Coach Guns: Spartan vs. Stoeger

[Crooked River Bob]

Howdy

My good wife asked the other day what shotgun she could use for varmint control around the house.  What a woman!  I'm looking for something short and handy, and simple to operate.  She feels the 870 is too complicated, and she likes the idea of a double as opposed to a single shot.  A hammerless 12 gauge coach gun is the answer.

I have a TTN 1878 that I use as my main match gun, but I think a hammerless would suit her better.  I've narrowed my choices down to a Stoeger Coach Gun (#31400) or a Remington Spartan SPR 220 (#89548).  I have a gunsmith lined up who can do an action job to make either gun easier to open and close, and he can also cut it back to our length of pull and install a recoil pad.  This gun will be "her" gun, but I expect to use it just once in a while as a backup for cowboy action shooting.

The Stoeger costs about $50.00 more than the Spartan, and has a black walnut stock, 3" chambers, and the barrels are choked modified and IC.  I understand that parts for the Stoeger are hard to get, and the guns themselves are sometimes in short supply, as well.  The Spartan has a "hardwood" stock, cylinder-bored barrels, and 2-3/4" chambers.  Parts for the Spartan are said to be readily available.  However, my feeling is that if the gun is well made in the first place, you shouldn't be needing to replace that many parts.

What do you think?  Which is the better choice for the uses outlined above?  I'd like straightforward opinions from people who are familiar with both guns, if possible.  The $50.00 price difference is not a factor... both guns, in my opinion, are reasonably priced.

Your opinion counts!

Crooked River Bob

[fourfingersofdeath]

Most of the guys here shoot Boito's in cowboy competition, this is the same as the Stoeger I'm about 99.9% sure. I've never seen anybody have any trouble with them. They make a two barreled combo, which would be worth considering as a farm / competition gun. The longer Barrel would be more useful around the homestead I'm thinking. On the other hand show her an 870 pump in 410, sweeeeeeeeeeeet little gun, she'll love it. Mick

[Major 2]

I too have the TTn 1878 and I'm very happy with it right out of the box , and the personal approach of Walt Johnson.

That said, I had a Stoeger it was a rugged little gun but needed smoothing (but not to much) to polish the chambers and aid the opening. The biggest bug a boo was the extractor bore was burred & rough.
I had trouble trying to get a new stock for Stoeger, when mine (Some species of S American Hardwood) cracked.
They did not want to honor their Warranty, I gave up and repaired myself. Walnut was not offered.

The new Uberti/Benelli imported Stoegers appear much improved, and if they (Uberti) honor the warranty like they handle their own.
You'll have no problems.

Remington now imports the Russian Baikel ( now Spartan ) They are ruggedly built but rougher & tighter than the old Stoeger's in my opinion.
can't say to the parts issue....

[Marauder]

Both are good guns, but my wife tried both and she much preferred the Spartan with a longer barrel as it has much less felt recoil.  That is prtly due to the barrels and the design of the stock.  The end result is that the Stoeger recoiled up and twisted away from her and she did not like it at all!

You won't need 3' shells as the recoil would be even worse.

So I would consider getting the Spartan with a standard length barrel rather than the coach gun if she is at all senstive to recoil. 

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,

Now I ain't fast, especially with my shotgun!  But when I retired my Belgian hammer double with the 28" barrel, which I prefer to the coach guns, I went looking for a replacement.  Unfortunately (for me), I could only find the Baikals with 28" barrels in hammerless variety.  But I checked the Stoegers and they were heavier, and the forearms feel like a 4x4!  So I went for the Baikal.  Yes, it does have the tendency to stay half-way closed unless you pull down on the barrels, but that eases up after awhile.  For my money, the only better gun would be a hammer version.  And you CAN get that in the 20" barrel.  The Baikal weighs within an ounce of my old Belgian, and the balance is identical!   

Since Remington now is the importer under the "Spartan" trademark, I would anticipate no problems with parts.  Plus, unless a gunsmith starts working on them and buggers something up, I wouldn't think you'd need much in the way of parts.  (There IS on caveat...IF you start messing with the springs so the gun stays open more, you CAN cause undue strain on the forearm hanger.  I've never had a problem, but some have.   With the outside hammer models there should be no problem of that sort anyway.

Luck to your lady!

[Big John Denny]

I would take your wife to one of your shoots and let her try both guns, considering both models would probably be in use by other shooters, and then buy the one she liked.

I use a Stoger myself and have had no problem with it at all. I have seen versions of the Spartan for sale and several of them I could not break open, new in the box, without great effort. Others opened fine. I guess its just the luck of the draw.

You can also buy either model with choke tubes, something to consider if you plan to use it too.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I've had five Stoegers. Four coach guns and one long-barreled single trigger Uplander Supreme. Three of the coach guns shot so far off on one barrel that I couldn't hit a target as CAS distances with the same sighting (I sighted then at 15 feet and the pattern was high and off to the side on one barrel by about a foot on all three). The Uplander used to shoot both barrels at the same time about every ten times I stoked it. It got better and I worked it over some. Now it only does it maybe twice a year if I use it at every match I shoot. One of the coach guns is a great little gun with no problems at all.

I had a Baikal that was a nice gun but I didn't like the choke setup on it and there wasn't enough metal to put choke tubes in so I bought a couple Stoegers and everything started as I explained above. The new Baikals can be bought with choke tubes, I understand. That would make them really great shotguns.

I can't speak for the Spartan as I've never handled or shot one. Might be a good choice. I also am thinking that the new Remington may be a good one. My Stoegers may have been a fluke but you're on your own with them, in my opinion. 1 out of 5 is not a good score.

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

You didn't say what  kind of varmints around the house.  You can look into reduced recoil loads for her.  Winchester has a Low Recoil/Low Noise load that is very light feeling but still puts out about 7/8 oz #7 1/2 shot.  There's also the "Managed Recoil" loads.  And if that's too much, you can order very light loads from Polywads in Georgia.  They're "Vintage" shells go pop!  They come in 46 grams of #7 1/2 or #6 shot and all put out 1100fps or better.  Quite a few CAS shooters use them in older doubles.
http://www.polywad-shotgun-shells.com/vintager/
For those that look at my e-mail address; I'm not related to Jay, never met him, have no interest in the business, pay for the products just like anyone else.
BB

[Adirondack Jack]

Much as I hate to say it, a 12 GA coach gun with some low noise,low recoil shells will be an easier to shoot gun, and a hammer gun is easier to operate in reality, and the condition is obvious.   If the hammer is back, it'scocked, if it ain't, it ain't.  Coach gun like the TTN or even a beater norinco with a recoil reducer in the stock would be a good critter gun for behind the kitchen door.

[Howdy Doody]

Well, yes I like the Baikal/Remington Spartan just fine, and I have one that I have shot a lot. However, I just got a new toy and that is the IAC 87. I wish I could tell you how many you can stoke in the tube, I think it is 7 2 1/2" shells. The reason I can't tell you is because I have only stoked a couple so far and the manual they give you with the shotgun is about worthless. The point I am making is that that 87 is one heck of a deterrant for around the house. Talk about firepower. It has a mean look to it too.
I have only shot 2 matches with it so far and I am really slow with it so far. It may never be theshotgun to take to a big match, but it sure is fun to shoot.

[Crooked River Bob]

Thanks to one and all.  I appreciate your comments and opinions. 

The lady of the house likes a double.  It's simple to operate and it has two quick shots.  I have a "black" Remington 870 which is intended for home protection, but it's more complicated than she likes.  Personally, I like hammered doubles but they are a little slower to operate than the hammerless variety.  We'll probably go with a hammerless for ease of operation.  I have a cowboy action gunsmith lined up to work it over and make it easier to open.

It sounds as if the majority have had better experiences with the Baikals than Stoegers.  I believe the Remington Spartans are made by Baikal.   

Somebody asked what sort of varmints we're talking about here.  There aren't that many that cause problems.  I did kill a mad coon on the place a couple of years ago, and also a crow that was acting sickly.  Numbers of crows at that time were found to carry West Nile Virus.  Possums are definitive carriers of EPM, and we have horses so sickly crows and any possum on the property better hightail it before we get the gun.  Armadillos are plentiful and dig holes that are just the right size to trip a horse, so we try to discourage them, also.  However, we have a free-ranging Great Dane on the property who has developed an interest in armadillo hunting, and he has dispatched two of 'em without our help so far this month.  He doesn't get quite as aggressive with the possums for some reason, so if we can't run them off we shoot 'em. We have a few snakes, but rattlesnakes have gotten scarce and the corals succumb to a common garden hoe.  Before anybody says, "Oh, the poor snakes," bear in mind I have two little granddaughters who visit regularly and poisonous snakes simply must not stay here.  When I see poisonous snakes out in the woods away from home, I leave them be, as they have jobs to do and a place in this world, the same as us.  We just can't have them on the home property.  The nonpoisonous serpents are welcome here, and yes, we can tell the difference.   As for the two-legged varmints, we just want to be prepared. 

I've patterned a couple of shotguns and at ten yards and under, even a cylinder-bored coach gun will deliver a surprisingly small pattern.  I figure at household distances, an ounce of birdshot is probably not much different from a slug.  If you've never pattened your cowboy-action shotgun at close to moderate distances, I'm sure you'll find it worthwhile.  You might be surprised.  The shorter barrels of a coach gun will be handier for the lady to handle and easier to store, and if I'm a good boy she might let me try it out at a cowboy action match from time to time.

I reckon I'll order the Boss a Spartan.  She just likes the idea of having a gun handy, and the old Lefever has gotten too worn to be reliable. 

Once again, I appreciate your responses, and I hope all of you have the best Thanksgiving ever.

Crooked River Bob