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CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: Froogal on May 10, 2024, 08:24:53 AM

Title: Ballistol?
Post by: Froogal on May 10, 2024, 08:24:53 AM
Does Ballistol work with black powder? Mostly I am curious about using it with a bore snake for quick cleanups between stages if necessary.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 10, 2024, 08:51:49 AM

:)  Froogal   ;)

Depends (no, not the ones in the plastic package).  First a CAVEAT.  I don't like Balistol.  At all.  Well, it's ok to soften stiff boots.  However:

It will work for your purpose (mostly).  I do however, recommend and champion the use of PAM.  Acronym.  Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol and Murphy Oil Soap in equal parts.  I put it in a little spray bottle.  Works a treat.

With PAM, you won't need a bore snake.  Just a squirt down the bore and spritz a patch on the ends of yer rod.  Done.  Put a drink cozy on yer spray bottle.  Hydrogen Peroxide doesn't like direct sunlight.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Kent Shootwell on May 10, 2024, 09:38:42 AM
I've been using black powder for a very long time and water  has been the base of my cleaning with and without additives. A few years ago I heard a lot of chatter about Ballistol  and gave it a try. I had never had a problem with rust on any gun up till then. After using it the bore of my rifle showed rust after it had cleaned with Ballistol. I wouldn't recommend using it to anyone!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7806/40558530853_3f4d908814_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24N25bH)IMG_0411 (https://flic.kr/p/24N25bH) by Oliver Sudden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155475279@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Sedalia Dave on May 10, 2024, 10:16:33 AM
Been using it for years and it is BP compatible.

For some applications there are much better options.

Straight Ballistol doesn't work well removing hard BP fouling. You need to mix it with water. AKA Moose Milk (1 or 2 parts Ballistol to 9 or 8 parts water)

For cleaning hard BP deposits I find PAM works better than Ballistol and Dawn Power Wash works better still.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Froogal on May 10, 2024, 12:50:05 PM
Just to clarify, I have been using ballistol to clean my guns after shooting smokeless powder, and it works great. Just squirt a generous amount down the bore, wait a few seconds, make 2 passes with a bore snake, and the bore is nice and shiny. I've done the same after shooting black powder, but I flush out the bore with hot water before using the snake. Again, the bore always comes out nice and shiny, but I've never tried the ballistol just by itself without flushing with water. Hot water is not particularly available at the shooting range.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Major 2 on May 10, 2024, 01:27:03 PM
I used it, mostly the aerosol cans on smokeless cleanup.
The liquid, full strength on wood and leather as a finish works great. 
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Abilene on May 10, 2024, 02:04:57 PM
The guy from Ballistol told me some years ago that to clean smokeless with it you need to let it soak for a bit - it doesn't work as fast as some other solvents.  I do use it full strength for cleaning/lubing smokeless, and I use either moosemilk or hot water for cleaning the BP guns, and straight Ballistol for lubing. Actually, I've gotten to where after a match with BP I just spray Ballistol into and on the outside of the guns and put them away, and clean them in a few days or a few weeks, whenever I get to it.  Since a lot of my guns are used with both smokeless and BP, cleaning them with Ballistol leaves them ready to shoot either one.

Some years ago John Boy (R.I.P.) did some non-scientific tests where he coated some random pieces of metal with various products to see which worked the best against rust.  I don't recall much detail, but the Ballistol treated metal did rust some.  I have not had any rust problems myself.

Major, I use it on wood and leather as well.  It will darken light colored leather.  I've used it for the oil finish on the last several grips I've refinished, and the grain really pops when it is still wet.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Major 2 on May 10, 2024, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Abilene on May 10, 2024, 02:04:57 PM


Major, I use it on wood and leather as well.  It will darken light colored leather.  I've used it for the oil finish on the last several grips I've refinished, and the grain really pops when it is still wet.

Yes Sir
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Mako on May 10, 2024, 04:12:33 PM
I think Abilene gave one of the best uses for it, that is to hold your dirty weapons until you get a chance to clean them.  there are several characteristics to Ballistol:

Ket Shootwell, I have a question for you, did you just clean with Ballistol or try to use it as a corrosion inhibitor?  Also if you don't FULLY clean the bore (which Ballistol without water won't) you will get some superficial surface rust like you show on your patches.  Water and Ballistol or water and soap, then a thin film of a decent petroleum based oil and it won't rust.  BP is hygroscopic, it doesn't cause rust but attracts the moisture that will.  And fouling is porous and allows air and moisture in which is how we get corrosion. 

~Mako
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Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Abilene on May 10, 2024, 05:18:25 PM
I forgot to mention, though I have done so before, but I HATE the smell of Ballistol.  I'd have to describe it as sort of a licorice.  It literally takes my breath away, so if I'm using it indoors I MUST have a fan blowing.  And it also leaves your skin soft.  :)
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Froogal on May 11, 2024, 06:14:23 AM
Quote from: Abilene on May 10, 2024, 05:18:25 PM
I forgot to mention, though I have done so before, but I HATE the smell of Ballistol.  I'd have to describe it as sort of a licorice.  It literally takes my breath away, so if I'm using it indoors I MUST have a fan blowing.  And it also leaves your skin soft.  :)

YES!! I agree 100% with having a fan blowing.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Major 2 on May 11, 2024, 07:12:30 AM
 The odor is some objectionable, more so the affect my sinuous. It causes me to cough and sneeze.
Developed in 1904, it had whale oil as an ingredient, I don't think it does anymore.

In the ensuing 120 years, many more modern products have been developed, but Ballistol is still around.




     

Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Froogal on May 11, 2024, 07:47:34 AM
I have heard that Hoppe's does not play well with black powder. Any opinions on that?
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Major 2 on May 11, 2024, 08:39:46 AM
It's not recommended for BP; it is for copper fowling.
Do not use it for nickeled guns, it will eat the copper base of the plating, and the nickel will peel off.

I do however, like the distinctive smell ::)
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 11, 2024, 09:53:32 AM

:) Yea, well Ballistol no longer contains Wale Oil.  Its makeup is primarily Mineral Oil, some acidic stuff, alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide.  No water.  The stuff STINKS to high heaven.

For clean-up of Black Powder and Subs, I am a champion of PAM.  Equal parts of Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol and Murphy Oil Soap.  Works a treat.  Cleans quite well.  However, after cleaning I do apply Mobil 1 motor oil to lubricate and prevent rust.  ;)

For clean-up of Smokeless Powder, CLP.  I have found nothing better than CLP.  I happen to like "Break Free."  As done with BP and Subs, after cleaning I apply Mobil 1 Motor oil to lubricate and prevent rust.  ;)

RUST   NEVER   SLEEPS  :o
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Major 2 on May 11, 2024, 12:35:34 PM
Quote from: Coffinmaker on May 11, 2024, 09:53:32 AM


RUST   NEVER   SLEEPS  :o

Very true, but the cast and crew will do jail time  :-X
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 11, 2024, 01:31:28 PM

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Griff on May 11, 2024, 03:55:41 PM
Water.  And what is the cleaning of guns between stages thing?  I clean guns between matches. 
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Froogal on May 12, 2024, 07:44:54 AM
Quote from: Griff on May 11, 2024, 03:55:41 PM
Water.  And what is the cleaning of guns between stages thing?  I clean guns between matches.

Based on my experience with black powder in my .45 Colt, the bore can become fouled after just one stage.

I am now ready to do the 44-40 thing, but haven't yet experimented with various combinations that MIGHT reduce that fouling.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 12, 2024, 08:58:13 AM

:D Froogal  ;)

45 Colt "what"  :P  Pistol??  Rifle??  1911??  10 Pounder field Piece??

So, with Black Powder you're gonna get fouling to some extent regardless.  Black Powder fouling is cumulative.  Builds up a little every shot.  Doesn't matter what cartridge you use.  It does matter the "quality" of yer powder.  The other prime consideration is to keep the fouling soft.  Hence, we like lotza lube.

Cartridges:  45 Colt and other straight wall cartridges will foul the chamber and in many cases the action from "Blow-By" of gun gasses.  Icky Foo, unless precautions are taken.  Blow-By can be eliminated by annealing cases.  You can also eliminate blow-by in 45 Colt by fire forming 44-40 cases to 45s.  Unfortunately, there is no other case choice for the other straight wall cases.  Anneal them.

Annealed cases will not affect the fouling lift in the bore.  Only keeps the chamber and the action components clean, free running and sanitary.

Last Choice.  Switch.  Switch to APP.  APP requires no lube and the bore fouling is not cumulative.  Each shot cleans out the previous.  APP can and will foul the chamber and action though, if enough Blow-By is present.  Annealing and or 44-40 fire form'd will probably be required.
Title: Re: Ballistol?
Post by: Griff on May 12, 2024, 09:02:52 AM
Quote from: Froogal on May 12, 2024, 07:44:54 AMBased on my experience with black powder in my .45 Colt, the bore can become fouled after just one stage.
The bore being fouled is immaterial as long as your bullet carries enough lube to keep it soft; the next shot will wipe it
out  Changing to a .44-40 will not affect bore fouling.  The .44-40does a much better job of keeping fouling from the action, however annealing 45 Colt cases does a stellar job also.  I just thinned my carrier in my '73s and Henry so buildup of fouling in the carrier mortise doesn't hinder smooth operation for even a 3-day, 12 stage match.  Rugers seem to need a bit more cylinder/barrel gap than do Colts or most clones due in part, to cylinder bushing design.  But just with bullet lube, the lube for the gun needs to be of type compatible with BP.