Which is safer: Win. 1873 or Win. 1866?

[Oregon Bill]

I know both are toggle link, the former is steel-framed and the latter brass or bronze. But is either model safer than the other if there is a case failure or other serious problem?

[Big John Denny]

Pard they're both "safe", especially with the loads we shoot in them. I've even shot full power hunting loads from my 1866 without a problem. The toggle ink is a real good and strong design.

I don't have a 1873 as yet, so I can't comment from personal experience, but both actions are similar, except for the dust cover on the 73.

It's really a matter of personal preference on the gun you want. I like the 1866 for looks and ease of use, but the 1873 is nice too. The magazines, barrels, etc are the same. There is a little more drop in the 1866 stock, which I like.

Go to a shoot and ask folks to let you try their guns, and then decide which you like better.

[Delmonico]

Accually the 73 is a bit safer, not because of the frame material but because of the lever lock, a 66 can be fired unlocked if you ain't careful.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Everything is relative. With CAS loads, both are completely safe. As has been said, the '73 has a steel frame and the '66 has a brass frame, so the inherent strength of the frame is greater in the steel framed '73. The component parts of the toggle link actions of both rifles are interchangeable and so the links themselves are equal in strength. The '73 does incorporate a trigger interlock that prevents the trigger from being pulled until the lever is completely closed. This does make the '73 inherently safer in that it is entirely possible to accidentally brush the trigger of the '66 and have a slam fire before the action is completely closed. The shooter must always be sure to keep his trigger finger off the trigger until the action is completely closed.

I take issue with the statement about the toggle ink being a 'real good and strong design'. Relatively speaking, the toggle link is inherently weak, when compared to the much stronger and more modern 1892 design. In the toggle link guns, there is no positive lock up. There are no locking lugs seating in grooves to lock the action closed like there are on almost any modern rifle. The links only have strength when they are extended straight. Allow them to fold slightly and they will collapse just as surely as your knees will collapse if somebody walks up behind you and shoves your knees forward from behind. You will fall like a ton of bricks, and so will a toggle link gun open up if the cartridge should discharge when the links are not fully extended straight. That is why the trigger interlock was originally included in the original '73 design. Winchester recognized that the more powerful 44-40 cartridge had more potential for disaster than the original 44 Henry cartridge did. Without an interlock, it is possible for a toggle link gun to slam fire, and if the links are not fully in line, the thrust of recoil can fold the links. Depending on the amount of missalingment, this may result in nothing more than a stinging hand where the lever took the brunt of the blow, or it may be more serious. It is not unknown for the lever to be ripped from the fingers and the bolt to completely open in recoil. There have even been incidents recorded of the small pin that secures the firing pin extension to the firing pin shearing, and the firing pin extension exiting the gun in the general direction of the shooter's aiming eye. This has happened. In a '66, or a Henry for that matter, pricise trigger control is a must. Keep your finger off the trigger until the lever is completely closed.

Shooting anything other than SAMMI strength loads in any toggle link gun, particularly a brass framed one, is not recommended. Over powered loads can damage the gun and permanently ruin the headspace. But normal CAS loads are fine.

[Delmonico]

Driftwood, I am 99% sure that real early 73's did not have the lever safety.  I'm sure someone can chime in on that with out me having to double check.

As for the finger off the trigger till the bolt is shut, that goes for any gun, to do other is a gross safety violation.

Someone, I belive it was the late Jeff Copper had this one one time, I have always liked it.

"Keep your damned finger off the damned trigger until the damned sights are on the damned target and you are damned ready to shoot."

Crude, but it makes the point well.

[Pettifogger]

Early 73s didn't have the trigger interlock and had a once piece trigger.  I have one made in 1876 and it lacks these features.  However, with the increased pressure of the .44-40, Winchester recognized there was a potential safety problem and added the trigger block.  This was before product liabililty lawsuits, yet Winchester thought it was a significant enough issue to modify the 73.

[Delmonico]

Thanks, that is what I thought but was to lazy to go upstairs and drag out big thick books.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Yeah, I was too lazy to go look too. But the point is well taken. Whether or not it was included in the very first 73s or not, Winchester realized there was a need, and added the interlock. And we all know that we aren't supposed to touch the trigger until we are ready to shoot. But what we know and what we do may not always be the same thing. I have seen plenty of CAS shooters who swear up and down that they never touch the trigger until the lever is closed. I've seen them do otherwise.

[Delmonico]

A good Hickory rod across that finger a time or two by a range officer would cure that.  Spent to much time as a Hunter Ed and a NRA instuctor to think other wise.