Hello, Yesterday I was at a gun show and picked up a revolver. With it they said was an original period holster.
Questions;
Is this an authentic period holster?
What period is the holster from?
Any idea what the markings mean?
Thank you for your help
WWI - M1917 Holster - designed to be worn on the right hip and designed for both the S&W and Colt Model 1917 Revolver.
Markings are for the unit it originally belonged to and can vary wildly - in this case - 'Battery E' likely originally owned it and the numerals were the item on the TO&E assigned.
It originally went to an Artillery outfit.
Normal manufacturer's markings are on the reverse side.
Scouts Out!
Quote from: St. George on March 17, 2025, 10:02:21 AMWWI - M1917 Holster - designed to be worn on the right hip and designed for both the S&W and Colt Model 1917 Revolver.
Markings are for the unit it originally belonged to and can vary wildly - in this case - 'Battery E' likely originally owned it and the numerals were the item on the TO&E assigned.
It originally went to an Artillery outfit.
Normal manufacturer's markings are on the reverse side.
Scouts Out!
Spot on, in fact 83rd Field Artillery Regiment
Quote from: St. George on March 17, 2025, 10:02:21 AMWWI - M1917 Holster - designed to be worn on the right hip and designed for both the S&W and Colt Model 1917 Revolver.
Markings are for the unit it originally belonged to and can vary wildly - in this case - 'Battery E' likely originally owned it and the numerals were the item on the TO&E assigned.
It originally went to an Artillery outfit.
Normal manufacturer's markings are on the reverse side.
Scouts Out!
Thank you.
That tells me that while it may not be original to the gun it could have been paired with it a long time. Or, just something someone added later on at any time. ;D
The holster came with a Colt 1878 DA revolver that I just picked up.
Quote from: Major 2 on March 17, 2025, 10:11:20 AMSpot on, in fact 83rd Field Artillery Regiment
Pretty neat.
Markers mark would be on the reverse side on the belt loop...
There was several...
yours show much wear there however look for
*Rock Island Arsenal or RIA 1917
* G&K 1917 - 1918 Graton and Knight
these are the most common encountered nice score BTW
Quote from: Major 2 on March 17, 2025, 10:41:22 AMMarkers mark would be on the reverse side on the belt loop...
There was several...
yours show much wear there however look for
*Rock Island Arsenal or RIA 1917
* G&K 1917 - 1918 Graton and Knight
these are the most common encountered nice score BTW
Thanks a lot. I will look for the makers mark when I get back home. Great photo by the way.
Lots of history right there. Very nice find.
Do you have a photo of the pistol you could post? 1878 DAs are among my favorites.
Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on March 17, 2025, 11:23:06 AMLots of history right there. Very nice find.
Do you have a photo of the pistol you could post? 1878 DAs are among my favorites.
I will take a photo and post it when I get back home.
It is not the same gun in Cas City Forum Colt Firearms "Picked Up Another Colt 1877 Thunderer"?
The 1917 holster is one of my favorite's.
My Dad had this one for his S&W Hand Ejector he carried as a Coast Guard Volunteer, Coast Watch Mosquito fleet in the early Months of 1942.
Seen here with my S&W 1917 Revolver and below that is Dad's hand ejector
Quote from: Major 2 on March 17, 2025, 01:54:18 PMIt is not the same gun in Cas City Forum Colt Firearms "Picked Up Another Colt 1877 Thunderer"?
The 1917 holster is one of my favorite's.
My Dad had this one for his S&W Hand Ejector he carried as a Coast Guard Volunteer, Coast Watch Mosquito fleet in the early Months of 1942.
Seen here with my S&W 1917 Revolver and below that is Dad's hand ejector
Very neat holster and revolver.
Nope, I picked up the Thunderer last week and then went to a gun show yesterday and picked up a 1877 Lighting in .38 and a Colt 1878 in 45 Colt.
Sorry about the lighting in the photos Marshal. The sun was at bad angle this evening.
These are the two that I got from the gun show this past weekend. The 1878 is in 45 Colt. The 1877 is in 38 Colt.
The holster came with the 1878 and fits it wonderfully.
Beautiful guns. Showing their age doesn't hurt a bit (although your Thunderer sure is gorgeous!) You had a good week!
Quote from: Hair Trigger Jim on March 17, 2025, 07:28:44 PMBeautiful guns. Showing their age doesn't hurt a bit (although your Thunderer sure is gorgeous!) You had a good week!
Agreed 100%.
Very cool Rube,
Quote from: Major 2 on March 17, 2025, 11:25:54 PMVery cool Rube,
Thanks. Happy to add them both to the collection.
Marvelous pair, Rube. They both are fine examples. I like the looks of an 1877 best but the 1878 is a better gun. They are perhaps the most comfortable feeling pistols ever made, at least for my hand.
Holy cats! Those are beauties!
Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on March 18, 2025, 10:43:43 AMMarvelous pair, Rube. They both are fine examples. I like the looks of an 1877 best but the 1878 is a better gun. They are perhaps the most comfortable feeling pistols ever made, at least for my hand.
Yeah, they are very nice to hold on too. I hope the 78 shoots good.
" 83rd Field Artillery was part of the 8th Division, equipped with French 75's. 83rd FA (organized from the 25th Cavalry in 1917). August 3, 1918, the transfer of about 100 Officers and 5,000 enlisted men to the Russian Siberian Force is ordered. {many volunteered but one would have to look at the muster rolls to see who went from what units.}
November 2, 8th FA Brigade sails from Hoboken and New York, arriving on November 9, 1918 at Brest, France. November 15, 8th FA Brig moves to Ploermel, Germany; camp duties. January 4, 1919 8th FA leaves Brest, arrives , January 18, at Hoboken, and moves to Camp Mills. January 20, 1919, 8th FA Brigade leaves Camp Mills and arrives January 22 at Camp Knox. The entire Division is Demobilized and discharged between February 15 and September 15, 1919. The 8th FA Brigade remains active for the time being." 1
8th Division: The "Pathfinder Division" was organized at Camp Fremont, California in December of 1917. It never reached France as a Division. Nevertheless, those units which did go across sustained 6 KIA and 29 WIA.2
1. Order of Battle of the United States Land Forces ...AEF: Divisions Washington, 1931 PP 106-111.
2. World War One Collectors Handbook 1988 PP.14 & 19
Quote from: 38OVI on March 18, 2025, 02:44:58 PM" 83rd Field Artillery was part of the 8th Division, equipped with French 75's. 83rd FA (organized from the 25th Cavalry in 1917). August 3, 1918, the transfer of about 100 Officers and 5,000 enlisted men to the Russian Siberian Force is ordered. {many volunteered but one would have to look at the muster rolls to see who went from what units.}
November 2, 8th FA Brigade sails from Hoboken and New York, arriving on November 9, 1918 at Brest, France. November 15, 8th FA Brig moves to Ploermel, Germany; camp duties. January 4, 1919 8th FA leaves Brest, arrives , January 18, at Hoboken, and moves to Camp Mills. January 20, 1919, 8th FA Brigade leaves Camp Mills and arrives January 22 at Camp Knox. The entire Division is Demobilized and discharged between February 15 and September 15, 1919. The 8th FA Brigade remains active for the time being." 1
8th Division: The "Pathfinder Division" was organized at Camp Fremont, California in December of 1917. It never reached France as a Division. Nevertheless, those units which did go across sustained 6 KIA and 29 WIA.2
1. Order of Battle of the United States Land Forces ...AEF: Divisions Washington, 1931 PP 106-111.
2. World War One Collectors Handbook 1988 PP.14 & 19
Thank you for this. Always interested in the history.
Quote from: Rube Burrows on March 18, 2025, 03:15:17 PMThank you for this. Always interested in the history.
As am I, Will you letter those Colts ?
Quote from: Major 2 on March 19, 2025, 07:56:09 AMAs am I, Will you letter those Colts ?
I think I will. I have never got one lettered. I have only had one real Colt before these and didn't have it long enough to letter it. I think I will get these lettered.
It will be interesting to see what your letters show.
I'd have two Colt and one S&W letter from S&W Historian Roy Jinks
The Colts are a Colt Police Positive Special and Colt Commando.
Only the Jenks lettered Smith is dated as old as your two guns, a 2nd Model #3 Russian.
Quote from: Major 2 on March 19, 2025, 09:20:25 AMIt will be interesting to see what your letters show.
I'd have two Colt and one S&W letter from S&W Historian Roy Jinks
The Colts are a Colt Police Positive Special and Colt Commando.
Only the Jenks lettered Smith is dated as old as your two guns, a 2nd Model #3 Russian.
I think it will be neat to know a little more history on the guns.
IMHO it is 1/2 the fun of stewardship...
To research and have something of the item's provenance.
Quote from: Major 2 on March 19, 2025, 01:48:03 PMIMHO it is 1/2 the fun of stewardship...
To research and have something of the item's provenance.
Very true.
I began my quest many years ago, with Colt 1960.
My research found it was circa 1862 with in the serial number range
purchased by the 5th Iowa Cavalry.
Then using "The Compendium of the War of Rebelion" I discovered Muster dates & Service (I:E encampments and battles) of the 5th Iowa Cavalry.
I follow that with my Spencer Carbine serving in a New York Cavalry Regiment.
My journey has added a modest grouping of Veteran bring backs, SpanAm, WW 1 & II and some Veteran personal items.
Though eclectic the collection is under a heading of "Militaria"
from Arms to a uniform from WW II, and few holsters.
Quote from: Major 2 on March 20, 2025, 08:26:09 AMI began my quest many years ago, with Colt 1960.
My research found it was circa 1862 with in the serial number range
purchased by the 5th Iowa Cavalry.
Then using "The Compendium of the War of Rebelion" I discovered Muster dates & Service (I:E encampments and battles) of the 5th Iowa Cavalry.
I follow that with my Spencer Carbine serving in a New York Cavalry Regiment.
My journey has added a modest grouping of Veteran bring backs, SpanAm, WW 1 & II and some Veteran personal items.
Though eclectic the collection is under a heading of "Militaria"
from Arms to a uniform from WW II, and few holsters.
That is pretty amazing. The best I guess I ever done was when I was about 18 I bought a Swiss K31 and while working on it I found it had a paper in the buttstock that had the soldiers name, rank and even his address. After lots of research by a friend of mine who knew that area I was able to talk to the soldier's family. My goal was to give the rifle back to him but unfortunately he had passed already and the family had no way of accepting a rifle. It was neat to hear stories of him though. I just with the internet would have been around as prevalent as it is today so I could have documented it better.
I do have a revolver that my Great Grandmother used to kill her husband though and after many years of searching for a firing pin I found one and recently got to shoot the gun myself.
That is so very COOL, I've heard of notes found in the butt of Rifles.
I have letter obtained with an Erfurt (1917) Luger P08.
It authenticates where the Luger was found.
The letter states it was recovered (found) Aug. 23 in Falaise (France) in a destroyed stone building and by whom.
> circling back to holsters <
This holster has been with the gun since 1944.
Quote from: Major 2 on March 20, 2025, 09:46:19 AMThat is so very COOL, I've heard of notes found in the butt of Rifles.
I have letter obtained with an Erfurt (1917) Luger P08.
It authenticates where the Luger was found.
The letter states it was recovered (found) Aug. 23 in Falaise (France) in a destroyed stone building and by whom.
> circling back to holsters <
This holster has been with the gun since 1944.
That is pretty awesome to have.
You know, I think the only logical thing for me to do about this holster is to find myself a Colt or S&W Model 1917.
Quote from: Rube Burrows on March 18, 2025, 12:12:22 PMYeah, they are very nice to hold on too. I hope the 78 shoots good.
If you shoot it, please let us know how it does.
Quote from: Rube Burrows on March 19, 2025, 08:39:13 AMI think I will. I have never got one lettered. I have only had one real Colt before these and didn't have it long enough to letter it. I think I will get these lettered.
The letter is well worth it. That shows provenance for the piece. It's always nice to see where it went originally. It also increases the value of the piece if you go to sell it.
Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on March 20, 2025, 11:34:16 AMIf you shoot it, please let us know how it does.
The letter is well worth it. That shows provenance for the piece. It's always nice to see where it went originally. It also increases the value of the piece if you go to sell it.
I am definitely planning to shoot it and likely will make a video for youtube.
I will do the letter also.
Quote from: Rube Burrows on March 20, 2025, 11:11:53 AMThat is pretty awesome to have.
You know, I think the only logical thing for me to do about this holster is to find myself a Colt or S&W Model 1917.
That is a symptom of "gunaholicism"... yep you got it ;)
I have my S&W Model 1917, one day I'll add a Colt 1917.
I do have a Lettered Colt Commando from WW2 era.
And the Lettered Colt Police Positive w/ the Cop that carrying it in the 1930's .
I'm a
Gunaholic and a
gear-head love that Indian MC
Quote from: Major 2 on March 20, 2025, 01:40:04 PMThat is a symptom of "gunaholicism"... yep you got it ;)
I have my S&W Model 1917, one day I'll add a Colt 1917.
I do have a Lettered Colt Commando from WW2 era.
And the Lettered Colt Police Positive w/ the Cop that carrying it in the 1930's .
I'm a Gunaholic and a gear-head love that Indian MC
Yeah, I have come down with it many years ago and I don't think there is a cure.
Love the photos with the guns that you have. Makes them even more interesting.
Greetings, All!
RB: About twenty years ago, Dad and I stopped off at Ron Peterson's in Albuquerque, and I found a reblued Colt's 1902 Philippine Constabulary for a "can't say no" price. Even with a little 'salt&pepper' bore, it shot well with BP.
My reloads comprised Ideal #454190, 35gr GOEX 2Fg, and Lg Magnum Primers ( CCI #350? ). I've also found that the NEI #323A(?) Mould / .454-230Gr HB bullets at about 10BHN shoot very well. If You choose to handled for your Colt's 1878 ( & 1877! ), keep Us posted!
Be Well!
MTM
MTM a Colt Philippine Constabulary is a very cool find and a fascinating era of US colonial history...
Greetings!
Major2: I agree! Although I would've preferred a standard Colt's 1878, the reblued Bannerman Surplus pistol was priced to sell, and... I couldn't say no! Lots of history there, as well.
I have to agree with the wish of late Mike Venturino, that A. Uberti get off their hands, and introduce a Colt's 1878 DAA...!
MTM
Quote from: Rube Burrows on March 20, 2025, 11:46:33 AMI am definitely planning to shoot it and likely will make a video for youtube.
I will do the letter also.
:D
Being a (native) Floridian and a history junky, the SpanAm War and America's
Colonial expansion is a fascination.
Along with Philippine acquisition, Inserection that followed plays right into the era as well.
I'd have been all over your score.
:) MTM ;)
Almost but not quite. Don't want Uberti to field an 1878. I want Pietta to do it. Uberti would manage to screw it up with a ton of Lawyer/Import stuff. At the worst, from Pietta, we'd just see the two position Cylinder Base Pin.
USFA almost did it with their Omnipotent. But the Omni wasn't DA. Also my pair of Omni's is a whole other story. Cracker Jacks
Quote from: mtmarfield on March 20, 2025, 05:42:43 PMGreetings, All!
RB: About twenty years ago, Dad and I stopped off at Ron Peterson's in Albuquerque, and I found a reblued Colt's 1902 Philippine Constabulary for a "can't say no" price. Even with a little 'salt&pepper' bore, it shot well with BP.
My reloads comprised Ideal #454190, 35gr GOEX 2Fg, and Lg Magnum Primers ( CCI #350? ). I've also found that the NEI #323A(?) Mould / .454-230Gr HB bullets at about 10BHN shoot very well. If You choose to handled for your Colt's 1878 ( & 1877! ), keep Us posted!
Be Well!
MTM
Thanks for the info. I will definitely be reloading for it.