practice ammo? (non range type)

[Revolver Ocelot]

I was curious if there's any kind of inexpensive ammo that can be used in a back yard or some such to practice with?  I've read about wax bullets, but they only seem to go about 30 feet, is there anything that goes further with accuracy?  Something I can hit soda cans with and learn to point shoot, fast draw, etc.?  Are there plastic or rubber bullets that won't damage stuff (outside, not drywall lol) or create a lot of noise?  I've got a place I can do this, so it's not like it will be in a back yard in a neighborhood, but not a place to fire live ammo, either.

[Delmonico]

Try a round ball lubed with Lee Liquid Alox and one to two grains of Bullseye, depending on caliber, used to shoot a lot of those with one grain and a 0.315 round ball in a 32 mag.

[hellgate]

I don't think you are going to find something that does what you want without it being considered the discharge of a firearm. I'm thinking there used to be cartridge comversion ammo that allowed you to insert a 22 rimfire into a larger cartridge and convert a centerfire to a rimfire. I seem to think you had to have the same bore diameter (22FR into a 222Rem, 30luger into a 30-06, etc). I still think some were 22RF in an '06 but it's been a long time since I've seen ads for them. I don't remember a 45LC anything.
Speer (?) makes plastic bullets that go into 38SPL plastic cases and are propelled by primer power only. They are very short range but accurate. They really shoot LOW as there is no recoil. They would penetrate paper targets but be stopped by a few layers of hanging towel behind the target. This was basement shooting. Someone else made rubber bullets that could be shot (primer only) "hundreds of times" also from standard cases. You had to drill out the flash holes in the cases to a larger diameter to prevent primers from backing out when fired and dragging on the recoil shield.
You can always just do a lot of indoor drills for dry firing, target acquisition, transition from one firearm to the rest, practicing reloading the shotgun and racking them out with dummy ammo. That kind of stuff can really help you get your coordination up. Some folks have small post-a-notes up on the wall in various arrays to simulate targets and practice drawing, dry firing, holstering etc to hone skills.

[Dr. Bob]

About 25 years ago someone was making plastic cases and bullets in pistol calibers that used only a primer.  Sorry, but I don't remember the brand.  I have CRS!     

[Revolver Ocelot]

I've got a place to fire, it's not that I need something not considered a firearm discharge, I just wanted something quiet and low powered.  I only need a range of about 50 feet or so.

[Delmonico]

Do try the round ball, I had really had good luck with them.  Used to use them at the farm to shoot starlings out of the trees in the front yard.  With the nearest neighbor almost a mile away, they are safe to shoot up in the air with and more sporting than just shooting them out of the tree with a shotgun.

[Revolver Ocelot]

How loud or powerful is this load you mentioned?  If I decide to practice quick draw, I'd rather not pick a bullet out of my leg.  I can't assume it's too fast since we're talking about a lead ball as opposed to wax, but you never know....

[Driftwood Johnson]

About 25 years ago someone was making plastic cases and bullets in pistol calibers that used only a primer.  Sorry, but I don't remember the brand.  I have CRS!     

Speer. They still make them, although it looks like they only make them for 38/357, 44 and 45ACP. I fooled with these a little bit when I was a kid, in 38 cal. They were fun, but you have to remember that when just using a primer for power, the primer tends to back out and lock up the gun.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=3&s2=8

Most fast draw shooters use blanks and shoot at balloons.

Of course, I hope you are aware that fast draw is not allowed at CAS matches, and not all ROs are going to be crazy about point shooting either.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I would not practice fast draw with boolits in the cases. I played around with 3/8" wax bullets in .45 Colt cases with just primers awhile  back. At six feet from the muzzle, the wax bullet went thru a layer of cardboard box and partial thru another one. You might break flesh with 'em but ya won't have to dig out a boolit.

Slim

[Revolver Ocelot]

Delmonico's idea sounds the best, though I do have a few questions.  I'm not going to have problems clearing the bore with a couple grains of powder and a ball am I?  I've got a .45, so I'd need something in .452 or would I go .454?  Standard or magnum primer?  I won't have problems with primers jamming the action like on blanks, will I?  What's the range you've noticed on these, I only need about 50 feet or so.  Will I need a wad to hold the powder in place, something like a piece of foam or w/e?  How deeply do the bullets need to be seated?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

With a very light load and just a round ball you probably will notice primers backing out and tending to jam your guns. Many loading manuals will list a 'round ball' load, I think my Lyman manual lists one. But unless you develop enough pressure to generate enough recoil to reseat the primer, you will notice primers backing out. That's one reason to always stay with published loads, and not 'a couple of grains' of powder. Most manuals will recommend against any sort of wad with Smokeless powder.

You might be better off to try 45 Schofield cases, rather than 45 Colt with very light loads. Schofield cases have less interior capacity and will develop greater pressure with the same powder charge and bullet. Adirondack Jack's new Cowboy 45 Special cases would also be excellent canditates for these loads. They have about the same interior capacity as a 45 ACP.

Again, please refer to a recognized published manual when loading any Smokeless cartridges.

[w.b. masterson]

Dillion Precision carries rubber bullets for .38, .44, & .45 that you use in standard cases with just a primer in them.  You do have to drill out the primer pocket hole to keep the primer from backing out and locking up the gun.  Very accurate out to 50 feet or so.  They'll penetrate a heavy cardboard box on both sides.  I use a carpet remnant hanging inside a box to "capture" the bullet for reuse.  I've used them in both Colt and Winchester.  The only thing is they shoot lower than line of sight since there's virtually no recoil.  I've been using them for years.

BAT

[Delmonico]

Driftwood you are right on that, those round ball loads have been around for so many years that I forgot that there isn'r a lot of developed data for them. 

Since I did start this and will add, like anything you are at your own risk.  I seet the balls fluse and use one 0.315 in a 0.312 bore.  I never had primers back out on my load and just used standard primers.  The worked good out to about 50-75 feet.  No wads, I used 32 Long cases for the 32 mag. 

As far as cleaning, no more problem than many lead bullet smokeless loads.  If you are a beliver in the gun has to be cleaned after shooting than before, a thought that seems to creep up among many CAS shooters, then don't bother, they are not the cleanest thing in the world.

As for clean burning loads, I have meantioned this before, but even though they are not CAS loads, the 3 nitro loads I like the best are the nastiest, dirtiest loads I have ever shot with Nitro powder but what the heck, they get the job done so well cleaning is a minor hassle.

[Silver Creek Slim]

The following is from Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook - Second Edition, page 215. Test Specs: Ruger Blackhawk with 7.5" barrel, twist = 1-16", groove diameter = .451".

Slim

[Revolver Ocelot]

Alright, the lead ball sounds feasible, thanks for the load data.  I looked for the dillon precision plastic bullets on their website, but wasn't able to find them.  I did find x-ring rubber bullets on midway, but not sure about how accurate those are to say 50 feet.  Lots of good info here guys, looks like there are options, except in 2 out of 3 situations I'lll need to enlarge the flash holes or use pre-drilled blank cases.

[w.b. masterson]

R.O.,

You are correct: the brand of the bullets are "X-Ring."  Dillon does carry them as well as others.  They are very accurate at 50 feet, particularly indoors.  You do have to drill out the primer cases, but they work just on primers without any powder.

BAT

[hellgate]

Keep in mind that most primers contain lead styphanate whick gets into the air when guns are fired. Good ventilation is needed if shot indoors. I believe Fiocchi makes some  lead free primers.

[SGT John Chapman]

Around here if somthing leaves the barrel of the weapon it is concidered discharging a weapon,...........be careful in city limits,.....the rubber bullets are loud,.......and will back out your primers.........

[Revolver Ocelot]

The place I have in mind is neither in a residential area, nor within city limits.