The Repro Remington Model 1863 Percussion Army Revolver

[Mick Archer]

   Howdy Pards!

    I was just asked a question on the M1858 Remington reproductions which are actually the Remington Model 1863 Percussion Army or Navy Revolver.

  1858 Beals-Remington's are pretty scarce, and I don't have any decent piggers to share.

  But here is one...

 

  In brief...   ;-)  :-)  :-)
   
  Fordyce Beals designed and received a patent in September of 1858 for his revolver, but did not produce it himself- instead E. Remington & Sons did.

  Since Remington went on to produce their "own" version first in 1861 and then again in 1863 (shoot the Remington M1875 Army looks like the 1858 Beals' Army revolver for that matter too) the Remington M1861 Army/Navy and M1863 Army/Navy are very similar)

  If you look at the bottom Revolver, it is an 1858 Beals-Remington.  The differences between it and the Remington M1863 ("New Model Army" which is what the reproductions are) are:

1.  The barrel threads are covered by the frame on the Beals, but exposed on the Remington as the frame is "cut out."  (IMHO, this is a quick way to tell the Beals from the later Remingtons.

2.  There are no safety notches between the nipples on the Beals.

3.  the loading lever or ramrod lever "web" or "fin" is smaller on the Beals giving it a slightly different overall profile than the Remington's

4.  The loading lever or rammer lever must be lowered to extract the cylinder pin.  This was changed in the M1861, but brought back in the M1863.   

5.  The M1861 the arbor head is forward of the frame not inlet into the frame as with the Beals and the M1863.

6.  The loading lever or rammer lever catch device is mortised into the barel rather than threaded- although this changed on later Beals.

7.  The hammer spur is different, and the hammer is at a lesser angle on the M1863

8.  The front sight is a mortised cone on the Beals and Remington M1861 but a screwed in pinched front sight on the Remington M1863

9.  The M1861 has a longer frame and longer grip.

10.  The frame on the Beals (and early M1861's) in front of the hammer is flat.  On the M1863 it is bevelled down for a small portion.

11.  The recoil shield portion of the right side of the frame is scooped out larger for ease of capping the nipples on the Beals and M1861 than it is on the M1863.

12.  Minor "evoutionary" switches and changes (such as front sights, etc. ) made into production runs so noted as features "blended."

  IMHO, where the popular misconception with "M1858" comes in is with the patent stampings.

  The 1858 Beals is stamped in two lines:
 
  "BEALS PATENT SEPT. 14, 1858/MANUFACTURED BY REMINGTON'S ILION, NEW YORK"

   The Beals was never officially designated as "Model 1858."

  The Remington M1861's were stamped in two lines:

  "PATENTED DEC. 17, 1861/MANUFACTURED BY REMINGTON'S, ILION, N.Y."

   I do not know WHY Remington changed the patent info "back" to three lines on the M1863:

   "PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858/E.REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK, U.S.A./NEW MODEL. 

  as the 1858 pattent was for the "Beals" and the 1861 patent was for the changes and improvements on the Beal that made the M1861 (in 1863 called the "Old Model Army and Navy") and M1863 (called the "New Model Army and Navy").  May be F. Beals sold the rights, I am not sure.

  At any rate, I believe collectors, hobbyists, and the Italians saw/see the "1858" patent date on the Remington Model 1863 Percussion Army Revolver and want/do to make it a "Model 1858" when it wasn't/isn't.

       

     Mick Archer
     Heretic Posse

   

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Euroarms Repro's of the 1858 New Army are based on the Remington-Beals Old Model Army,(covered breech threads) but they have safety notches in the cylinders.

The Model 1861 Old Army was based on the Remington-Beals (it's forerunner) and used that frame and it's own rammer lever that was cut so the cylinder pin could be pulled out without lowering the rammerlever(Army didn't accept this and they were returned to the factory and a philister head screw attached to the rammer lever in fron of the cylinder pin. There is speculation also, that safety notches were cut in the cylinders at this time also but I have not seen proof of that because some with the philister head screws still have cylinders without the notches.).

The transition (blended) guns used Old Army bbl(two line address) and the German silver front sights and the NMA frame  with the scooped out portion at the breech threads and rammer lever, also these transition guns place the breech two threads further past the cylinder pin mtg, than does the NMA which has the bbl flush with the cylinder Pin housing. Thus the cylinders of the transition models have shorter cylinders than does the NMA. The transition models end somewhere around the 30,000 S/N. I thought they ended sooner, but just sold a Civilain Transition gun that was in the 25,000 S/N range. I have seen a transition model in that s/n range.

I have a transition model Conversion coming this week and I'll check the S/N on it to see where that lies. I also have a NMA conversion that is in the 75,000 s/n range it is a full blown NMA, with 3 line address, new type front sight and NMA frame.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Velly Interesting!

As much as I love the looks of the NMAs, that Beals 1858 has a cool look of its own.

Half Chas., does Euroarms still make their version?  I might have to keep my eve out for one, if they do.

[Bull Schmitt]

Pards,

This looks like info that would be a great addition to the SCORRS web site. With your permission I would like to add it and the photo to the web site. If you would like to rewrite it before hand I will used whatever you feel is appropriate and credit you as the author(s).

Bull Schmitt
SCORRS and GAF webmaster

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Bull!

   Please feel free to use the info as you like (info is for sharing, even heresies).
  Thanks for asking!

   Oh, it has been too long and I do not recall where the picture came from.      

     Mick Archer
     Remington M1875 Shootist

[sharps54]

I'm pretty sure the photo came from this site, http://armscollectors.com/mgs/an_army_and_two_navies_pt_3.htm very interesting 3 part article on this revolvers.
Mild Myles

[Will Ketchum]

 A guy who worked for me told me they had an old cap and ball revolver in the family and was wondering what it was.  From his description I assumed it was an Italian gun or at best an original Remington.  When he brought it in it turned out to be a Beal's .  They had played with it as kids and the nipples were all peened over.  There wasn't any finish left but I sure would like to own that gun.  Unfortunately it wasn't for sale after  I told them what they had.

Will Ketchum

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Pards!

  Nice article, thanks for sharing!

  But nope, I had not seen that article before, so the image did not come from there unless by yet another site's use of it possibly..

  (There is a mistake in one of the image description.  The "right hand" of the Beals is not a Beals. )

   Mick Archer