need help with my 45-70 load

[R Hill]

Finally got to shoot my B.C. with my Big Lube 390 bullets today.  The first 10 shots (at 100tydss.) went into about 10", a bit dissapointed.  Then noticed the muzzle was fairly dry, I figured from shooting my muzzle loader it should be pretty wet.  So the next five rounds were dry brushed between shots, and they went into 3".  Much better.  My load is 66gr. FFG compressed about .25" with a wax wad over the powder.  Homemade lube of 50/40/10 beeswax,crisco, canola oil.  You guys think my lube is too dry?  Im not sure where to adjust my load now.  If lube is too dry,should I try adding more crisco or canola oil or both?  This is new to me so I am not sure just how soft the lube should be.  All I do know is it is a lot softer than my smokyless bullet lube.  Any help from  one of you experts would be greatly appreciated.  I got a big grin of my face shooting these lousy groups, just want a bigger one for shooting a few really good ones.  It sure is an attention getter at the range lighting these round off!  Thanks all!!!

[Howdy Doody]

I myself use a lube made from beeswax, mutton tallow and crisco. If too lube go for more of the Crisco. Could be hot weather is playing with you.
You don't mention what powder you use, but I have had good luck with 777 and a stiffer lube in that big lube 400. 777 really zings that slug right on out there. I believe the most power per grain of the subs. I don't shoot expensive true black. Maybe someone can give us some insight on their experience with Swiss,etc. I'll assume you have slugged your bore.
Experimenting is half the fun of BP shooting.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy R Hill,

I've had very good luck with that bullet and Pearl Lube.  The exact recipe is in the Dark Arts child board.  I have no experience with canola oil and crisco is way to expensive cuz yer payin' for color and fragrence that don't help the lube one bit.  Since this bullet design hauls way more lube than any other comparable bullet I've found, it's probably not quantity that's a  problem.  For some reason the lube isn't getting into the rifling and keeping the fouling soft.  The muzzle should be wet and dirty.  You shouldn't have to use the white glove test to see it either.

I'll keep an eye on this thread to see how stuff develops for you.

DD-DLoS

[Bristow Kid]

I am interested in this too as I will be loading my own here very soon.

[sundance44`s]

I had some problems finding the right loads for my buffalo classic 45/70 too .. like you said rather large groups even at 50 yards .. doing some reading about the 45/70 on the net .. i ran into an article about the original 45/70 bullets being .405 gr which i was useing ... except the original mold throws a hollow base bullet and it`s .459 dia.  so i ordered one from Lee and sure enough i`m impressed.. i now shoot 2inch groups at 100 yards ..with 65 grs of goex 2f and my 50/50 bees wax crisco lube ... one of my friends that shoot with me alot is trying to use the B/P subs in his loads ... and he`s shooting all over the place at 100 yards . so far i know he`s used 777 and APP with the moly lube bullets ... guess he thinks i`m going to too much trouble with my loading ... but hey if it`s worth loading it`s worth loading right to me .. The artical i read said that the hollow base bullets would uasually fix the problems and it sure fixed mine . Now my classic is a sweet shooter , it`s taken it`s place in the gun safe as one of my favorite B/P cartrage guns ..and i`m casting some soft lead bullets the way i like `em . Haven`t noticed any leading in the bore anymore eaither since i started casting my own .

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Mr. R. Hill!

My lube has to fit many uses.  Cap'n'ball, 250 gr. BigLube (TM) boolits in 45 Colt, and soon, 535 gr. Postell slugs from my 45-70 Sharps repro.

I started out with 1/4 lb parraffein (sp?), 1/4 lb beeswax, and 2 cups olive oil.  It was way too stiff.  I kept adding olive oil until I had used about 1 and 1/3 qt!  Now it turns semi liquid by the heat of my body (I use a waxed wad between bullet and powder) but it works like a charm.  I've used it at the NCOWS National shoot and from my C'n'B pistol and it does very well.  I haven't tried it with the 45-70 yet, however, but I predict it will do just fine.  The wax wad keeps the lube from contaminating the powder.

Your mileage may vary.

[Hell-Er High Water]

Rifling twist will determine how heavy a bullet that you can use.  I shoot a rifle built on an original Remington Rolling Block action with a Douglas 1:18" twist barrel, 28" long.

The standard 45-70 target load that I have been using for several years now uses the Lyman 457125 bullet.  Cast from 20:1 alloy this bullet weighs 520-525 grains depending on the batch of alloy.  All bullets are weighed to within +/- 0.5 grains or each other for a particular batch.  They are sized 0.459" and lubed with SPG lube.

My powder charge is 66.0 gr of GOEX FFg dropped into the case through a 30" drop tube.  A 0.060" Walter's wad is put over the powder and this and the powder are compressed about 0.060" in a seperate compression die.  A newspaper wad is put between the Walter's wad and the bullet.  This prevents the heavier wad from possibly sticking to the bullet base and affecting accuracy.  The bullet is seated so as to just set on the wad/powder column, not using the bullet to compress the powder.

Overall cartridge length is 2.930" so that the bullet just touches rifing.  This leaves one grease groove exposed.  This will vary from rifle to rifle so powder charge and/or powder compression can be varied to suit.  The cases are neck sized only after initial fire forming and are not crimped for this load.

I assemble this load in Winchester cases and use Federal Large Rifle Magnum primers.

With this load I have shot 1-1/16", 5 shot groups at 100 yards, from a bench rest with vernier tang and globe front sights.

This particular rifle likes the heavier bullets and does not do as well with bullets in the 400 grain range.

Measure the twist of your barrel and see if possibly a heavier bullet will improve your accuracy.

I throw this out to give you some options for your load development.

HHW