Quote from: 9245 on December 18, 2024, 11:12:35 AMOK I finally got my manuals, and my dies, so now I have data from Lee, Lyman, and Hornady.

As far as black powder loads I found the lyman black powder manual to not be of much use, all I got out of it was basically to use a full case load, which I already knew, their actual data was pathetic, apparently whoever did it was terrified of compression as they consider a 30 grain load with room left at the top to be a full case load, their velocity numbers were nowhere near the period loadings and they had no data at all for Swiss.  So I think I will just do Swiss 3F up to the case mouth and compress it until I can make the bullet fit (Lyman 427098).

As for smokeless loads, there was some actual interesting data.  The only powder that was in common across all sources though was Unique, which I came up with 6.3-7.9 as the correct charge weight (Those are the Lyman numbers, the Lee data did not specify if it was for revolvers or rifles (7.6-8.6) and the Hornady numbers were just plain weak sauce popgun loads 5.1-5.9 for rifles and 5.7-6.5 for revolvers).  According to the Lyman numbers that would give 853-1044 fps out of a 6 inch barrel and 895-1127 fps out of a  19 inch barrel.

Did you check out Bryan Austin's website that I referred you to before? It's really the best resource for reloading information and data. Most modern writers and testers are basically useless when it comes to this caliber. Here's the website again:

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/ballistics-handloading

OK I finally got my manuals, and my dies, so now I have data from Lee, Lyman, and Hornady.

As far as black powder loads I found the lyman black powder manual to not be of much use, all I got out of it was basically to use a full case load, which I already knew, their actual data was pathetic, apparently whoever did it was terrified of compression as they consider a 30 grain load with room left at the top to be a full case load, their velocity numbers were nowhere near the period loadings and they had no data at all for Swiss.  So I think I will just do Swiss 3F up to the case mouth and compress it until I can make the bullet fit (Lyman 427098).

As for smokeless loads, there was some actual interesting data.  The only powder that was in common across all sources though was Unique, which I came up with 6.3-7.9 as the correct charge weight (Those are the Lyman numbers, the Lee data did not specify if it was for revolvers or rifles (7.6-8.6) and the Hornady numbers were just plain weak sauce popgun loads 5.1-5.9 for rifles and 5.7-6.5 for revolvers).  According to the Lyman numbers that would give 853-1044 fps out of a 6 inch barrel and 895-1127 fps out of a  19 inch barrel.

Not that it makes much difference now, but I finally got my feeler gauges (3 days late) and my barrel to cylinder gap is 0.007 and the gap from the back of the cylinder to the recoil shield is 0.064.

I know you've already ordered the Lee dies, but just a heads up: I had a major issue with the Lee sizing die, it wouldn't set the shoulder of the case back far enough, so I had to grind a decent amount of length off and re-flare the mouth of the die. I did it a little at a time til it was right. I load .431 diameter bullets for my .430 Uberti bores, and so the expander plug in the Lee die was way too small. It's also a bit short. Fortunately, NOE makes fantastic replacement expander plugs in about any size you need. My next problem was with crimping, the Lee Factory Crimp Die was creating bulges that were just bad enough to cause chambering issues in my Uberti Revolver. Apparently Uberti .44WCF revolvers are kinda infamous for having tight chambers relative to their modern .429+ bores. I finally switched to crimping with the Redding Profile Crimp Die like Cliff, and I am  also totally sold on it. Finally, I, like you, wish to load black powder loads as close to the original specs as I can get in modern solid head cases. This requires using a compression die for the powder, so that you don't bulge the case or deform the soft bullet in seating. Also, you probably know this already, but for this particular caliber, Winchester used pure lead bullets.

As to your press situation, I can only relate my own experiences and preferences. I have loaded full-case black powder .44WCF for six or seven years now, on a Lee Classic Turret mostly, though I did try a modified Lee Loadmaster for a while (too complicated/too much powder spillage for this particular application). Personally, though I also am not loading huge volumes (usually less than 200 rounds at a time) I am spoiled to with the turret press and wouldn't want to go to a single stage. That said, because I have to use a powder compression die, separate crimp die, and prefer to use a bullet drop die, the four stations on the Classic Turret are just not enough, and I have to break the process into two halves with dies in two turrets. I plan to get one of Lee's new Ultimate Turret Presses soon for the extra stations. Here's my current die progression below. I use a Lee Pro Auto Disk measure, I am one of the many that aren't scared to use a standard measure. There's simply no proof of any danger, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Of course, one could easily hand-drop charges or use a drop tube with the powder-through expander die if desired.

 Decap, wash brass (I wet tumble)

1. Resize, prime
2. Expand, charge (Lee Powder-Through expander die with NOE plug)
3. Compress powder (Buffalo Arms has various options, I use a homemade plug in a Lee Universal Expander die body)
4. Drop bullet (Lee inline bullet drop)
5. Seat bullet, slightly start crimp
6. Finish crimp (Redding Profile Crimp die)

I really think the new six-station turret press is going to suit me to a T. (anyone wanna buy a loadmaster? )

This cartridge can be a little finicky to get just right, but in my experience that is more because of the guns & dies (modern manufacturers mixing old and new dimensions) and because of my absolute need for powerful black powder loads- not the actual cartridge itself. I have found it to be extremely rewarding though to finally get a reliable process figured out that turns out fantastic ammunition that closely replicates the powerful .44WCF cartridge that played such a huge role in winning the West, and put tons of meat on the table for folks across the continent. I have taken 4 deer with this cartridge in my Uberti/Cimarron 1873 Winchester rifle, and as long as I put the bullet in the vitals it does an admirable job out to 100 yards- and I'm sure it would do it to nearly twice that if I could be accurate enough.

I hunt in Missouri and started over 50 years ago with a 45/70 trapdoor and shot deer with it. I now use a 94 Winchester in 45 colt,  The alternative season is coming up at end of the month and I will take my hawken in 54 and my 1872 pistol in 45 colt.  Don't worry deer are pretty safe just like being in the woods. The trophy buck is still there I see him on occasion but not during season. Good hunting.

Quote from: Graveyard Jack on December 17, 2024, 07:48:17 AMI typically make right handed, strong side sheaths and wear them wherever.

Thanks.  That is what I was thinking

I like a holster to be relatively closely fitted to the belt it'll ride on. A knife sheath I like a little oversized so I can move it around and cant it how I want. I typically make right handed, strong side sheaths and wear them wherever.

Eureka!  I think I fixed it.  About 30 seconds with a diamond Jewlers file took off the bur, it could still use a polish with the India stone to remove the last tiny bit of stickiness, but it now cycles fully with cases inserted, just a tiny amount of stickiness left that I will work out with the polishing stone, I'm hesitant to go any farther with the file.

So....did you not know there is NO requirement for head wear of any kind in the Rules and Regulations: approved lists or un-approved lists or anywhere in NCOWS. Just as RCJ has posted period photographs of 'real'period correct people of the day; not everyone has a head cover. My favorite large format reference book of Mathew Brady's photographic works oddly enough rarely exhibits head coverings on everyone photographed. What head-ware I choose is more of a firing line personal safety issue. Nobody likes a screaming ass HOT piece of black powder discharged brass flipping down their shirt collar. Tends to make one dance about in a not so safe prancing with loaded weapons. Although such gyrations are most amusing. 

  MAJOR 2

YES!!  The GW II has a bushing OEM in the recoil shield.  And if that bushing has a Burr as shown in the photo's the gun has been seriously abused.  The measurements taken by 9245 are meaningless.