Rebuttals to Mr. Venturino

[Fox Creek Kid]

Anybody else read the rebuttal letters in the new American Handgunner to Mike Venturino's article on the "gameyness" of SASS? The editor said the majority were pro & not con but brother you should read some of the con ones they printed!    In essence, they are the SOS we constanly hear such as the "shoot your own game" BS. People never cease to amaze me. 

[Gold Canyon Kid]

So what is BS about shooting your own game? Why do you care what anyone else shoots if they are following the rules?

[River City John]

I thought only gamers read American Handgunner.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Gold Canyon Kid, you're in NCOWS country here, not SASS "Westworld".    We strive for AUTHENTICITY, not "gameyness". Mike Venturino has done more for 19th century shooting than any living person I know of.

River City John, I shoot modern guns as well and AH is a great magazine. I am able to keep them separate.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Joss, I read all three putrid pages and want to vomit.    It's so funny that all the naysayers are total unrepentant gamers & will do anything short of killing to keep SASS "Westworld". Absolutely incredible.  It's like a disease. They have no love for history nor the era and are using CAS to mould their own image of a West they know nothing of in a direction they know not where.

[Gold Canyon Kid]

So in NCOWS you worry more about what everyone else shoots and wears than having fun yourself.  What ever toots your horn!

[Dr. Bob]

Golly gee, I sure glad that I live a sheltered life in NOCWS!  I have never been to the SASS wire.  I do know a number of folks that are members of SASS and they seem like nice folks and only one or two are what I would call gamers.  I like the emphasis that NCOWS places on authenticity in firearms and outfits.  I'm proud to be an NCOWS member!!

Dr. Bob     NCOWS Senate Candidate

[Grizzle Bear]

Well, I went and waded through that whole mess.  I feel permanently diminished because of it.

But I will say there are a number of folks over there that need to find out about NCOWS!

Grizzle Bear

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Just wandered over to check that thread out.  Golee, I sure am glad I joined NCOWS instead of them.  Our hollerin seems much more gentle, somehow.

[Fox Creek Kid]

So in NCOWS you worry more about what everyone else shoots and wears than having fun yourself.  What ever toots your horn!

Once every six months or so I gander at the SASS Wire. It's not unlike slowing down to rubberneck a particularly gruesome car crash or a two headed pig for that matter. I DO NOT however post my NCOWS views there as I am of the opinion that you cannot spit polish a turd. Why are you posting here Gold Canyon Kid?    I'm an NCOWS member. Who are you?

[royal barnes]

Fox Creek Kid, I have been a Life SASS member for 11 years and no one can question my level of authenticity in all aspects of my game. The large number of SASS shooters are the same way. No question there are "gamers" as you call them. The overall impression of the responses on the SASS wire was to "live and let live" not one of approval. We have a saying in SASS, "The SASS Wire is not SASS". NCOWS and SASS can each fill a niche in this game and there is no need for name calling or degradation on either side. I have been in and out of NCOWS about three times over the past several years and am currently a dues paying member. I have left on previous occasions because of the attitude of a number of NCOWS members toward SASS. I have NEVER heard a disparaging remark about NCOWS from anyone in SASS. 

[Will Ketchum]

Fox Creek Kid, I have been a Life SASS member for 11 years and no one can question my level of authenticity in all aspects of my game. The large number of SASS shooters are the same way. No question there are "gamers" as you call them. The overall impression of the responses on the SASS wire was to "live and let live" not one of approval. We have a saying in SASS, "The SASS Wire is not SASS". NCOWS and SASS can each fill a niche in this game and there is no need for name calling or degradation on either side. I have been in and out of NCOWS about three times over the past several years and am currently a dues paying member. I have left on previous occasions because of the attitude of a number of NCOWS members toward SASS. I have NEVER heard a disparaging remark about NCOWS from anyone in SASS. 

I agree.  I am a life member of both organizations.  My local SASS club has it's share of competitive shooters but I would say that as a whole most of the members would fit in any NCOWS posse.  We have a close relationship between our groups.  In fact our NCOWS posse Marshal is also the current SASS Territorial Governor for our club.  I use to hear SASS members cutting down NCOWS but aver the past few years that has stopped since I think people have a better understanding of what NCOWS is about.

Will Ketchum

[Fox Creek Kid]

It seems as if Mr. Venturino really hit a nerve over there. When the foremost author on 19th century shooting In America says the "emperor has no clothes" then maybe it's time to pay heed. By the responses on the SASS Wire you'd think Mr. Venturino was a Federal Senator about to cut federal funding to a pork barrel project!    Mr. Barnes, I've talked to many SASS members who have said disparaging words against NCOWS, but that is not the point of this thread, sir. I have no "dog in the fight" as far as SASS goes as I shoot NCOWS, but I disapprove of the "cyber lynching" of Mr. Venturino by a bunch of SASS "people" who are not worthy to suck the soot out of Mike's dirty BP cleaning patches! 

[Montana Slim]

The whole topic illustrates perfectly why I never joined SASS. I saw the writing on the wall 10+ years ago and joined NCOWS. It's the only game within three hours driving distance. Attending a SASS matches are my only form of practice for my infrequent visits to NCOWS clubs.

Shootin' BP duelist against the .45 special and Ruger C&B has made practice tougher. Maybe this will make me better? or just discouraged. They provide a significant "edge". (period).

But, I do have a passel of good friends at the local SASS clubs! My problem is with the rules of the organization, which leads to (encourages) the gamer mentality. Personally, it only truly bothers me when it cuts into the BP categories....why??...not just because I shoot those categories...but, I've seen these classes (BP, CC, Front) as the more authentic aspects of SASS.

I have to disagree with Will on one point...at least at the two SASS clubs I frequent. The majority wouldn't pass muster on clothing requirements on a given day....and I estimate around 40% use prohibited weapons, cartidges, and/or weapons modifications.

I'm actually voicing for more Wild-Bunch matches locally....at least everyone's shooting pretty much equal footing (at this time).

On the plus side, disgruntled SASS folks could lead to more interest in NCOWS.

Slim

[Gold Canyon Kid]

Once every six months or so I gander at the SASS Wire. It's not unlike slowing down to rubberneck a particularly gruesome car crash or a two headed pig for that matter. I DO NOT however post my NCOWS views there as I am of the opinion that you cannot spit polish a turd. Why are you posting here Gold Canyon Kid?    I'm an NCOWS member. Who are you?

I appologize, I was not aware I had to be an NCOWS member to post on the CAS-L Forums. Please remove my posts if it would make you feel better.  I was under the impression anyone could post.

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

I thought, and so I was told, there are two different organizations with two different goals.  Why do NHRA members give a hoot what NASCAR is doing?  And it's degenerating into some nasty analogies.   This is fruitless.
Bye peoople, this isn't fun, authentic or anything good.

[Delmonico]

As I said before when the original post about the artcle in the news stand gun rag was posted, it sounds exactly like a similar one about 10 years ago in another gun rag, back before I quit botherin' about readin' such things.

THE EDITOR OF SAID MAGAZINE LET THE ARTICLE BE PUBLISHED AND MIGHT HAVE EVEN ASSIGNED SAID ARTICLE.  WHY, SO IT WOULD SELL MORE MAGAZINES.  FUNNY HOW SO MANY FOLKS WORRY ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE IN ANOTHER ORGANIZATION DO.  'SPECIALLY WHEN FOLKS SAY "I DON'T LIKE THAT ORGANIZATION."

But heck, the elections are over and we don't see any mud slinging on TV right no.  If you don't  like SASS don't do SASS, if youd don't like NCOWS don't do NCOWS and if you don't like broccoli don't eat broccoli.  It is that simple, would have thought you all would have thought of that on yer own.

Next lesson is how to use that paper than hangs in a roll in the bathroom.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Gold Canyon Kid, you do not have to be an NCOWS member to post on this open forum. I need only remind you that you're in a different world here. Remember, we don't allow short strokes, speed holsters, etc. We strive for AUTHENTICITY.  That is what makes NCOWS different from other CAS organizations, mainly SASS. When you start spewing that "shoot your own game" SOS here you're going to be confronted. Most NCOWS members came to our group to get away from that mentality. If you don't want to be mauled by the lion then don't enter its lair. 

[Gold Canyon Kid]

Sounds like an unfriendly group and I will avoid it in the future. Thanks for the heads up. I will shoot my own game and let you do likewise.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I'm locking this thread as a "troll" prevention measure.