Quote from: 9245 on December 18, 2024, 11:58:37 PMI did, it was interesting, though I'm curious what 3F would do vs 2F.

My understanding is that they loaded with 2F in the 19th century, however "2F" in the 19th century was closer to 3F today.  Also all I have is 3F and 4F.

He mentioned though using a neck expander die for compressing the charges though, but how do you do that?

I have the same understanding of the granulations. Due to the compression involved, I doubt there's going to be a significant difference between 2f and 3f. What brand of 3f do you have? Bryan has some data in his spreadsheets using Goex 3f, which you can compare to his and John Kort's results with both Swiss and Goex 2f. Go to this page on Bryan's site, and click on the small blue links at the bottom of the page starting with "Black Powder":
https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/ballistics-handloading/44-40-google-docs-the-data/part-2-44-40-google-docs?authuser=0

Compare that data with John's results (which I know you've seen already) here:
https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/contributors/john-kort/two-peas-in-a-pod-by-john-kort?authuser=0

As to the mention of using a neck expander plug to compress, it seems less than ideal. The compression plug needs to be fairly flat on the face to leave the compressed powder with a good fit to the flat base of the bullet without having to compress further than necessary.

Quote from: Little Dalton on December 19, 2024, 08:28:17 AMI have the same understanding of the granulations. Due to the compression involved, I doubt there's going to be a significant difference between 2f and 3f. What brand of 3f do you have? Bryan has some data in his spreadsheets using Goex 3f, which you can compare to his and John Kort's results with both Swiss and Goex 2f. Go to this page on Bryan's site, and click on the small blue links at the bottom of the page starting with "Black Powder":
https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/ballistics-handloading/44-40-google-docs-the-data/part-2-44-40-google-docs?authuser=0

Compare that data with John's results (which I know you've seen already) here:
https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/contributors/john-kort/two-peas-in-a-pod-by-john-kort?authuser=0

As to the mention of using a neck expander plug to compress, it seems less than ideal. The compression plug needs to be fairly flat on the face to leave the compressed powder with a good fit to the flat base of the bullet without having to compress further than necessary.

Just trying to avoid buying another die if I can help it.  I'm open to suggestions.

I'm using Swiss.  I have both 3F and 4F.

Excellent historical data on the 44 WCF.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jy0pGqWPRx2HOQqufbcnEM1lv6tCWBJsCOB8vLIDOIg/edit?gid=1905899731#gid=1905899731

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester

It has been stated by BPCR Silhouette shooters that Swiss does not respond as well to heavy compression as Goex does.

Actual range-testing with your own gun and your own loading components will tell.

Personally I'd take "sub-sonic" accuracy over "super-sonic" scatter-gun patterns anyday.

Quote from: Sedalia Dave on December 19, 2024, 11:14:33 AMExcellent historical data on the 44 WCF.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jy0pGqWPRx2HOQqufbcnEM1lv6tCWBJsCOB8vLIDOIg/edit?gid=1905899731#gid=1905899731

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester

Never saw that first one before.  Thanks! 

Quote from: Cap'n Redneck on December 19, 2024, 11:25:06 AMIt has been stated by BPCR Silhouette shooters that Swiss does not respond as well to heavy compression as Goex does.

Actual range-testing with your own gun and your own loading components will tell.

Personally I'd take "sub-sonic" accuracy over "super-sonic" scatter-gun patterns anyday.

I agree to a great extent. Fortunately, it seems we don't have to make that choice in this case- John and Bryan were both able to get 4" and smaller 10 shot groups with their heavily compressed Swiss loads, sometimes much less. I get 4" groups as well, out of my Uberti '73. Not sharpshooting by any stretch, but a good balance of power and accuracy for deer out to 100 yards or so. After all, the .44WCF is not really a BPCR contender, though John played around with 300 yard shooting quite a bit.

Quote from: 9245 on December 19, 2024, 08:44:17 AMJust trying to avoid buying another die if I can help it.  I'm open to suggestions.

I'm using Swiss.  I have both 3F and 4F.

Nice, I've shot a ton of Swiss 3f loads and enjoy it. I also have been cheaping out on a compression die so far and have been using a homemade plug in a Lee body.

I am almost certain this plug would work in the Lee expander die you already have, despite the blurb about 2-7/8" cartridges. Might be worth a try:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1222/1/die-43-compress