Hunting w/ BP Shotshells

Tyrel Roy · August 09, 2006, 04:36:29 PM

Fellow Darksiders,

I have a 12 gauage 26" Stevens 311 I think I want to take small game hunting this fall...mainly pheasants but also grouse, rabbit, quail, dove. I also want to hand load some BP shells to take these critters with. I currently load 2 3/4 shells with a plastic shot cup for SASS. Do I need to go with a 3" shell with 2F or 3F BP for pheasants? I was thinking load up a square load to begin with, roll crimp, and see how they pattern.

Just wondering if anyone elase has had any luck with taking small game with BP!

Thanks,

TR

Driftwood Johnson · August 09, 2006, 05:30:08 PM

Howdy

I don't think the old 311s were chambered for 3" shells. It's pretty much a mistake to think that more powder will mean a better hunting load with BP. A square load is certainly your best for a start for a good pattern. I don't think you really need to go to a roll crimp either. I'm not a hunter myself. One guy who's forgotten more than I'll ever know about hunting with BP shotguns is Lars over at the Open Range.

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php

Click on The Darkside and post your question. You will get some very knowledgable replies.

Delmonico · August 09, 2006, 05:37:39 PM

I ain't hunted much with black powder loads, but the ballistics ain't much different than modern Nitro loads. If they didn't work on game we wouldn't of had shotguns in the period. You don't say what you are hunting, but many use to much choke, too much shot to make up for lousy shooting. I've been hunting pheasants, quail and dove for 25 years with 7/8 oz of shot in a skeet choked 28 gauge with nitro powder. Have killed most likely close to a pick-up load of birds with it. Seldom feel undergunned, but I hunt rather than just walk around looking for birds.

Fact is training a new pard right now, he's 10 weeks old and will go out in November.

Dick Dastardly · August 09, 2006, 06:33:27 PM

Howdy Tyrel Roy, and welcome.

Hunting with bp is not really all that different from hunting with heathen smokeyless fad powder. I really enjoy hunting and bagging birds with black powder. It brings back the image of old time hunters in the Northwoods.

I have three 311 SxS shotguns. One each 20ga, 16ga and 12ga. Each has it's own preferance for the best load for a good uniform pattern. The tightest choke isn't always the best for the tightest pattern, depending on forcing cone and wad type. You have to experiment and shoot some paper. Then, when you do find the pattern that pleases you there is one more thing to do. Get an old bed sheet and hang it up. Paint a spot in the middle. Now, take a box of your newly developed ammo and start shooting the spot. Simply mount the gun and shoot. Don't walk up and look. Just keep loadin' and shootin'. Soon enuf a ragged hole will begin to appear. That's where yer shotgun is hittin' when you think you are shootin' the spot. This information will help you to KNOW where your pattern center is when the birds fly. You will bag more birds because you know where your gun shoots.

Hope this helps.

DD-DLoS

Dick Dastardly · August 09, 2006, 07:02:03 PM

That sheet trick is one I stole from the late great Donald Zutz. Don Zutz has written more great common sense literature on hunting handloads than most of the current hacks combined. His book "Handloading for hunting" is one I highly recommend. Much of the shotgun information can be translated to BP loads with a little insight.

Take a long hard look at the forcing cones in yer scattergun. My 20ga thrives on "natural" wads. My ugly slicked up sawed off 12ga prefers plastic shot cups. The 16ga does well with either, but the nod for bp goes to "natural" wads.

Also, all three benefit from a good tight roll crimp. If you don't have a roll crimper, you can still put an overshot card on top of the shot before you make a pie crimp. A good strong crimp is absolutely essential for consistant patterns. Anything less and the actual pressure can easily vary as much as a thousand pounds. Not a great way to make predictable shot shells that need to make clean kills.

DD-DLoS

TAkaho kid · August 09, 2006, 08:41:59 PM

Hello Tyrel,

Here is a neat site fore old shotshell data.

[url]http://www.tbullock.com/images/BPSG/bpsg-sears.gif][http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html/url]

[url]http://www.tbullock.com/images/BPSG/bpsg-sears.gif

A typical vintage Pheasant load would have been 3-1/2 drams and 1-1/8 oz to 1-1/4 oz of #6 or #5.
I load these in 2-3/4" paper hulls with Schuetzen 2F, circle fly wads and a roll crimp. I have also had good luck with 2-1/2" shells, 3 drams and 1-1/8 oz.

If your gun has been back bored or is of new production with a long forcing cone then fiber/paper wads may not perform well. The only way to know for sure is load some up and do some patterns.

Tyrel Roy · August 09, 2006, 09:56:18 PM

Thank you all for the advice. I will start with a sqaure load and try both fiber and plastic wads, but I think it is of "newer" manufacture. And Driftwood you are right..only 2 3/4" in the Stevens...not sure what I was thinking talking about 3".

This is gonna be a great season!!

TR

Wills Point Pete · August 10, 2006, 12:00:56 AM

Don't be afraid to add up to one third by volume of the shot. Sqare is a good place to start but most shotguns will pattern better by decreasing the powder a little while increasing the shot.

Montana Slim · August 10, 2006, 12:01:02 PM

I shot a couple of Roosters one day last fall with my el-cheepo hammer coachgun. Loads were same as nomal CAS stuff, except I substituted #5's. I don't use shotcups. One of the shots was close (too close

) but I salvaged him....the other was/should have been out of range for the gun/load but he went down anyway. It was a great day, to be sure! Took a photo when I got home...I'll see if I can add it to the post later (have to find it).

Slim