Help needed - Conversion Ring ASM 1860 Army - building a Richards Conversion

[Long Johns Wolf]

Howdy to the fire. Since I don't have (access to) an original Colt Richards for comparison I have a question for the lucky ones who have the real pistol AND the ASM: How close is the ASM conversion ring technically and dimensionally to the real thing? Same question regarding the hammer but disregarding the lawyer safety.
My idea if they are really close to be (almost) correct and once sufficient spares for the Uberti RII's are available: building a Richards using the Uberti Richards II frame and cylinder, using the ASM conversion ring, hammer and barrel assembly. The latter will interchange, checked that out already.
What do you think? Any additional suggestions for such a project?
Thanks Bootsie

[Long Johns Wolf]

Giving this project further thought I am realizing I don't need to take the Uberti RII frame (and will not negativly affect availability of this pistol), can go with the readiy available RM Army frame/cylinder. They are identical.
Bootsie

[Fox Creek Kid]

If I'm not mistaken, the ASM "quasi" Richards conversions did not have the correct integral "lip" machined into the front of the conversion ring that a 1st Model Richards has.

[Fox Creek Kid]

As a note, I would wait until the Uberti Richards Type II conversions become common (the year 2010?  ) and simply have your German gunsmith/Maschinenbauer make you a 1st Model type ring & have him fit it. You can use the RM type gate and spring available now from VTI Gunparts here in the states. Bootsie, Sie schulden jetzt mir 1,000 Euros für eine Beratungsgebühr. 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thank you, Seth and Fox Creek Kid. I feared I would be receiving such comments related to the ASM.
FCK, that's an interesting proposition of yours. We should discuss over a couple of beers in October in Texas. We might start a business of transatlantic consulting.
Seriously I kind of got to dislike my ASM 1860 conversion because it is so wrong, but want to make as much use of the parts as possible, like old Sam Colt did. But you made it very clear that this approach is a no-no.
On the other hand I want to have a "more correct" Richards before Uberti is making one.
Therefore, the objective seems to be finding a German collector with an original Richards who is willing to let me have the pistol to have the ring copied by my gunsmith Klaus Mumme, and take it from there, right?
Bootsie

[Fox Creek Kid]

Bootsie, have your gunsmith look at (and measure) your new Richards Type II conversion ring and go from there. All he needs to do is duplicate it WITH the aforementioned "lip" that the 1st Model Richards has and integral sight on top. If you don't have the McDowell book I can give you the difference between the two. The integral "lip" on the 1st Model Richards conversion ring projects 0.0312 inches on the front end. I would simply wait until the Type II become commonplace and take one to your gunsmith and have him duplicate the the existing ring WITH the integral lip and also with the integral sight in top of the ring. You would be Euros ahead my friend as everything else will be done on the existing revolver. I am scared to ask what a top notch German machinist charges per hour. 125 Euros? 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thanks Fox Creek Kid, for the additional info. No, I don't have the McDowell bible. Would thus appreciate if you could let me have the different specs. If drawings of the Richards conversion ring were available that you can scan & mail I owe you!
Regarding gunsmith fees in Germany: I am probably a lucky guy because my smith Klaus Mumme is booth master gunsmith, instrument mechanic, competitive CAS shooter and he loves Western guns. So, he is familiar with what cowboys like you and me require. But since he is a one man show and his is a start-up operation mit machine shop, though, he is not charging too much, like € 40,00/h and he is willing to work on a project base fee. Established guys would easily set you back € 70,00 to 100,00 ($ 133,00 at today's exchange rate) per hour and they know nothing about cowboy guns.
Now I have to find me another Uberti RII with 8" barrel in .44 Colt and start to technically turning back the time to "RI"!. But I will not start looking before the end of the year. Promise!
Thanks again.
Bootsie

[Fox Creek Kid]

Bootsie, Ottawa Creek Bill is far more versed in the fabrication of these than I. There are many photos here of his work and I'm sure he would answer any questions your gunsmith has. 

[Goody]

Bootsie, what part of Texas are you visiting in October? There are a couple of big matches here at that time and we would love to see you if you can work it in. If you didn't mind shooting lowly Open Tops I could even outfit you for a shoot.

The Comanche VAlley Vigilantes will host the Southwest Regionals on October 10-14

http://www.comanchevalley.org/homeframesnew.htm

And Badlands Bar 3 will have Comin' At 'Cha on the 26-28

http://www.badlandsbar3.com/

Don't be bashfull!

[Long Johns Wolf]

Goody, that's mighty kind of you to pointing me to these matches. I love to shoot your OT's, they are my favorite cowboy pistols. Texas hospitality at its best, that's why the missis and me love to go to the the Lonestar State.
However, our schedule for October is pretty loaded with 2 shoots squeezed in in the Houston and Amarillo area. The missis will declare war if I were sneaking away for more cowboy action fun. Hopefully next year.
And make sure to give me a shout when you are in the Frankfurt/Germany area: you can break some targets with my OT's.
Thanks again!
Bootsie

[Fox Creek Kid]

Bootsie, if you're going to be near Amarillo you NEED to put this in your itinerary. 


http://www.hutchinsoncountymuseum.org/AdobeWalls.htm

It's about 44 miles from Amarillo. 16 miles from Amarillo is Canyon, TX with the incredible Panhandle Plains Museum which is chock full of original buffalo hunters' items and many firearms.

http://www.panhandleplains.org/

[Goody]

Allrighty then! What clubs you gonna shoot in the Houston / Amarillo area's?

[Long Johns Wolf]

OK Goody, Tejas Pistoleros Sept 30 (with jet lag right after the long haul over the Atlantic), Canadian River Regulators Annual Shoot Oct. 13/14.
The museum seems to be pretty close to the Bar H Ranch where I stay for some horseback riding and the CRR shoot. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Fox Creek Kid.
Bootsie