Enamel cooking/eating utensils

[Chance]

Don't know if this has been covered before (there's too many pages to trawl through!) but can you tell me what colour(s) would be right for period-correct enamel ware e.g. coffee pot, plate, mug etc?

[Books OToole]

I'm pretty sure gray is correct.  I'm not sure about other colors.

Books

[Delmonico]

Grey is the most common, almost all of it made in the US in that time period was the grey/white.  However if one studies photos of hospitals and resteraunt kitchens and even the White House Kitchen, all wite with a painted rim shows up by the late 1870's

Allso, there was a lot more colors such as greens, reds, blues and other made in Central Europe at the time.  Some but not much floated in.  The problem was the cost due to our high tarrifs on it.

Not really the best answer, but what I have found out based on my research.

The big problem I don't think anyone is making the grey right now and antuque collectors have run up the cost of the older grey/white.

Perhaps the best if you want to stay 100% period is tin ware, it was more common for camping and range work because it didn't chip.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy Chance,

Here in Kansas City, Missouri, USA I have been looking at grey/white enamel ware, also called granite ware in antique malls for about a year.  Dinner plates and pie plates in excellent condition with few chips cost $12 - $14.  Cups in similar condition run from $8 - $14.  Bowls are the hardest to find.  I also see a blue & white swirl on the outside with white on the inside.  This runs at the same or slightly higher prices.

I also see a moderate amount of white, inside & out with a black rim [or dark blue] at about 2/3 the price and mostly in excellent condition.

I've never been to the UK.  I know that you have lots of older stuff, but I would be quite interested to know what is available there!  Good hunting.

BTW, I just bought a small grey/white spitoon with a few pin holes in the bottom for $8.  I will use it for a prop in my camp.  May put some duct tape in the bottom just in case someone decides to use it. 

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Fellows,

Below is a snippet I pulled off the Michigan NCOWS Association e-group archives. It was printed in 'The Watch Dog', a Civil War journal for authentic re-enactors (from the days when the publication just started out and Nicky Hughes was editor). There was a blurb detailing a snippet on enamelware history that I was lucky enough to remember, recover, copy/paste below:

<extract from `The Watchdog", Winter 1993>
"The original process for enameling iron was developed in Europe
in the 1840's and 1850's, but enameling was only experimental
until the early 1870's. The earliest catalog description
illustrating granite ware for home use in America was in 1874. The
Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition of 1876 is credited with
popularizing porcelain enamelware to the American public. It was only
after 1876 that gray enamelware was mass-produced and mass marketed
to the country..."

I hope the above information can prove of use in this thread.

YMH&OS,

'Monterrey' J. Brass

[Frank Dalton]

Great info Monterrey!

The Watch Dog is definately a great publication for information on authentic articles used during and after the Civil War.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

The problem with original enamel ware that I think Delmonico and others have pointed out is that it was made with lead based paint that could cause lead poisening. If it is chipped or cracked in any way, I would be very leery of using it. Tin ware is the safest way to go and be authentic. You could use the blue speckled enamel ware to be safe, but I am not sure when it came into being. You could buy a set of the blue and paint it grey or white....but watch getting your coffe pot too close to the fire. 

Bill

[Chance]

Thanks, guys that's all good stuff. We can buy newly produced white with a blue rim (plates and mugs) very cheap and I believe I have seen dark blue.

As Bill says I'd be wary of using old pieces that may be chipped or cracked.

Chance

[Will Ketchum]

Fellows,

Below is a snippet I pulled off the Michigan NCOWS Association e-group archives. It was printed in 'The Watch Dog', a Civil War journal for authentic re-enactors (from the days when the publication just started out and Nicky Hughes was editor). There was a blurb detailing a snippet on enamelware history that I was lucky enough to remember, recover, copy/paste below:

<extract from `The Watchdog", Winter 1993>
"The original process for enameling iron was developed in Europe
in the 1840's and 1850's, but enameling was only experimental
until the early 1870's. The earliest catalog description
illustrating granite ware for home use in America was in 1874. The
Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition of 1876 is credited with
popularizing porcelain enamelware to the American public. It was only
after 1876 that gray enamelware was mass-produced and mass marketed
to the country..."

I hope the above information can prove of use in this thread.

YMH&OS,

'Monterrey' J. Brass

Makes me happy to be an 1890s guy   Which brings up a dilemma.  If an 1890s guy visits the camp of a fella doing an 1870s impression does he have to bring only the appropriate gear or can he be in some type of time warp

Will Ketchum

[Books OToole]

Will;

A good host will see that you are well set up.  If you go to Dr. Bob's camp you will eat off fine china.

Books

[Delmonico]

Just consider them some backwards person who hasn't came into the modern world.

As for the lead in the olt time enemalware, that is a point I'm not sure of, I have read some stuff that says yes, some that says no.

What I do know is that a lot of glazes, glass and enemal does contain lead.  What is the problem is if it has not been fired to a high enough temp to bond all the lead atoms.

Lead crystal glass can contain up to about 10% lead, but the high heat required to make it makes it safe.  I just don't trust old stuff.

[Books OToole]

One of those interesting factoids is:

Good pewter is 98% tin, the remaining 2% is copper, antimony & lead.  It is perfectly safe to use.  My pre-Civil war impressions all use pewter.  Alas it was out of style by the post war era.

A "tin" plate, is not tin.  It is steel/iron and will rust.  But it is good for just about any time period in American history.  This is what the working cow hand would have used.

There are two mess chests pictured in Echoes of Glory.  One in the Confederate Vol. and one in the Union.  One is all "tin" and the other has "tin" cooking utensels and china plate & bowl.

I have built a personal Mess/Liquor chest based on the Confederate chest and a liquor chest from British Campaign Furntiure.  For pre-civil war I use a pewter plate and bowl.  Post Civi War I exchange them for plain white china. (You can get a plain white china plate at Walmart for $ .99.)

Books

[I have componets to build a couple more Mess/Liquor chests if any one is interested.]

[Delmonico]

Pewter with the slight lead content might be save to use for just eating out of, as well as the old enemal-wear if it contains lead, but I will not risk it.  As for the longer time of cooking esp. an acid food I would be very wary.  (Read old coffee pot here) 

An incedent in 2002 brought this to my attention in spades.  I went to a 3 day event and when I got there I had forgot the enemal-ware coffee cups.  I did have a tin one of unknown origin, but it was old, my Grandmother had gave it to me, it came off a farm sale over 50 years ago.  Well I drank lots of coffee and Gatorade that weekend (read acid)  About three weeks later I ended up in the hospital with my gastro problems, well the first thing we did was a heavy metals test.  It was below the danger point, but higher than I have ever seen before. 

I had not done any casting or work on the indoor range that summer, the lead has never been as high again.  My doctor and my corpman friend Matt and I all agreed that the most likely source was the tin cup, no retired and never in the camp gear.

Any one reloading, casting, doing ren-actments and such owes it to themselves to have a heavy metals test at least once a year, this was an OSHA requirement when I painted for a living and a practice I still follow.  My doctor has had no problem slipping them in anytime I have GI problems or when I have a physical, the insurance company has never bawked.

[Delmonico]

If one wants to put together a cheap and easy mess kit that should be 100% safe and 100% period, got find a pie plat that is tin plated, they can still be bought new or the can be found at garage sales and thrift stores.  These are pressed out and have no solder joints that could contain lead.  The pating is 100% tin, lead or other heavy metals in it affect the plating process. 

Go find two white earth-ware mugs, the kind you see in diners.  Since they could break, that will leave a spare.

Got to the thrift store and find and old time silverware, a fork, spoon and a rounded butter knife, they don't need to match.  Yes there were second hand stores back then that one could find such odds and ends.

You are ready to eat then, I provide wreck pans and hot soapy water, for you to wash them in when I'm around.

[Lone Gunman]

Here's an interesting link about the gray enamelware , seems it was patented in St Louis in 1876.

[Delmonico]

This though is just a patent for an improved method, this means it was around, at least in patent form before this.  The dates and information on enemal-ware, like many things are all over the map.

Thanks for the link though Gerorge, just another piece in this puzzle.