I'll start off by saying I know everyone opened this page thinking that I'm not working the action properly, but I can promise that's not it.
I have a Cimarron 45 Colt Spencer carbine and it surprisingly will feed any length 45 Colt that I've fed it. Where the problems arise is with ejecting/extracting certain brass. I say certain because Fiocchi brass extracts and ejects fine. Starline, Winchester, and others hang up in the chamber. When I work the lever with force the ejector will just stop at hitting the rim and from what I can tell it will cause the mouth of the case to drag and not extract straight back. I can tilt the barrel straight up and with very light fingernail pressure remove the case, but not by working the lever. If I operate the action normally with Fiocchi (G.F.L.) cases will eject normally.
Has anyone else had ejection/extraction issues with the 45 Colt having case drag in the chamber and only with specific brands of brass?
That seems strange. If anyone knows, it will be these guys! If they don't, I suggest Voodoo (or calling Chiappa).
edit: I thought you were going to place a 56-50 brass backorder back in September. Did that not work out?
I still have that on backorder. I figured I'd pick one up that I load for in the meantime. It chambers great and is fun to shoot. But if using anything other than Fiocchi brass it seems to drag at the case mouth and not want to come out.
Have you measured the Fiocchi to see if it is different in any dimension that the others? Especially length, I might think.
I just measured the Fiocchi 1.2775", Starline 1.2660, and Winchester 1.2775". The Fiocchi is good and the winchester is the worst offender but they measure the same.
Well can't blame length! I guess I have to ask since you didn't say, are you firing these rounds or are these dummies?
Paging El Supremo! :)
These are fired rounds. I just took some of the casings and single loaded one (Winchester), when I operate the lever it freezes and won't budge. But if I cycle the lever slightly forward where the ejector isn't touching the casing yet and then tilt the rifle up the casing will drop right out the back.
Sorry, just saw your nice "Paging....." signal:
Have not used Fio cases, but wonder if the rim thickness is excessive. Shouldn't be, but ... . Italian stuff conforms, more or less, to EU's CIP dim's, which are metric AND can vary from batch to batch as well as from SAAMI's. The CIP drawing can be way diff than a specific case and also the Fio factory drawing.
Smiles,
El Supremo/Kevin Tnny
I guess I'm wondering if actually firing rounds in the gun with other than Fiocchi brass will still hang up or extract properly.
Quote from: Mwf203 on Today at 08:38:47 AMThese are fired rounds. I just took some of the casings and single loaded one (Winchester), when I operate the lever it freezes and won't budge. But if I cycle the lever slightly forward where the ejector isn't touching the casing yet and then tilt the rifle up the casing will drop right out the back.
I think he means he fired them and had the problem, then he also tried what he just described with one of his fired brass.
Yea, all of these different ones I've fired. It would load all rounds perfectly. It is the extraction/ejection that is the issue. Will happen even if I single load or it's the last round. I've even single loaded an empty case into the chamber and with the action partially worked (opens enough for case to fall out but no pressure from ejector) the case will fall out. But when action is fully worked it sticks to the point you have to work back to where the action is only partially worked to extract.
How do the ejector grooves compare on the different brands of brass?
Ok, rim OD's and rim thicknesses seem to be ruled out:
Maybe extractor's tip is jamming on case body ahead of rim.
My arm's length guess is it has to be a dimensional difference creating pressure.
Italians are known for that. Haha. Oops.
For kicks, try shortening the FIO brass an eigth-inch. Thanks.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
Quote from: El Supremo on Today at 12:12:35 PMOk, rim OD's and rim thicknesses seem to be ruled out:
Maybe extractor's tip is jamming on case body ahead of rim.
My arm's length guess is it has to be a dimensional difference creating pressure.
Italians are known for that. Haha. Oops.
For kicks, try shortening the FIO brass an eigth-inch. Thanks.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
But why would the Fiocchi brass work but nothing else?
Thanks:
Sorry; was driving/parked and miss-read.
I still think there's a dimension gremlin somewhere.
Old rule: Make a "reverse" change. Turn something around, upside down, etc.
Some section of the problematic case(s) or a contacting part is/are interfering.
Still, this is a first for me, and since this Forum doesn't note the situation historically, I think we are missing a contact point.
Thanks,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
So I stripped the block out and set the different casings against the ejector and found that the Fiocchi has a different shoulder that allows the ejector to sit tightly against the rim and the shoulder. The other brands have a different shoulder which allows more gap. I think without it fitting tightly in there it's allowing the ejector to pull the casing out in an angle and that is where it sticks.
Only downside is it appears that Taylor's is out of ejectors for .45 colt.
Nice work, Mwf203:
Thanks for your persistence.
BTW: Please share how it groups and your load.
Smiles,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
MWF203, try calling Chiappa. If you explain it to them they might just send you the extractor. Good luck.