I know this has been asked before, but the latest thread I could find was a few years old, and it seems that the manufacturers are changing offerings all the time.
So I'm spiraling down the rabbit hole of SAA clone options, and hoping you guys can help me out. I'm looking for the most authentic reproduction of a mid-1870's Colt. I thought it was going to be as simple as making sure I got a bullseye ejector head, cylinder pin retained by a screw, shallow v-notch rear sight, and 4-click action. Then I found people discussing Uberti frames being larger than the originals, different grip sizes (army vs navy size???), different barrel stamping from various importers, etc.
Back in the 90's I know there were reproductions being made that were 100% parts interchangeable with original Colts. Is anyone still making them with that level of attention to authenticity? If not, what should I be looking for on the used market?
EMF Hartford model is what you want.
Plus one and like button to monsiuer kent
Quote from: Kent Shootwell on November 06, 2024, 08:01:35 PMEMF Hartford model is what you want.
Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for one. They were made by ASM, correct?
Quote from: CWC on November 07, 2024, 12:34:48 AMThanks. I'll keep an eye out for one. They were made by ASM, correct?
Pietta - EMF is a Filli Pietta Company.
I've had a Cavalry Model since about '90 or '91. Yes, they were interchangeable with Colt, but be prepared to fix some stuff. Mine now wears a Colt barrel, Colt 1st Generation hammer, Colt trigger, Colt bolt,......you get the idea. On the other hand, it looks and shoots great!
Quote from: Major 2 on November 07, 2024, 06:35:59 AMPietta - EMF is a Filli Pietta Company.
I believe the ones they're talking about are the ASM manufactured ones. Of course, ASM has been out of business for years.
:) YEPPER FER SURE ;)
PLUS ONE fer Kent.
Those early Hartford marked guns came out of the ASM factory and another maker I've forgotten. Those early Hartford guns were righteous close to an SAA.
After Boyd held his competition for a new "Great Western" he settled on F.ILL Pietta. The current Pietta made Great Western II is the closest Replica of the SAA. Some parts will interchange with a Colt, but in the overall scheme of things, the Pietta offering is actually better made than current Colt guns and (In my Opine) is a much better value for dollar.
There is another problem of course, those ASM manufactured guns had some real serious quality control problems. Real Serious.
Wow, I'm pretty bummed to hear the GW2 is the most authentic current production. It was actually what inspired me to start this post in the first place. It looks like they're offering mostly fantasy guns. The only "black powder frame" that I saw was only offered with an antique finish. And then the other offerings seem to all have something weird about them; engraved cattle brands, oversized grips, competition triggers, modified sights, etc. Did they at one time offer a GW2 in just a standard authentic Colt configuration?
If I want to try to hunt up an old ASM is there a known range of serial numbers to seek out or avoid? Or were they pretty much hit or miss for their entire production run?
pretty much hit or miss for their entire production run imported from Italy.
However. when American Western Arms - and Dave Anderson was assembling ASM parts,
You knew you had something good. How close you might ask ? Colt sued them out of existence.
So. if you can find a Mid to late 90's AWA gun, Bob's you Uncle. :)
My ASM Hartford Model is serial #2552, so pretty early. When they milled the groove for the front sight they went into the bore. (Which would explain why the front sight kept coming off!) Soft parts, etc., which is why a lot of it is Colt now.
:) CWC ;)
Your best bet is to browse the EMF web site for the different models of the GW II. Short answer is yes. Pietta still make basic GW II guns without all the fluff as well as guns with varying levels of bling.
Please understand, the main market for Replica SAA guns is SASS, CAS and NCOWS. Pietta caters to "our" crowd more than basic shooters (minuscule market) but there are still some basic flavors and well as some real flash. Best of luck with your pursuit.
Like Coffinmaker says, there are still GW-II's that are "standard" SAA configuration. Also, Cimarron's "Frontier" line is Pietta, essentially the same as GW-II's, including more BP-framed models.
Thr problem comes when you state you want authenticity to the mid 1870's....the frame will have to be an "old model" type frame, with the screw in the front of the frame to secure the cylinder pin. Pietta only makes a couple of models with this feature.
The Uberti is very close, the frame is not larger, the cylinder is....and the Old Model ones usually have the "4 Click" actions.
The ASM's turn up occasionally, and there is a pair of 5.5" 45Colt Old Models on Gunbroker now with a bid of 550.00...
item: 1071985196... bid is 555, but that's a bargain for a pair.......FYI not associated with this auction, just passing on information.
Quote from: Cheyenne Logan on November 14, 2024, 10:21:15 AMThe Uberti is very close, the frame is not larger, the cylinder is...
Thanks for the info. I guess I misunderstood about the larger frame versus larger cylinder. Do Piettas also have a larger cylinder, or is that unique to Uberti? Is it due to needing the larger size for higher pressure modern smokeless loads?
:) CWC ;)
I don't have my "Book of Secrets" with me as I am on Mouse Safary and 1000 miles from home. However:
The Uberti frame is slightly larger than a Colt in several dimensions, mainly to facilitate the Larger cylinder. I don't actually know why Uberti builds their replica SAs with larger cylinders. Perhaps someone closer to Cimarron such as Abilene can chime in on that.
Pietta cylinders are basically identical to Colt 1st and 2d Gen. Overall, Pietta are VERY close to Colt although they are better built than recent Colt offerings.
The real annoying misnomer is the term "Clone." None of the replica SAs are "Clones" of the originals. Close. but no Ceegar. I describe them as replicants or replicas. You may get closer to true authenticity with Percussion guns, by both Pietta and Uberti although Uberti Colt Pattern Open Top guns have a serious flaw. Some of Pietta's Percussion guns are also "not exactly." Best of Luck.
I forgot to add, the term "Clone" was dreamed up by some "all knowing" magazine scribes in our past and unfortunately, the term stuck. Some of us old school gunplumbers absolutely hate the term.
I agree on the use of the word "clone". For me it's like fingernails on a chalkboard but then so is "wheelgun". :P
Good video from Brian Pearce about the new Pietta's.
https://youtu.be/r1PzEc-Ieo0?si=5Ad4Wk-AUaF9LslF
I have three of them and they are excellent. However, I have a growing disdain for blackpowder frames and sights and don't know why anyone would go out of their way to get one.
I also never noticed a difference in the hands between the Colt's and various replicas due to the very slightly larger dimensions. Of course, I only have 21 SAA's from Colt, USFA, Standard, Uberti and Pietta.
Latest is this Sheriff's model.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/IMG_3067b.jpg)
The .45 convertible.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/002b_1.jpg)
And a "weird" cattlebrand .45.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/Pietta%20Cattle%20Brand%2001.jpg)
Quote from: Graveyard Jack on January 05, 2025, 11:41:33 AM...I have three of them and they are excellent. However, I have a growing disdain for blackpowder frames and sights and don't know why anyone would go out of their way to get one.
I also never noticed a difference in the hands between the Colt's and various replicas due to the very slightly larger dimensions. Of course, I only have 21 SAA's from Colt, USFA, Standard, Uberti and Pietta...
Your preference for pre-war frames is an understandable personal choice, but why anyone would want a BP frame was answered by the OP started who this thread - he wanted something authentic to mid-1870's. I have a few and prefer the aesthetics, but my charcoal blue Cavalry would be just wrong with wide square sights.
I agree on the size thing, never notice the difference between my Colts and repros.
Quote from: Abilene on January 13, 2025, 05:33:54 PM...but why anyone would want a BP frame was answered by the OP started who this thread - he wanted something authentic to mid-1870's.
I know. I read it. I just don't understand it.
Personally, I don't necessarily understand that desire for something "The Way It Was." From 2 feet, you can't tell the difference. The more modern "square" sights simply work better and are easier to acquire a sight picture. But, since it ain't my gun, do what you will I suppose. Plus, the manufacturers have ben responding to their major market "CAS" for many years. Some of those changes are kind of stupid, but must also please the Feds.
Quote from: Coffinmaker on January 15, 2025, 09:09:18 AMPersonally, I don't necessarily understand that desire for something "The Way It Was." From 2 feet, you can't tell the difference. The more modern "square" sights simply work better and are easier to acquire a sight picture. But, since it ain't my gun, do what you will I suppose. Plus, the manufacturers have ben responding to their major market "CAS" for many years. Some of those changes are kind of stupid, but must also please the Feds.
Same here, I've been fighting with that infernal thumbscrew on my new "Old West" Uberti all week. Gimme the plunger any day of the week. The sights are aggravating too. There's no telling how many blackpowder frames I have and curse them all. :D
I like the bullseye ejector but can work with either style of those.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/IMG_3751b.jpg)
Getting the BP frame base pin screw installed on the reproductions requires some finesse as the base pin has to be in the perfect position or the screw can loosen when firing. If you grind off the rear of the base pin to eliminate the "Italian safety" or replace the pin with a standard Colt-length pin (like the 3-clickers now use) then when you push it all the way in, it is perfectly aligned for the screw. Crank it down and it stays tight. I don't use the thumbscrew as it is ugly and can't be tightened as well. The only time I would use that is if I'm working on the gun and needing to take it apart real often.
I guess I need to start grinding on basepins but most of these I bought used and didn't come with the flush screw.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/IMG_3745b.jpg)
:) Graveyard Jack :D
I know you already know this, but I have to put it out there anyway. Both Pietta and Uberti make/provide that tasty little Base Pin Screw. Best bet to acquire same is probably Cimarron. Of course (you already know) ordering enough for all will make the shipping less painful. I'd probably also query VTI. EMF may also have them for Pietta but EMF will beat ya up on shipping.
If we are talking about Pietta, I am the Poster Child for the GW II. However: My experience with my most recent Pietta Base Pins is to just trash 'em. They really really really SUCK!! I replaced my most recent with Uberti non-safety single groove base pins (Via VTI). Perfect Fitz, puttin on the Ritz.
PS: Forgot, that be a fine pile of SAs you betcha!! Really nice guns (drool drool)
I think I'd rather keep the knurled thumbsrews. At least I can tighten them without tools. I will look at single groove basepins. I really wish they could just leave the original design alone without all the crap they have to add for importation. Okay, off to VTI....... ;)
I may backorder a .44Spl cylinder for my flat-top while I'm at it.
"I really wish they could just leave the original design alone without all the crap they have to add for importation. Okay, off to VTI..."
I agree, but it's required by our government for Importation, same reason Uberti makes the 1962 "Pocket" model conversion with a 6" barrel! There are hoops you have to jump through to import handguns.....thanks to GCA '68
Quote from: Cheyenne Logan on January 22, 2025, 06:03:51 PM"I really wish they could just leave the original design alone without all the crap they have to add for importation. Okay, off to VTI..."
I agree, but it's required by our government for Importation, same reason Uberti makes the 1962 "Pocket" model conversion with a 6" barrel! There are hoops you have to jump through to import handguns.....thanks to GCA '68
I know, I said that.
Which is why I used the quotation marks........ ;D
I put the flush fitting base pin screw in my Uberti (it came in the box from Cimarron) but I recently changed back to the bigger one. It has a screwdriver slot too and it stays in place when I tighten it with a screwdriver. I like seeing the bigger one, to see the flush one requires that I turn the revolver to look.
:) Hey All ;)
Just a little quick FYI about the tasty little BP frame base pin retaining screw. There are two "keys" to keeping that little bugger tight. Key number one: Don't allow the screw to bottom against the Base Pin. The tip of the screw needs to bottom out in it's well, NOT on the Base Pin. Number two: If you don't wish to dress the end of the screw, a tiny drop of BLUE LocTite is your friend.
Pietta now owns EMF/Great Western, and as a dyed in the wool Uberti owner, Pietta is your huckleberry. I refuse to buy another 3 click Uberti.
:) WELL NOW ;)
PLUS ONE for RRio you betcha :D
The factory Uberti pearl and ivory grips came back into stock. I ordered another one of each along with a bunch of single notch basepins.
Cimarron/Pietta Henry Nettleton. Mid 1870s SAA done right IMH0. Write up and picture in Reviews. If the proper retention screw is not in the box you call Cimarron with the serial # and they'll send you one for free.