Is it a Colt a Reeeeeeeel Colt???

[Paladin UK]

My local gunshop has a rather nice Colt`Signature Series` .44...



Now Here`s the Biggie..............

I Know that its a `Colt` sold by Colt BUT is  a REEEEEEEL Colt that has American Steel (Like Roogers). or, is it really jest another Clone sold by Colt with Italian steel that is softer

Paladin (Whats gotsta know ) UK

[Major 2]

Well I don't know the scale of Rockwell C hardness....

But the Colt Signature Series or also known as are 3rd. Gen and were made by different assemblers out of Uberti forgings and sold with Colts name. (these will have the Sam Colt Signature on the backstrap)
Some were nice & some were lacking in fit and finish.

2nd generations (Blackpowder Series ) were made by Colt @ Colt these also used Uberti forgings, but springs and most moving parts were Colt US manufacture.
The finish was also done here in the US at Colt.
Just like USFA did when they started , Uberti parts in white... Fit and finish (springs) in the USA.


Truth is the ordnance steel used in BP Guns (Italian) is way stronger than original 19th. century Steels.
Also the Stainless in some Italian Remington offerings is harder than the SS in Rugers.
Harder does not necessarily mean stronger.

If the price is right on the 1860 (I don't know UK price & availabilty) and it is nice, I'd jump on it.

I own three 2nd Gen's  2 60's  & 51 and I've owned them are anywhere between 15  and 25 years.
I've had 2 3rd Gen Sig's, I sold for more than I paid as their desired value increase.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Pard,

I guess I hafta ask, if the price is indeed right, do they have a pair of 'em.  You know you will need two. . .

DD-DLoS

[El Paso Pete]

IMHO, the signature series (3rd generation) is an Uberti with Colts name on it.  I have one of each and they are the same in fit, finish, etc.   The secound generation is another story.  Here is a link to the signature series.  http://pdmall.com/COLTBP/coltin~1.htm

Now, if ya want a real Colt there's one on Ebay for ya.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6591652123&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AVRI&rd=1

[St. George]

St. George's Notes XVI - 'Real' BP Colts...
« on: April 07, 2005, 10:38:02 AM »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many C&WAS folks carry and use cap and ball revolvers as a part of their Impression - and with good reason - there were thousands available - beyond what was carried during 'the War', and brought home by returning veterans.

After the Civil War - they were available through the sales of Government surplus, and for someone headed  West - they were fairly cheap.

The big 1860 Army Colts - and the smaller 1851 Navys - and all of the rest - saw service far past the their initial Military service and well into the Cartridge Era - many eventually being converted for cartridge use, after the Rollin White patent for bored-through cylinders elapsed.
Of course - this was true of many other guns - but the Colt was more or less ubiquitous - most likely because of its military connotation and the subsequent familiarity with it.

In the early 1970's - Colt decided to reproduce much of their original product line - starting with the famed 'Squareback' Model 1851 Navy and continuing on to the big Dragoons - beautifully-made guns, all - with the rich Colt Blue, and distinctive color-case-hardening.

Much has been speculated about as to the 'actual' manufacturers of these fine revolvers - and this link will illuminate much of the history behind their recent production.

A note - this article really concerns the 'true' 2d Generation Colt Black Powder revolver.
Though the  later 'Signature Series' is touched upon - it doesn't seem to have the 'cachet' of being a 'real' Colt...

The article was written by Dennis Adler - who wrote "Metallic Cartridge Conversions" - a worthwhile book for the folks interested in the time frame immediately following the Civil War.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/cap_ball/index.html

I'm sure you'll find it of interest.



Scouts Out!

[Yankee John]

This one be real- And mine! 


John

[Paladin UK]

Fer DD..........
Yup he`s got two but they aint a pair, the other ones............


Make :  Colt Signature Series
Model :  Trapper 1862 Pocket
Type :  Black powder pistol
Mechanism :  Revolver 
Calibre :  .36 

Fer Major 231

Price :  £400 =US $706!!

Think that is a fair price??  I think its a bit over the top!! Whats your `pinion?

Paladin (What jest lurvs the Holy Black ) UK

[Major 2]

Fer DD..........
Yup he`s got two but they aint a pair, the other ones............


Make :  Colt Signature Series
Model :  Trapper 1862 Pocket
Type :  Black powder pistol
Mechanism :  Revolver 
Calibre :  .36 

Fer Major 231

Price :  £400 =US $706!!

Think that is a fair price??  I think its a bit over the top!! Whats your `pinion?

Paladin (What jest lurvs the Holy Black ) UK

in a word ?...... yep !
that's about $256 - $300 over the top....

Now, I don't know how plentiful (third Gen.'s) they are in the UK, but you find then here for $400-450 and you might still haggle them down.

I see Second Gen's in the range your talking , in fact, I know of an early to mid 70's
  Colt "C" Series Navy model .36 caliber, silver backstrap and square back trigger guard. "C" series Royal Blue barrel and cylinder, color case hardened frame, loading lever, plunger, and hammer, silver plated brass backstrap and square back trigger guard. The serial number is 8308. The revolver comes with the original box and papers, as well as the original wrapping paper. This is a low serial numbered revolver of the first re-introduction cap-n-ball Colt, and seldom seen with the original box. Of course, the revolver is unfired. Due to the age of the revolver the silver is tarnished, due to the thin silver coating we have made no effort to polish the silver.
$889.00.


I like that little 1862 Pocket though...

[Paladin UK]

Re Price......

Unfortunatly, on this side of the pond...... .

All and I mean All Pistolas,Rifles, Scatterguns etc. have a $=£ markup on them!! and that is across the board by All imported firearms by All Gundealers here in the UK

I think the term..Stuffed like a Turkey!!! comes ta mind!!!

Soooooooo, iffn I wanna 3rd sig model I`m gonna have ta pay that sort of dosh!

Or, jest buy me a Uberti fer £195.00!!...$344.059  LESS!!

Paladin (Whats reeeel ) UK

[Major 2]

I'm sure your lawmakers (like our feds) have all the bases loaded for international shipping.
Meaning, someone might find one over here and sent it to ya.
Duties and restrictions would probably make it cost prohibitive though.


being it's 3rd Gen.  I'd compair it to the Uberti for Fit and Finish ( unless the Colt address is that important to you) on the other hand you can get 2 Uberti's for the cost.

[Smokin Gun]

Alot a good info on here but one more fact is that the 3rd Generation Colt came to the U.S. unfitted as castings and part...that's how Colt got around the proof marks from assembled imports. They were carefully fitted at the Colt Black Powder Co. in New York.  And I can only really tell you about my Colt Signature 3rd generation Colt Dragoon. I compared it to Uberti and It had a much smoother action immediatly noticable. Case hardening looked better and bluing somewhat deeper. Fit was excellant. I'm sure differant guns may vary and I may have got lucky. Got a good price with an R&D Drop-in Conversion in .45LC ..  the Conversion is for sale $180.

[Bisbee Bradley]

Hey - I think I just bought that 1851 Second Gen Colt ya'all were talkin' about about a year ago...unfired, original box, original wrapping paper, light wear in the silver patina on the brass - a bit less than 889.00 dollars though. Condition is claimed to be excellent (other then the patina wear) - guess we'll find out for sure when it gets here.

My question is - considering the "desirebility" and "authenticity" and "increasing value" of the Generation 2 - what is the collectibility status of the series (if there is one) and would engraving the gun (most likely in period engraving) add to or take away from its desireability and value in either the short or long term?  I'm getting ready to engrave my Uberti 1858 .44 (also probably in period engraving) and was looking at Colts and Remmies and other repop BP revolvers for my next project when I came across this 2nd genner. I figured it would be a unique addition to my vault - I just can't decide if I should engrave it or not...

[St. George]

The triggerguard and backstrap on the early Second Generation 1851 Navy was silver plated, and pretty heavily at that.

When I got mine, a few years back - the silver had oxidized to a rich blue, causing potential buyers to think it was a standard clone and keeping it unsold, and undervalued.

It polished off beautifully...

These guns are collectible, and rising prices are reflecting that.

When a firearm's engraved - typically, it's done 'in the white' - and before final finishing and fitting.

That way - everything mates perfectly and any casehardening that needs to be done can happen.

Engraving it after it's a 'finished' piece will necessitate drawing the original casehardening to give a 'soft' surface - then followed by a proper refinishing and re-casehardening.

Of course - it could be plated.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

in a word ?...... yep !
that's about $256 - $300 over the top....

Now, I don't know how plentiful (third Gen.'s) they are in the UK, but you find then here for $400-450 and you might still haggle them down.

I see Second Gen's in the range your talking , in fact, I know of an early to mid 70's
  Colt "C" Series Navy model .36 caliber, silver backstrap and square back trigger guard. "C" series Royal Blue barrel and cylinder, color case hardened frame, loading lever, plunger, and hammer, silver plated brass backstrap and square back trigger guard. The serial number is 8308. The revolver comes with the original box and papers, as well as the original wrapping paper. This is a low serial numbered revolver of the first re-introduction cap-n-ball Colt, and seldom seen with the original box. Of course, the revolver is unfired. Due to the age of the revolver the silver is tarnished, due to the thin silver coating we have made no effort to polish the silver.
$889.00.


I like that little 1862 Pocket though...

It was this post in jan. perhaps it is sold already.

I usually buy the cheapest Virgin Olive Oil i can find, but the little bottle I have now is pompeian Extra Virgin Olive Oil.