Wow, someone in Sturgis SD bought the American.  I hope he is SASS/CAS.

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on December 26, 2024, 10:20:55 AMWow, someone in Sturgis SD bought the American.  I hope he is SASS/CAS.

I figured it wouldn't last long, quite desirable piece.
  If'n I'd had the spare duckets, it could have winged its way to Florida.
Alas, planets were not aligned...

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on December 26, 2024, 10:20:55 AMWow, someone in Sturgis SD bought the American.  I hope he is SASS/CAS.

That explains why I couldn't find it when searching current auctions on GunBroker this morning!  Found it now.  Good deal for all.

Wow, TL, sorry to hear of your retirement! I sympathize with your decision. Personally, I haven't shot any matches since the pandemic, and then the weather in Eastern Colorado has gone bananas, too hot or too cold. Then, I came down with arthritis in my right shoulder about six months ago, and now have a hernia that I'm having trouble finding a surgeon who specializing in that sort that can get to it in less than a few weeks. At 82, I guess it's time to hang up my guns.    I'll still hang around the electronic campfire, however.

All my best to you, TL! Have a Happy and Healthy New Year!

An update and comment on an article in American Handgunner about the S&W 2000. One thing comparing the original Schofield with the 2000. While I can NOT document it, I believe that the reason the originals had the shortened cylinder that would not take the .45 Colt cartridge was the fact that the iron (not steel) prototype Schofields would not take the original 40 gr. powder charge of the Army round. In point of fact, the first Colt's SAA's had iron cylinders and a number of them blew up! Colt's then switched to steel cylinders, and the Army reduced the load to 35 gr. of powder behind the 255 gr. bullet. Later the charge was reduced to 28 gr of BP.

S&W shortened the Schofield cylinder and lengthened the rear end of the barrel to meet the front of the shortened cylinder. They left the frame to original length, with about a 0.10" gap between the frame and the cylinder. When S&W brought out the 2000, Roy Jinks claimed they use one of his originals as a pattern and made the new version identical to the original. (I discussed this with him at the 2000 Shot Show, but didn't argue with him about it. However, the 2000 not only had the cylinder shortened to accept the .45 Schofield (aka .45 Revolver Ball), but also shortened the frame so that a longer cylinder that could take the .45 Colt could not be installed. I believe S&W was afraid people would do just that, which some of the Italian outfits that made their clones with the long cylinder did. With modern steel, and advice to not attempt to overload the Italian models, these did okay. The frames of these Italian guns are the same as the original length. Just the cylinders are longer. Just sayin'...

Oh, BTW, got the hernia fixes in January. Still haven't done any more shooting, although the shoulder isn't bothering me as much.

Ride easy, Pards!
Trailrider

TL, we have bit of history trading, buying and selling.
You bought the "Peck" Blue and the Grey Spencer do you recall ?
And I bought your original S&W 2nd Mod. Russian and all the reloading brass Etc. which I still have.
As to retirement, I'd only read your instalments in the Chronical.
Now, I have no real reason to seek it out 

I haven't shot a match since before covid myself. and now just shoot
 mostly my milsurps and CCW out back in the pasture, and on occasion the county range.
 

 
 

Trailrider, I greatly respect ya, but some old stories just won't die.

Why are the 45 Colt and the 45 S&W the way they are?  Why are most things the way they are: Money.

The original 45 Colt powder charge was 30 grains, and that is the only charge ever loaded by Frankford arsenal. That amount of powder filled the case beneath the bullet, that seems to be the criteria at the time. It is often forgotten that those early cases were inside primed, with a copper cup inserted into the case to hold the priming compound, giving an internal volume surprisingly close to a modern W-W case.

The 1st prototype was chambered in 44 Russian, soon changed to 44 American.  In late May, 1873, the Army sent a request to Colt for a 45 caliber cartridge.  The first 45 Colt cartridge was fired on June 7th 1873.  Yes, the 45 Colt was developed over the span of a couple of weeks. It was a 1.285 case with a 250 grain bullet over 30 grains powder.  Colt seemed to have simply designed the case to fit the cylinder. 

 All Prototypes (there were only 3) survived initial testing and 2 are still in existence, with the other still known in the 1890s.  The Frames were Iron prior to 1880.

Soon after its introduction, commercial manufacturers began upping the powder charge, because then as now, power sells.  35 to 38 to 40 grains, with the 40 grain charge 1st documented in 1880.  Also, these were outside primed "Balloon head" cases that had more volume than the early inside primed cases.  That 40 grain charge was loaded well into the 1930s, with no reports of blown up guns.

S&W cylinders were the length they were because that was the length they were tooled up to make.  Selling 10s of thousands of guns to the russians they were not interested in changing that tooling.  As well the long small rimmed Colt case did not lend itself well to their extractors.  Easier to talk the army into taking a cartridge using less copper, less powder and less lead (The country was in the middle of a financial panic).  That a 230 grain bullet in the low 800s fps turned out to be a dandy combat load was a happy accident.

(C. Kenneth Moores "Colt Single Action Army Revolver Study: New Discoveries")