I just got a new to me Pietta Great Western ii "Californian" in .44-40, (the same one that I mentioned in the thread about .44 special conversion), it appeared unfired in the original box.
 
I got it, cycled it, dry fired (very little, just to confirm function, I didn't realize at the time that that was a bad idea with SAAs as this is my first one and I hadn't heard that until after I started researching common issues with these), everything was fine, better than fine actually, and I even took the cylinder out and checked the pin for any corrosion, nothing, and it still cycled fine after reassembly, but now, after finally getting ahold of some .44-40 (I had to order some sunce I could not find any in the local stores and I am not yet setup to reload for it as the dies were also only just ordered and the brass seems to be unobtainium at the momebg), the first time I attempted to load it it broke.  Didn't even get a chance to fire.  Cylinder locked up after loading the last round.
 
I was able to move it just enough to eject the last round I loaded, but the cylinder would not rotate anymore.
 
So I tried removing the cylinder, the cylinder pin was likewise also frozen, I ended up having to pull it out with needle nose pliers.
 
Thinking it was an issue with the pin I then tried to cycle it again, with the cylinder removed and the hammer locked back to the ready to fire position as per normal,  and then froze there with a dead trigger.  I cannot drop the hammer.  I tried putting the cylinder pin back in (sans cylinder) and other than again requiring pliers to remove again there was no change.
 
What happened and how can I fix it?

Update:

I pressed on the hand and it released the hammer, I reassembled it and it worked fine again, but only when empty.  I attempted to load it again and the problem repeated.
 
The cylinder was getting hard to turn and by the last round the hammer would no longer move back past half cock.  I fiddled with the cylinder pin and I got it to work intermittently if I had the pin partially removed but ultimately the cylinder would jam and so would the hammer.
 
I finally had to remove the cylinder to unload again.
 
But on reassembly it would work fine again, but, again, as soon as I loaded cartridges it would jam.
 
I noticed though after finally giving up for the day and packing up that the cartridges that I had been using were all scratched across the back.  Here is a picture, look at the last row of cartridges carefully, see the scratches?  Only those ones have those scratches.



Any ideas?

Ammo, headspace  or both outta spec.

Ammo.
wM1

Check for burrs on the recoil shield, often the hole that the firing pin comes through gets a burr as well.

Well Now 

Plus one for Kent Shootwell and 45 Dragoon.  First thing to check is insure there are NO Burrs on the recoil shield.  Don't just look, run you finger lightly over the entire recoil shield.  Should be NO Burrs.  Then look at the screw that holds the loading gate onto the recoil shield.  Should not protrude.  Then check you're installing the Cylinder Base correctly with the "notches" aligned with the "latch."  After you finish all that, check your Headspace and End Shake.  Headspace is optimum at .004 and End Shake should be .001.

From where/who did you get this GW II??  It appears it may have been "not quite" an advertised.  It's actually kinda hard to "break" a GW II but "Dry Fire" without Snap Caps is a major NO NO,

I took some measurements today, the gap between the end of the cylinder and the front of the frame was 0.1015 inches, the gap between the back of the cylinder and back of the frame was 0.0805 inches.

There is a noticeable bur around the firing pin hole as well.

Prolly dry fired without snap caps, perhaps a lot.


Does the GW II have a FP bushing or just a FP hole in the recoil shield?
In any case that FP burr needs dressing. If it is just drilled hole, consider having a FP bushing installed for a more harmonious outcome.
You may also want to check for burrs on the recoil shield step.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542438
 

Quote from: Major 2 on December 14, 2024, 04:17:21 PMProlly dry fired without snap caps, perhaps a lot.

 
Does the GW II have a FP bushing or just a FP hole in the recoil shield?
In any cast that FP burr needs dressing. If it is just drilled hole, consider having a FP bushing installed for a more harmonious outcome.
 You may also want to check for burrs on the recoil shield step.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542438
 

It appears to have a bushing.  The burr is very obvious in the picture:

Then a diamond file is your huckleberry if you're handy.
Maybe, see a competent Smith is prudent.

 

I would grind that bushing with a ball burr in a high speed air motor. It might take 30 seconds.

I intended to stay of this issue but like others have stated Never, Never dryfire continuously without snapcaps to cushion the blows.  I do not know how new you are to any of what you have been questioning of late on the forums but I would suggest you start using the search function available and 'read, read' as much as you can.  It 'will' help you in the future from more costly mistakes with firearms handling and all associated accessories.  If this comment is off base and you do have years of experience then I -- 'Apologize', I know accidents can and do happen to us all.

It is well know to most with experience, that the bottle-neck cartridges (44-40, 38-40 and 32-20) can have shoulder issue between old and new manufactured firearms and even the reloading equipment, that we use.  Even with the manufactured ammo that is available.  So, that being said search on here about 'sized brass not fitting in my cylinders or rifles'.  If you do, you will find that some people have to find the correct reloading dies to properly fit the brass to their chambers or even grind sizing dies to push the shoulder back some.

This leads to my next suggestion for you to check with this issue of yours.  Take your cylinder out of the revolver and insert a shell from your bought ammo into each and every chamber (the same shell in each cylinder, you may want to do this with each and every shell) to make certain that shells full seat and lays against the face of the cylinder.  You may find that one chamber is cut short or that your store bought shells need the shoulders pushed back for your chambers.

You did buy what is considered, a very well made firearm/cowboy revolver.  Truly sorry you are having these problems when trying to get started up.

Quote from: Black River Smith on December 15, 2024, 04:27:57 PMI intended to stay of this issue but like others have stated Never, Never dryfire continuously without snapcaps to cushion the blows.  I do not know how new you are to any of what you have been questioning of late on the forums but I would suggest you start using the search function available and 'read, read' as much as you can.  It 'will' help you in the future from more costly mistakes with firearms handling and all associated accessories.  If this comment is off base and you do have years of experience then I -- 'Apologize', I know accidents can and do happen to us all.

It is well know to most with experience, that the bottle-neck cartridges (44-40, 38-40 and 32-20) can have shoulder issue between old and new manufactured firearms and even the reloading equipment, that we use.  Even with the manufactured ammo that is available.  So, that being said search on here about 'sized brass not fitting in my cylinders or rifles'.  If you do, you will find that some people have to find the correct reloading dies to properly fit the brass to their chambers or even grind sizing dies to push the shoulder back some.

This leads to my next suggestion for you to check with this issue of yours.  Take your cylinder out of the revolver and insert a shell from your bought ammo into each and every chamber (the same shell in each cylinder, you may want to do this with each and every shell) to make certain that shells full seat and lays against the face of the cylinder.  You may find that one chamber is cut short or that your store bought shells need the shoulders pushed back for you chambers.

You did buy what is considered, a very well made firearm/cowboy revolver.  Truly sorry you are having these problems when trying to get started up.

I have been a shooter for years, but only modern stuff and milsurp, I'm totally new to cowboy action stuff.

I have tested the chambers as you suggested and the rounds drop in fine and I detect no gap between rim and cylinder.  I tried double checking that with some digital calipers but got inconsistent results, meaning I would get a different result each time I measured, without moving anything, of between 0.057 and 0.068, measured from the cylinder face to the top of the rim.  But again, if I retook the same measurement of the same cartridge in the same chamber again I would get a different result, but always within that range.  I should point out though that my calipers are the cheapest I could get and keep randomly restarting and resetting zero (probably because the battery door is missing and the battery is being held in by a rubber band and a piece of cardboard).  However the case rims measure a consistent 0.059-0.060, using the jaws of the caliper vs the back end.

You need to get a set of feeler gauges for those types of measurements you are talking about (base to cylinder face; rear base to recoil shield; cylinder face to barrel).  A caliber is too large for these tight measurements.  Or I even have a machinist depth caliber tool for a different look at cylinder spacings(bushing to frame and rachet to cylinder face) and base thickness and setback.

But definitely a feel gauge with rectangular blades.

Quote from: Black River Smith on December 15, 2024, 08:41:28 PMYou need to get a set of feeler gauges for those types of measurements you are talking about (base to cylinder face; rear base to recoil shield; cylinder face to barrel).  A caliber is too large for these tight measurements.  Or I even have a machinist depth caliber tool for a different look at cylinder spacings(bushing to frame and rachet to cylinder face) and base thickness and setback.

But definitely a feel gauge with rectangular blades.

I just ordered three different sets of feeler gauges, they are due for delivery late this evening.  I'll update when they arrive.  May have to stack some together to get a measurement though, they are thinner than I would have liked.

Stacking is what you do, with these.  Combine them to just slide in the space gentle.

Quote from: Black River Smith on December 16, 2024, 09:21:31 AMStacking is what you do, with these.  Combine them to just slide in the space gentle.

Good to know, obviously I have not used these before.

  MAJOR 2

YES!!  The GW II has a bushing OEM in the recoil shield.  And if that bushing has a Burr as shown in the photo's the gun has been seriously abused.  The measurements taken by 9245 are meaningless.

Eureka!  I think I fixed it.  About 30 seconds with a diamond Jewlers file took off the bur, it could still use a polish with the India stone to remove the last tiny bit of stickiness, but it now cycles fully with cases inserted, just a tiny amount of stickiness left that I will work out with the polishing stone, I'm hesitant to go any farther with the file.

Not that it makes much difference now, but I finally got my feeler gauges (3 days late) and my barrel to cylinder gap is 0.007 and the gap from the back of the cylinder to the recoil shield is 0.064.