US Firearms-More collectable?

Virginia Gentleman · September 06, 2006, 11:33:39 AM

What do you all think about USFAs getting more collectable and valuable over time? Since the introduction of short run models, some of them are now at a premium at shows. How about the Turnbull USFAs, will they hold/increase in value?

Doc Sunrise · September 06, 2006, 06:26:42 PM

I know that at the Pennsylvania's Gun Collector's Show in Monroeville that you can't find any USFA SAA's. One dealer stated if people started to sell USFA SAA's at shows that Colt's 3rd generations and Uberti's line up of Cowboy guns would not sell, and of course Ruger dealers just turn the other cheek.

As far as my own collection, I am going to need a gun cabinet just for my USFA Firearms. As far as collectability, well that is going to be difficult to assess since they are such great shooters not many are just sitting around for collection's sake, and the ones being used currently are still whipper snappers and a little too young for collectors to speculate on how much they will go up, but they will go up. So while you are waiting for values to go up, I recommend having some fun and go out and shoot! In a truly American spirit everyone could buy two USFA SAA's at a time, one to shoot and one to collect. Even so though, since timing is so good on USFA SAA's it may be hard to tell which is the shooter and which is the collector.

Capt. John Fitzgerald · September 06, 2006, 07:56:42 PM

Well said, Doc!

Virginia Gentleman · September 08, 2006, 11:07:47 PM

I agree with the shooting part and I do take mine to the range from time to time, but I really think putting a nice cased one away will be a good investment some day....

Doc Sunrise · September 09, 2006, 07:49:31 AM

I have been trying to obtain three SAA's in several particular set ups so I can shoot one and collect two. For example, I have three Gunslingers and three Case Colored Premiums in 4 3/4", 5 1/2", and 7 1/2" where I shoot the 5 1/2" and do not shoot the other two. My exception to this is I do not shoot any of my Inspector series SAA's but I do shoot all of my Rodeos. I believe that when a set includes unshot and shot guns it goes along way to show that the difference in the two is limited to normal wear from use which is very minimal in such fine made guns that the difference is very hard to tell. This makes the unshot guns just that much more cherry.

In the world of values or collectors, who knows what will strike people in such a way that they will be willing to pay top dollar for a firearm and raise its value over time, except that there are some proven ways to kill values that should be stayed away from. Colt's early third generations are so piss poor in workmanship, I have only one interest in them. To have just one to show the difference in a poorly made piece of *@%^ compared to a fine piece of American Quality such as that made from USFA. Colt has "corrected" many things recently over the years, but still just doesn't hit the mark. I was so dissapointed in Colt third generations I actually bought a Stampede, which I also now just use to compare its painted Case Colors to that of the real thing in my USFA SAA's. It also has that silly transfer bar thingy, which just doesn't hit the mark.

USFA SAA's do hit the mark as real American SAA's. They are made so well that the "Rampant Colt" from an earlier time, the time of the American West that is only original to America, can be heard when you pick a USFA SAA up. USFA SAA's and Colt's 1st and 2nd generations share some things and don't share in some others. They share that beautiful senasation of holding a fine piece of American Quality with curves and crisp edges that just melt into your hand, where Colt earlier generations can give you some chilly sensations dreaming of where it has been and what it did to tame the American West, but where USFA can give you the ability to have a new pristine piece made just your way so you can relive the American West.

As long as anyone who is alive, you know those of us who get all tingly when we pick up a beautiful SAA, and USFA SAA's come together, true American Quality that speaks of truly American history will be recognized, and for that people will be willing to pay a premium for such true Americana. Give it some time and values will go up, and up, and up!!

Virginia Gentleman · September 11, 2006, 02:00:23 PM

I couldn't agree more and I was thinking of a Henry Nettelton to put in an nice case to put away for the future.

drjldavis · June 23, 2007, 06:37:55 PM

What increases the value of anything collectable is a limited production and no longer in production. U.S. Firearms has already produced a few. Anyone familar with the black powder percussion revolvers that were produced many years back. I for one wish to buy as many of these as I can find. I have not been able to get any information from the company itself about what models were produced or the numbers produced. Anyone have any info.

North Bender · June 24, 2007, 02:14:28 AM

Well, since drjldavis resurrected this topic, I'll repeat something that I've posted on other forums and haven't had any responses to.

Rawhide Rio, this is in no way Colt bashing.

People keep writing that if you want a collectable SAA that holds its value you need to buy a Colt. However, I'd like an analysis of the resale value of any quality SAA. USFA, Freedom Arms, even good Italian clones - of any of the various SAAs, show me that the value significantly decreases over time. I can't even find a used USFA to purchase, but I would certainly buy one if I could find one in decent shape at a serious discount. They don't appear to be out there.

From what I've been able to see a used USFA holds its value extremely well. And I have to think that if you collect and keep one that hasn't been used it increase in value over time. (If you're capable of not shooting it!). An extremely well made firearm from a renowned manufacturer will hold its resale and can be expected to climb in value. Look at any comparable piece of art or machinery (such as a limited production car). I can't find any reasonable argument to the contrary.

I wish that people would respond to their various forums when this point is raised about Colts being the only collectable firearm.

Lash Batson · June 24, 2007, 01:29:06 PM

Since I got my USFA black powder frame SAA in Feb I've picked up a sequentially serialed pair of Rodeos off gunbroker.com right before the recent price increase. The Rodeos are great and I considered selling off the SAA to pay defray the cost of the Rodeos, but in the end just couldn't do it. The Single Action Army is such a beautiful gun I'm just going to keep it.

I think a good measure of the 'collectibility' is how few used guns you see on gunbroker or on the CAS Wire Classifieds. I did a search on the Wire and found just three recent offers for USFA sixguns; a pre-war, a gunslinger and a pair of nickle plated SAAs. Looks like the pair sold in just two days, but the other two have been hanging around the Wire for awhile which has surprised me because I think they are priced to move...

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71300

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71383

Hell if I had the extra dinero I'd pick up the pre-war, its a pretty gun.

— Lash Batson

Doc Sunrise · June 26, 2007, 11:42:24 AM

I have struggled with this question, and the problem is the term "collectible". A true "collectible" is something that has a limited production, whether production ceased, it was a lmited edition, or a unique edition of exclusive pieces. USFA does have some models that could fit this criteria, almost. Nobody knows for sure that they "broke the mold" on models that have been out of production, so it can not be said that production had a finite number.

My main problem I have with "collectible" is that it does not mean "value". There are hunks of junk out of production that have no value, but are deemed "collectible". Wierd things happen and because there is a widened audience of potential buyers thanks to the internet, some junk is bought at prices over their "Fair Market Value", and now it is deemed "more collectible".

Colts of the Blackpowder, 1st and 2nd generation era have a leg up on USFAs just because they are technically out of production, and are "collectible". There is no doubt that there are some wonderful pieces, but usually way out of reach for standard folks. Especially if we want to pay for something that we can really shoot todays lead out of. I admit I am a Colt collector, a true beginner at that, but their sheer Americana value and their soul inspiring feel is what got me started in loving old sixguns, and they let me imagine myself in the old West.

Then, one day I bought a beautiful gun I had never heard of, a USFA Premium 5 1/2" SAA that gave me that soul inspiring stir. Here it is in my hand, a traditionally and truely American made SAA that is an accurate model of the real 1st generation Colt SAA. After careful inspection, by God this thing is perfect! Inside and out! This piece is spilling over with Quality, Hand fitted smoothness, beautiful finish, traditional Case Colors that are priceless to look at, perfect measurements for absolutely superb accuracy, and grips that fit, I mean holly crap I can run my fingers over every inch and feel nothing but smoothness. Pinch me, better yet, let me have another.

Then someone said "you know those are not collectibles?" I said "what the hell do you mean, I have 16 of them in my collection". But, technically they were right. So, I call all of these "collected". Whether they are shooters or non-shooters, handled or non-handled, we've collected them among our collection. Because they are not technically "collectible", they can't be "more collectible". But they have value. In fact, alot of value. The main idea behind USFA was to build American made SAAs with old American made traditions, the way they used to. USFA has given our current generations something to be proud of, linking us back to something that is only American, the old West. And they have solid value because they are made with solid American Quality. And more importantly, USFA SAAs have a following, us. As long as USFA does not falter and give way to the "Quantity is better than Quality", which I don't believe they will, and we are patient enough to build a new generation of great American SAAs, they will become "more collected" and have "more value".

RRio · June 26, 2007, 02:08:30 PM

My take on the "collectors item" thing is this, I bought my USFAs to shoot. Now if I wanted an investment, I would have put that money into something that would have given me a better, faster and more secure return on it, like gold or real estate. It would have been the same if I had bought Colts. I don't buy guns for investments. I buy guns to enjoy and to play cowboy.

Deadeye Don · June 26, 2007, 04:57:45 PM

Quote from: Rawhide Rio on June 26, 2007, 02:08:30 PM
My take on the "collectors item" thing is this, I bought my USFAs to shoot. Now if I wanted an investment, I would have put that money into something that would have given me a better, faster and more secure return on it, like gold or real estate. It would have been the same if I had bought Colts. I don't buy guns for investments. I buy guns to enjoy and to play cowboy.

I couldnt agree more. Investing is what I have my 401k and realestate for. Firearms and CAS is how I stay sane. I dont buy guns to keep in the safe. I buy guns to shoot and add to my non-investment hobby. Safe shooting. Deadeye.

Doc Sunrise · June 26, 2007, 05:51:49 PM

That is why I said our "collected" firearms may be shooters or non-shooters. There are people like myself that enjoy shooting my USFA SAAs as well as tuck some special ones away. I hope that USFA SAAs continue to be purchased for both purposes as this keeps up demand and helps keep USFA in business as well as increase the overall value. You surely don't want to pay hard earned money for your shooters and find out before you leave the store they are considered worthless?

And, as far as investments go, you probably would be surprised to find that many firearms considered "collectibles" outpaced 401Ks, gold, stock market, and many other investments in actual returns.

drjldavis · June 26, 2007, 06:19:13 PM

I have two USFA black powder revolvers you might be interested in knowing about. They are both U.S. Patent Firearms marked before Colt put the screws to them about the name.

1860 Army is marked: Serial #130988

-ADDRESS U.S. PATENT HARTFORD CT. U.S. AMERICA - (Top Barrel) U.S. Patent (LtSd Frame)

1851 Navy is marked: Serial #5197

-ADDRESS U.S. PATENT HARTFORD CT. U.S. AMERICA - (Top Barrel)

1860 Army has Stag Grips fitted in their custom shop. Have original box, papers, and original invoices. 1851 Navy came in original box, also with papers, and extra cylinder. Absolutely top quality, much much better than any Colt. I was at the first Shot Show when the then, U.S. Patent Firearms introduced themselves with the most fantastic display of all the revolvers they proposed to make polished in the white. So perfectly polished that they appeared to be nickel plated.

I have not been able to get much information from USFA customer service about the black powder revolvers they did produce. I would appreciate help in this area so the section on these revolvers in the book being published by the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association (RPRCA) will be accurate and complete. Their web site is at: http://rprca.tripod.com

North Bender · June 28, 2007, 10:27:59 PM

Doc Sunrise,

That was a reasoned reply on page 1! Virginia Gentleman started this thread by asking about the collectability of USFA's, and also asked about USFA's holding their value over time. As you pointed out, those can be two very different takes on the worth of that pistol you prize.

My thought was that in terms of value, a used and well-maintained USFA will hold its worth in a ratio similar to a used, well-maintained Colt.

The collectability will be decided by Father Time.

I don't have any Safe Queens, and like Rawhide, Deadeye and others these possessions are for me to enjoy, not to list as my assets. However, I do harbour a small hope that my Pre-War will survive another generation or two in my family. That's the worth of this fine pistol to me.