smokeless loads for 56-50 ?

[tommy4toes]

hello the camp -

I'm interested in trying some smokeless in my original Spencer. Do y'all have any loads you could share? Also, what do y'all think about Trail Boss ? Looks like it might be a good powder to me, volume wise anyways.
Tommy Bonnett
New Mexico

[Hell-Er High Water]

I tried to find a response that I posted several month ago but I don't seem to be able to find it.  Basically what it said was that I had tried Unique, SR 4759, IMR 4198 and AA 5744 with less than satisfactory results.  Some were just not accurate and some were very dirty.  The AA 5744 was probably the dirtiest of the lot.  When I tried IMR 4227 I finally got some good results.

What I finally settled on for a smokeless load is:

23.5 grains of IMR 4227

335 grain bullet sized 0.512" and lubed with my homemade smokless lube

Starline 56-50 cases

Winchester WLR, large rifle primers

The IMR 4227 comes close to filling the case so this may one thing that contributes to it's better results.

These are used in my Taylor's reproduction Spencer carbine so I am not sure how they would work in your original.  For your original, you are on your own.

This at least gives you some background on what has and has not worked for me.

HHW

[tommy4toes]

Ok sounds good y'all, thanks. Any thoughts as to the Trail Boss powder? Seems to me it would be perfect, but I have no way of determining pressures.
Tommy Bonnett
New Mexico

[Four-Eyed Buck]

IMR did have some data posted for rifle caliber cartridges with Trail Boss. You's probably have to talk to them or Birdshot at Hodgdon about the 56-50........Buck

[Harve Curry]

This link :
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,2891.0.html
has data on TrailBoss, 2400, Unique,  4227 powders, and more.

I have used up to 17gr of 2400 powder, with .5gr of polyfiber fill tuft to keep the powder down. 350gr. Bullet weight(.520" dia.) at about 1100fps.

I don't know what the pressure is and guess it's about 20,000psi., going by the chronographed velocity, primer signs, no leading, and easy extraction.

This has worked good in my original Spencer for many years but Use this info at your own risk.

[Trooper Lennox]

Howdy,

I just tried out a load yesterday,that I saw in this forum posted by Dakota Widowmaker (I think) for Trailboss powder.  It was for 9.2 gr. behind a 340 gr. Lyman slug, sized to .502.  My OAL is 1.58".  Feeding is exellent.  The load gives virtually no expansion to the case.  Recoil was mild.  Primers showed no flattening.  The weather here in New Hampshire was less than ideal, but offhand at 50 yds. accuracy appeared to be satisfactory.  I liked the load so much, that I just loaded another 50 rounds.  I contacted IMR Powder to see if they would affirm the load.  They gave a non-commital reply that they did not have a test barrel for the 56-50, and would therefore not give a recommendation.  Unless someone else gives me a good reason not to go with this load, I'm sticking with it.

Trooper Lennox

[geo]

my experience is that you are playing with fire using smokeless powder of any kind or amount in an original spencer. the 56-50 is a low pressure low velocity round and the action is not the strongest design. add to that the general age of the piece and you have the makings of breech failure if stressed too far. i use 30 gr. of black powder or a single pyrodex 30 gr. pellet in my loads for both my original and my repro. good luck. geo.

[Two Flints]

Hi Hell Er High Water is this it?            Two Flints

Response Posted by Hell Er High Water on May 10, 2005

Here is what I have experienced so far with smokeless loads in the 56-50.  Since there was (is) no load data available, I started out with low end and reduced 50-70 loads and tested them in my 50-70 carbine.  Since the 50-70 is basically an elongated 56-50 I figgured that this was a good place to start.  XMP-5744, IMR 4198 and SR 4759, while providing reasonable accuracy, are all very dirty, leaving so much residue in the chamber that it had to be wiped between shots in order to chamber the next cartridge.  My best results have been with Unique and IMR 4227.  While both burn fairly clean, the IMR 4227 has given better results than the Unique and in the loads that I use it nearly fills the case to the base of the bullet.  In addition, it meters through a powder measure with great accuracy from charge to charge.  The best load so far has been 23.5 grains of IMR 4227 with a 335 grain bullet, cast out of 20:1 alloy.  This has given 2", 5 shot groups at 50 yards and I'm still trying to refine it some.  The bullet is from a Lee, 500 grain mould that I modified by turning off 2 grooves and two bands from the base.  This provides a bullet with a large flat nose.   I didn't want too pointed a bullet in a magazine right next to my face.  I'm using a homemade lube on them, sized 0.512", with Winchester WLR, large rifle primers in Starline brass.  I hope that this helps and at least gives you a starting point for your smokless loads.
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[Hell-Er High Water]

Two Flints,

That's the one that I was looking for.  Thanks for finding it.

HHW

[tommy4toes]

thanks for all the help fellas - keep making smoke !!!
Tommy4Toes

[Ed Clintwood]

I've found the 1.9cc scoop from Lee will throw about 9.4 grs of Trail Boss which gives me good accuracy at 25yards (don't have a longer range just yet) this is under either the 350 gr bullet from a Lee mold (DW's) or the Lyman 512139.  I think DW's bullet is a little more accurate but I'll continue to chced

[Crazeyiven]

Trooper Lennox-

I may have missed is somewhere....which rifle are you using....Taylor, Romano, original, etc?

Thanks

David