Identify This Medal

[Fox Creek Kid]

What is the medal beside the Medal of Honor on the chest of Genl. E.A. Carr in the photo?


http://www.nps.gov/archive/foda/Fort_Davis_WEB_PAGE/About_the_Fort/Summit_Springs.htm

[Will Dearborn]

I've been researching the man...
But all I can find is mention of the MEdal of Honor.  He graduated from West Point... could it be a West Pointer thing?

Long days and pleasant nights,
Will

[St. George]

Medals, et al...
« on: October 15, 2005, 10:01:44 AM »     

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I originally wrote this as two of my 'St. George's Notes' - and thought that moving them here for general information might be of interest.

Hope so.

A large number of folks are portraying Military men as well as Veterans of the Civil War, the Indian Wars and frequently both.

There are even those who portray members of the 1st Volunteer Cavalry - TR's "Rough Riders" - though there certainly seem to be far more "portrayers' than there were "originals" of that organization...

This brings up a point that needs to be made when creating your Impression.

The Wearing of Military Medals...

In essence - you don't get to wear any.

The Army of the pre-1900 time frame had the "Certificate of Merit" - a paper document given solely to Enlisted men and established in 1847, during the War with Mexico and issued until 1905.
The "Medal of Honor" - not the "Congressional Medal of Honor", by the way - was the country's first metallic decoration.

Originally created for the Navy on December 21, 1861, the Army followed with its variant six months later, on July 12, 1862.
Though differing in design and created by two separate Acts of Congress, Army and Navy Medals of Honor are usually referred to as "Medal of Honor" as if they were one decoration.

And this brings up another distinction - there are "Service Medals" and there are "Decorations".
"Service Medals" would be awarded for Campaign Participation, while a "Decoration" would be awarded for a specific act.

Going back - there are two Army Medals of Honor that could possibly be worn by your impression - the 1862-1896 design, with a "flag-styled ribbon" and the 1896-1904 design with a striped ribbon - the difference being the ribbon syle.

After the mass distribution of these medals during the Civil War a Board was held to determine their validity of issue and many were rejected.

More on that if it's warranted...

Read "A Shower of Stars" for an insight.

The various Campaign medals - while "neat" and attractive and more important - available - weren't authorized until well after the turn of the Century.

Army
Civil War Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Indian Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Spanish Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Spanish War Service - Authorized 9 JUL 18
Army of Cuban Occupation - Authorized 28 JUN 15
Army of Puerto Rican Occupation - Authorized 28 JUN 15
Philippine Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Philippine Congressional - Authorized 29 JUN 06

Navy and Marines
Civil War Campaign - Authorized 27 JUN 08
Spanish Campaign - Authorized 27 JUN 08
Philippine Campaign - Authorized 27 JUN 08
China Relief - Authorized 27 JUN 08(service from 1900 - 1901)

Now this isn't to say that you can't wear something on your uniform - because there are guys out there right now looking at studio portraits of be-uniformed men, bedecked with all manner of finery, and they're getting all worked up.

Slow down, Trooper...

The finery that you see are "Society Medals" - those medals that one would buy (and once in a great while, earn) from the Military Society or Veteran's organization that they happened to belong to later in life.

A lot of those photos are of GAR men.

There were all manner of Veteran's Badges available - from the "Ladder Badge" depicting on bars clasped together by rings - the Company, the numeric designator, the State and the type of unit - "Co. F" - "2d" - "Iowa" - "Vol Cav" - complete with a miniature of a Corps Badge suspended below, or maybe a bullion tassle.

Or perhaps a "Shield" - with the veteran's name above on the scroll and his unit-specific information suspended below.

There could be the traditional "GAR" badge or a more impressive one if you portray an Officer in that organization and as time went on almost every old vet got that chance, as the membership died off.

Then, there would be badges from the "Society Armies" - "The Society Army of the Tennessee" or of the "Cumberland" or "Potomac", or maybe the "Union Veteran's League", and even the "Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States" - an organization of ex-Union officers.

The South had the "United Confederate Veterans" - not as well-developed an organization as the GAR, but surely as powerful in Southern States.

For more - including pictures - see my articles in "North-South Trader's Civil War"- Vol XXII, No. 5, September-October 1995

These were all politically strong veteran's organizations - the fore-runners of our present American Legion and VFW and DAV, and membership was encouraged.

This was also a time of wide-spread Lodge membership and those Lodges also had their badges that show up in photographs as well.

The point is - when developing your impression of a Military man or of a Veteran, you can do plenty to enhance it without resorting to temptation.

There are large numbers of original GAR/UCV items available that can be used in a lapel or on a watch fob.

There's even a flask that you can find once in awhile and it adds to your "look", and a lot of men carried (and enjoyed) a 'touch of the creature...'

Most all of the Campaign and Service Medals cited came about long after a serving soldier had ended his military career, yet he was eligible for one and surely deserved one - so how to get it?

Well, let me tell you...

If the servicemember was by some chance still on Active Duty - and some were - the specific medal was requested through channels, using his Service Record Book as proof, and issued at an appropriate ceremony.

These medals were numbered on their rim (12345) (later-issue - No.12345) and were Government-issued items.

But what about the guy who'd retired or merely got out?

Simple - if he wanted one - he could buy one...

Upon presenting his proof of service to the Philadelphia Mint (often, he did this through the good offices of the Post Office) - he could apply to purchase a mint-struck medal no different from the issued item, save for the rim numbering that now featured the marking "MNo." - for "Mint Number" - thus, his medal would read MNo. 12345.

The issue medals can be researched, but for the most part, the Mint-numbered one's can't, so it's important that you look for any and all other documentation when buying one.

And as to that - they're faked and have been since the '30's, so beware and know your seller.

GAR medals are numbered as well - indicating an "official" badge, made from captured Confederate cannon.

It used to be an "inspectable item" at a GAR meeting when one of the ranking officers came to call, because the Veteran could buy an un-numbered one a little cheaper from an unlicensed vendor, and they frowned on doing that.

The Government continued to produce those early Campaign and Service Medals until late WWII - for the last surviving vets and for their families.

I've got a Civil War Campaign Medal - boxed - that's from a 40's Contract.

Alas - none are left, having been disposed of in the late '60's.

If a family wants some tangible memento from the Government, they'll get a Certificate - nothing more.

A side note.

During the early stages of WWI as senior men were landing in France, the French thought that there were a number of "Legion d Honneur" recipients amongst the newly-arriving Americans.
The French decoration features a Red ribbon, with Red edges - just like our Indian War Medal ribbon did...

We added two Black vertical stripes to our medal to avoid embarrassment and confusion, but if you happen to ever see a Government-issue, Indian Campaign medal with an all-Red ribbon - look reverently - it's one of the earliest ones...

If you do happen to want to see one - coupled with a Spanish Campaign with a Silver Gallantry Star on its first-pattern ribbon as well, and numbered to B Company's First Sergeant of the 10th Cavalry - more and more, it looks like a display's in order, some day...

As to the wearing of an 'original' GAR Medal - look for one of the un-numbered ones.

From a collector's standpoint - they're an interesting facet - but not highly prized - yet.

Wearing one of those will save the one that belonged to your Veteran ancestor.


Good Luck!

Scouts Out!

[Fox Creek Kid]

Anybody know what the medal is?

[Lone Gunman]

What is the medal beside the Medal of Honor on the chest of Genl. E.A. Carr in the photo?

It's a trick question!     

General Carr isn't wearing the Medal of Honor in that photo. He retired from the Army in Feb 1893 but wasn't awarded the MOH until Jan of the following year. The medal in the photo is the GAR medal, which is similar in appearance:

[Fox Creek Kid]

By jove you're right!! So what's the other medal my numismatist friend? 

[Lone Gunman]

By jove you're right!! So what's the other medal my numismatist friend? 

Well...obviously the other medal is also NOT the Medal of Honor.   


Now, if the original question had been, "What is the medal beside the Grand Army of the Republic medal on the chest of Genl. E.A. Carr in the photo?"  my answer would have been:

The Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States, of which General Carr was the Missouri Commandery, but...that wasn't the question.   

[Fox Creek Kid]

There's only room for one weisenheimer here, BUDDY!!! 

[Lone Gunman]

There's only room for one weisenheimer here, BUDDY!!! 

You'll be missed.   

[Fox Creek Kid]

Thanks, George. By the way, did you change your avatar photo? I don't remember your vest being that bright.

[Lone Gunman]

So is the MOLLUS the right answer?   
I was just guessing...the photo was only clear enough to be confident in ruling out the MOH. 

[Fox Creek Kid]

You don't think I would have said thanks for a wrong answer did you, Einstein? 

[Lone Gunman]

Oh Hell, I though you were expressing your gratefulness that you would be missed....which, by the way, doesn't take effect until you're gone.   

What else can I enlighten you on Grasshopper?