$ amount to be competitive?

[SIR WILLIAM]

I was talking over not the initial start up equipment but, the competitive costs with some pards.  We wondered if CAS is a rich mans game today.  It is not terribly expen$ive to start out.  To become competitive though, it seems that short strokes in rifles and Rugers are becoming common, action jobs are common in shotguns and nothing is out of the box factory specifications anymore.  A honest question therefore comes to light.  How much money being spent is really needed?  Is it money wasted or wellspent?

[Doc Shapiro]

Really needed? Just money for practice ammo, range membership/fees, and time.  30-40,000 rounds a year will get ya started.  Wanna be an instant competitor?  Shoot half a million rounds of ammo out of your guns and practice gun to gun transitions.

All the mods to your guns won't help if you don't spend the money on ammo and time on practice.

The gun mods add confidence and pleasure to the practice. 

Basic action work to insure reliability is really what is needed.

Doc

[SIR WILLIAM]

I agree with your analysis Doc.  I am seeing more people show up with basic (barely) costume, jump boots and thousands of dollars worth of firearms. They usually hop out of Jaguar XJ-8s and seem to be much more common these days.  I am not disparaging their finessed firearms.  The problem is,  they have no idea of safety, they have 0 military experience, they can't tell a hi-base shell from a sparkplug.  They do have a ton of money invested in their firearms.  They are eager and learn fast but, generally must be untrained first.  We refer to gunshop commandos often.  These shooters seem to be internet cowboys.  They are good folks when you get to know them.  They just show up at the range with expensive gunsmith tuned firearms and treat them as toys.  They have come out to play.  I keep thinking of Ralphie, the fisnet stockinged leg lamp and the flagpole.  Seriously,  they can't quite grasp that their toy is a weapon and can kill.  It seems that we are creating an image of spend money, spend more money, buy a $10,000.00 RV parking spot and have fun.  Keep spending money while you are having fun.  Did I mention that money should be spent?  (soapbox rant over)

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I agree with Doc. Basic action work is needed to insure the equipment will keep running at the pace we push 'em. After that, what really makes the difference is practice. All the money available won't substitute for it. To improve, my butt has to get out there on the range and lob lead. Lots of it.

[Micheal Fortune]

Well I'm on the other end of the money scale Sir William,

I tend bar for a living and scratch for every round of practice ammo I can come up with.  My guns are what they are, part of the family, and I'm always looking for new dependents but none of them have action jobs on them, at least none of them gone to the gun smith.  I break them down, clean them up, stone off the rough edges and call it good.

My dress isn't complete or authentic as it should be but as time goes by it's getting better.  And for around here it's just fine.

I don't mind those people that your are talking about.  "gunshop commandos" because like you said "They are good folks when you get to know them".  Although  you don't see many of them around here.

The fact that they showed up and are trying is the importaint part and just because they have a Indy race rifle don't mean they can drive it very fast.

Everyone is absolutly right, if you have to budget your money, then spend it in ammo and the time to make it go down range.

A gun nut is born that way, it may come later in life to some people but you all have to addmit when someone walks by your gun cart and says "hey, look at that" and starts asking you questions you feel good.

[Camille Eonich]

I am seeing more people show up with basic (barely) costume, jump boots and thousands of dollars worth of firearms. 

From my experience the costuming part is the most difficult part.  Guns are fairly easy to acquire and smithing work is pretty easy to get done.  Clothes, though are more personal and there are more choices about what kind of character you want to portray.  Once you have figured that out, if you ever do, then finding the clothes that fit that image that you have of yourself, in the 1800s, can be overwhelming.  Then once the decision is made you have to find a place that will provide those clothes and in sizes that fit.  Cowboy clothes can run up the dollar amount fast!!!!  Choices in guns are fairly limited though and the choices are easier to make IMO.

The problem is,  they have no idea of safety, they have 0 military experience, they can't tell a hi-base shell from a sparkplug. 

Safety should be foremost.  It's fairly easy to tell, again IMO, if a person has sufficient knowledge of gun safety to be able to complete a match in a safe manner.  If they seem to be ignorant of safe gun handling procedures then they should be directed to attend a shooter's clinic before being allowed to shoot a match.  Even if they have been around guns all of their life they need a mentor to help them through the first match.  CAS is just that much different and the safety is so paramount that an extra someone there keeping a close watch on a new Cowboy Action shooter is a good idea.

Military experience, or no military experience has no bearing on CAS at all, again IMO.

[SIR WILLIAM]

The military reference was to a modicum of firearms safety knowledge.  There was a time when pretty much every man at a certain age had firearms training. Women are even getting that training today.  No,  you can't spot them by their camouflage pantsuits.  LOL  I simply support the idea of burning lead, LOTS of lead will improve your skills.  I have witnessed other sports that became bogged down in high dollar equipment.  They either died away or became too expensive to participate in.

[FJT]

Sir William;
A pair of Ruger Vaqs, a Marlin carbine, and a decent shotgun, and you're in.  Last year, Lead Dispencer won at EoT with these firearms.  He slicked them up himself using toothpaste, and put in spring kits.  That's it!

You could do it, too.  You can practice, like him.  He does have a gift, though, and heart, and you can't buy that.

Good luck!
Jackson

[Micheal Fortune]

And Camille Eonich , of course your right.....

[Moe Skeeter]

I think some could even be the CAS market itself.  I'm not bad mouthing any company or seller.  But the Marlin leverguns are a great example.  I could get a basic Marlin Cowboy for a little over $500.  Or I can spend an extra $150-$200 for the "Compitition" model, all the extra tuning, etc. having been done at the factory.

Something else to look at is how many folks go to a shoot to watch, and end up shooting with borrowed guns?  I know I have.  So in most likeley hood those guns had been worked on.  You finally get your own, and they don't feel as smooth.  Serviceable definately, but just a little rougher or stiffer.  So the natural tendancy or direction is to have your guns worked on. 

I agree with the rest of you.  A simple action job is a great thing to have even not being a "Top Gon".  It helps the firearms last longer and makes it more comfortable to shoot. 

Regards,
Moe Skeeter

[Driftwood Johnson]

Jaguar XJ-8?

Man I don't know where you're shooting, but around here the parking lots are full of Ford and Chevy pickups. I saw one of those fancy giant SUV's once, the kind that can flip back and forth from pick up to SUV, but just once. Most of the cowboys who show up around here are guys who get up each morning, put their pants on one leg at a time and go to work to make the mortgage payment each month. A new gun is an investment that has to be seriously considered for a while before running out and buying it. Most guys around here are not using fancy action jobs and short stroke jobs. And most are doing a lot more than showing up with the bare minimum clothing requirement.