Frustration

[Noz]

I went to a shoot this morning with my pair of 44 Pietta Remingtons, Remington #11s ( the new hot ones), Thunder Ridge nipples and 777 powder. I loaded about 28 grains of 777 under a wool felt lubed wad and a 454 round ball and confidently stepped to the line. I did not successfully complete a single stage with my pistols. Not only that, I did not get a full five shots from either gun on any stage. Hang fires, misfires and jams.  After the first stage, shot gun and rifle went to hell as well because of my mental condition.  After the first stage I used a nipple pick to clean the fire hole on each nipple, loaded and then did it again to make sure no crud had gotten into the fire hole.
I have a big shoot next weekend and my confidence in the Remingtons is destroyed. I brought one gun back from the shoot with 4 unfired chambers. I hate to think I may have to go back to the BlackHawks to be able to shoot with confidence.
I will accept any help anyone might have to offer.

[litl rooster]

  For the sake of getting you as much help as any can.  Was this a cap issue with your pistols? Sounds like fustration got ya on rifle shotgun...So set them aside for another time.
  Did you cap your pistols off at home before loading?

[Grizzle Bear]

Dump the 777 and get some real black powder.

GB

[Howdy Doody]

Nozzle, I feel your frustration. I would have liked to be there and actually witnessed what was happening. I shot Remmies when I started in on C&B and switched to something else. I had issues a lot like yours with mine too and they were Piettas. I first found that by popping caps before loading was a help. I had issues on the first stage that cleared up by stage two. I used the standard nipples with #10 Rem caps. Most of my stuff will take a #11 cap just fine, but they are shorter than #10 and tend to blow back. Hangfires would indicate powder issues to me or was it just cap fizzles? Cap fizzles might be from moisture. You can usually tell if the caps have had moisture, because they will leave some green fulminate on the nipples. I store my caps in one of those plastic tupperware boxes and I throw the little desiccant bags I find in some powder containers in there with the caps. There are a lot of things that could be the trouble and if you could elaborate more, maybe we can help. Rems for the most part are very reliable unless screwed up. Another thought would be the hammer adjustment screw. Set properly? You need a good deal of spring on the hammer unless the action has been slicked up a lot. I am no expert, but I think you can get yours going just fine. It is hell to try out new shooters when you are trying to shoot a match. Can you practice shooting yours before you shoot another match? I don't care for 777, but a lot of folks use it, but nowhere near the load you have going. The muzzle flip and recoil is too much for me. I love that powder for long range however. I wonder if you cut back to 15gr you would have better results. You should still be able to ram if you are using wads. With 777 you only want a light compression also. Can you get any other powder around your neck of the woods? I like Goex Pinnacle this year and it shoots about like APP does but has some plus characteristics to it, like no clumping in a measure and such. I don't care for Pyrodex unless you can clean your guns right after shooting as it seems real corrosive and smells funny to boot. If you can get some real BP like Goex try that. 20gr load of BP or APP or Pinnacle is a good CAS load. The caps should work for you. Please let us know pard.

[Arcey]

I brought one gun back from the shoot with 4 unfired chambers.

Were ya able to figger out why those four didn't fire, Noz?

[Noz]

Howdy Doody, I fired caps before going to the shoot. I thought the first atage was a fluke and chaged it off to misfortune. Second third and fourth stages were the same or worse.
I just checked the hammer springs and they were not snugged up tight. ??
The caps fired each time I pulled the trigger. Powder would go, sometimes, with a flintlock amount of hesitation, other times not at all.
Loading sequence: 1. Wipe down face of cylinder. 2. Run nipple pick thru all nipples. 3. Charge, wad and bullet. 4, Nipple pick thru all nipples. 5. Cap when called. The caps are loose (slipped on, not jammed on) on the nipples and do not fall off when firing.

Other than the main spring tensioning screw, the only change is the powder.

litl rooster, Yeah the frustration caused the poor performance( mine not the guns) on the rifle and shotgun.

Arcey, I had a "squib" type firing on the first shot and the gun was taken out of competetion until it was determined that the ball had indeed cleared the barrel. It had.

Grizzle Bear. Done! Back to FFFg GOEX.

KEEP THINKING FOR ME.

I'm going to take them out again this after noon and I'll report back on results with the only change being powder and springs tightened.

[sundance44`s]

Bought a case of CCI caps the other day just because i didn`t feel like driveing the extra 20 mins to the Bass Pro Shop for my uasual Remington #10 caps ... i guess life was just too easy with the Remington caps .. maybe i wanted to spice up my life somewhat .... thats just what the CCI caps did ..every time one of the CCI caps would frizzle or fail to ignite i would swear to the holy black gods never again will i run ...excuse me ..try to run CCI caps through my Remmies . My 4 Remmies have always run perfect never failed as reliable as any cartrage gun and this weekend they all made a azz out of me and the flustration has given me heart burn and made my head hurt ..and i`m thinking of drinking again .OR maybe i`ll give the rest of these CCI caps a propper resting place out back about 6 ft under .
I know I know ... some Pards can use`em and never have a problem .. i`ve seen it .. but not in my perfect world .

[44caliberkid]

By the description of your problem in your second post I would say it's not a cap or ignition problem, since they always pop and your nipples were clear.  Most likely a powder problem, I'll second the switch to real BP.  I have a totally stock Pietta 1858 that runs fine, no problems of any kind.

[Wolfgang]

Did you ever shoot that load before ?  What lube was on the wad ?  I've had lubed wads contaminate real black powder so that it would fizzle.  I quit using lubed wads.  My Pietta Remi with stock nipples and CCI #11s has had only two misifes out of about 150 rounds fired. Cap each time. But I think the caps had come loose from recoil rather than the caps being at fault. About what I expect for failures from any cap and ball pistol.  I'm not familiar with any  "new hot"  CCI caps?   My   $ .03 if of any worth.  Tell us what you find out and get 'em shooting reliably.  Good shootin', . . .

[Noz]

I try to answer everybody. The 777 load was the first time I had tried it in competition. That spuld have nothing to do with it I know but it seems to have.
I used wool felt wads with wonder lube on them.

I took them out last night after I had tightened the tensioning screw on the main spring. They had not been cleaned after the Saturday shoot. Fired the four loaded chambers with no problem except difficult to turn cylinder. I loaded and fired 18 round per gun with GOEX and the Remington #11s. No misfires, no hangfires. "Left" pistol still very hard to get the cylinder to turn.  Back to the work bench. Look at the 2 guns with "what is different" in mind. The left gun had a chip broken off of the nose of the hand. The only contact point between the hand and the cylinder was the very inner most area of the cylinder where the hand had the least mechanical advantage. I took it out and instead of changing it out I just reshaped the nose of the hand to a round configuration thinking that it would center better in the slots in the cylinder.
Took them back out and fired 12 rpounds per gun with no mis fires and no dragging cylinder.

Conclusion: 777 does not work in my guns. I'll try to move the remainder at the next shoot. It seems like every time I try one of the sub powders I get slapped in the face.  GOEX is available locally so I will never, never depart from the Holy Black again.
Obviously when a problem arises that seems to be mechanical it probably is. The Remingtons are so simply made that, once you look for the problem, it is relativly easy to find.
I am going to clean them this morning and go out at noon and run 4 or 5 cylinders full to make sure everything is running as I would expect them to run.
Grapeshot: I'll keep your suggestion in mind in case I run into this again.

Thanks for all your help

[Grapeshot]

To bad you don't live closer.  I'd take that 777 off your hands.

By the way.  Did you get my PM to you.

[Smokin Gun]

I'm sure the hand had alot to do with the misfires and binding/cyl drag.
I fully back up the vote to use Black Powder also... tried 777 ffg worked well wasn't as accurate or consistant. Also after 18 rounds in my 1860 it sheared the locating pins in the frame clean off @ 28GR 777 ffg = to 32.2gr of BP(15% greater by volume). Din't hurt my Remmies but I ain't usin' it no more still got half a lb. Hogdon site also says not to compress bring ball to powder no lubed component between ball and powder. Ok to card first...apparently a contanination issue.
I used waxed lube pills and worked, but no liquid to seep into the 777 I guess.
If toy want to know about lube pills/grease cookies let me know...a friend started selling them here on line. I been makin' um a while and won't use anything else.
Look for add Junk Yard Dog (rifle@vol.com)

[Paladin UK]

Fer Wolfgang .........

Did you ever shoot that load before ?  What lube was on the wad ?  I've had lubed wads contaminate real black powder so that it would fizzle.  I quit using lubed wads.

I had this happen when I first started using waxed wads `specially in the summer months, the easiest way to completely remove this problem is just a simple juice container wad!! (The ones that have the silver stuff on the inside).. Between yer powder `n yer waxed wad

Paladin (What lurvs the Holy Black  ) UK