Greetings, all -- I recently acquired a Pietta-built Colt Navy. I've been out of the black powder scene for too long, and was hoping to simplify my re-initiation by using some big lube bullets rather than wads/balls/greasy fingers. I see that there is an EPP-36 mold available for this very purpose, but the downside is I do not (yet) cast my own bullets. Do any of the 'commercial' casters out there offer the EPP-36? I checked with whyte leather works and didn't see it there.
thanks,
MD
You might contact Mark (Springfield Slim) at Whyte L W, I think he has some stuff that is not on the website.
Thanks Abilene! Now this leads to a followup question -- is there a 'go-to' recipe for pan lubing these big-lube bullets? I've seen beeswax combined with crisco, tallow, or oil recommended -- I'm wondering whether that's still considered best practice.
thanks,
MD
:) Mad Dog ;)
Snicker snicker chortle. He he he. Were you consider 3F APP, you don't need to "Pan Lube" nor "Grease" nor none of that messy stuff. I have been shooting the EPP UG - 36 Bullet, "As Cast" by Mark Whyte for several years. Most superb they are too. The rebate at the base aids in squaring up the bullet before ramming. Mark does not run 'em thru a sizer nor lubber (a real pain to do), just "as cast." Give him a call.
Hey Coffinmaker - at Abilene's suggestion I did exactly that (contact Mark Whyte) and have a pile of those EPP-36 "as cast" on order.
As regards to APP - does it smell like black powder when you shoot it? Scent and memory are strangely coupled, and the smell of burnt black powder invokes happy memories of my childhood, so I think I'll be sticking with the black :).
-MD
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on who you ask) the BP substitutes do not have the sulfer smell, nor do they have near as much flame, and a little less boom. They do smoke very well and the average person can't tell the difference.
I have used the EPP-36 a lot and like them. I have noticed they seem to seal the chamber better than a round ball. However, when they are lubed they become slippery to handle and so I just put a dab of lube on top of the powder and under the bullet which I run dry.
:) Mad Dog ;)
PLUS ONE for Abilene. Nope. APP don't smell like BP. Also. PLUS ONE for Navy Six. I have found the EPP UG - 36, loaded "as cast" seals the chamber better than round ball. Also, the bullet is heavier than a round ball and gives a much more satisfying KLANG on steel. Much better than "thunk." I personally consider them far superior to round ball.
People still be Hazardous to Yer Health
APP smells like ammonia after firing. Hopefully the wind is not in your face.
BP smells like sulphur after firing. Hopefully the wind is not in "your" face.
All of the subs contain some form some form of organic acid, such as ascorbic acid. They are more corrosive than BP and require more attention to cleaning. And they don't SMELL right!
I'll stick with the original, all organic (charcoal, sulfur and bat s**t), green propellant! ;D
+1 for BB
I've been around 'sub' shooters and have shot some myself and clearly tell ya it stinks. Not the so-called sulfur smell BP is associated with, but an acidic odor that you shy away from. I really don't mind the odor BP produces, wouldn't want to stand in it on a continued basis, but it has its own 'not that bad' quality to it. The more corrosive factor over BP doesn't help its 'want to use' either. Using BP is just more 'the right thing to use' for the 19th Century guns we like to shoot. Ah Coffin', bet if BP was a $1 a pound and APP was $1000 a pound, you'd still sing about APP's so-called attributes and buy it vs BP!!!! ;D Just sayin'! ;D
;D ;D ::)
use American Pioneer Powder and you are good for any kind of bullet lube or no lube is needed and clean up is scary fast.
A retired gun plumber who shall remain nameless put me on this product and it works like a charm.
For a bonus volume to volume APP seems to have a little more oomph that regular Gunpowder.
At least with equal volumes the APP seem to print a little higher on the target than Gunpowder.
Hold Center
Hit that thang
Bunk
I use the El Paso Pete Ultra Gamer 45 Caliber 150 grain in my Pietta Remington 1858 new model army sheriff's
I also load them in 45 CBS with as much FFF as I can jam in there and roll crimp. I use a mix of Bees Wax, Paraffin Wax, Lard and Vaseline it's just a mix of black powder safe ingredients that I add depending on what consistency I need. I have never had a problem with this,
(https://i.imgur.com/Z6ASUDx.jpg?2)
I do not want to start a urinating contest with Black Powder Burns, but I grew up on corrosive primers.
The extra hot Italian percussion caps DGW used to sell and FA70 rifle primers. It is muscle memory to shoot and clean immediately that day.
It was a great day when Winchester came out with non corrosive, non mercuric "staynless" primers and caps.
I guess i could get away with using the "P" stuff but a retired gun plumber might brain me with a bottle of APP.
The percussion rifles still get Gunpowder but hand guns both C&B and cartridge are tending to APP.
Cleanup is super fast and that is a bonus. I will trade the cleanup for the smell.
Just sayn'
Bunk
Quote from: Bunk on July 27, 2022, 03:57:11 PM....... I will trade the cleanup for the smell.
Just sayn'
Bunk
One day I opened up a plastic jar that had fired (Swiss 2F) 44WCF cases soaking in Moose Milk (10% Ballistol/90% Water) . My then 8 year old granddaughter lifted her head and loudly proclaimed "GRANDMOMMY, ONE OF THE DOGS JUST POOPED IN THE HOUSE". I didn't know you could pull a muscle from laughing. ;D
Bunk, eliminating the corrosive primers did away with the biggest problem. The rest is trivial.
Just do what makes you happy! ;D
Quote from: Blackpowder Burn on July 27, 2022, 07:34:33 PM
Bunk, eliminating the corrosive primers did away with the biggest problem. The rest is trivial.
Just do what makes you happy! ;D
I started out back in the early 70's using those Eye-Talian caps. The ones I used came in a red plastic container, can't recall the brand name, but think they were around $1-2.00 per 100, think I was paying around $3 a pound for a Scottish made powder called Metor. Now using Remington #10's and Goex powder, I don't really have much of a problem cleaning the barrel or cylinders out. What residue is there cleans/wipes out good whether I use hot water and soap, 'moose milk' (Balistol/water), or any solvent geared towards black powder. IMO the sales promo of easy or reduced cleaning using AAP is just that- a 'sales promo' geared to catch shooters to buy and use.
Sort of like the myriads of fish lures ya see at fishing gear stores and in catalogs. Geared to catch fishermen's dollars ($$) not so much fish. There are 4-5 basic old time lures that will hook any fish swimming so I don't get all excited when all those new just marketed lures hit the shelves every year. APP burns, but IMO will never equal good ole black no matter what gun plumbers anywhere proclaim. ;D ;D