Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L

52 minutes of bliss..

  https://youtu.be/JdwPvD8JZ84  (https://youtu.be/JdwPvD8JZ84)

CC Griff

Excellent, well made video.  I now consider myself a Russian "expert". :)

I agree with everything, though I hope someday he makes her choose between the #3 and a Nagant revolver.  That could get interesting.  (I'd take the #3 all day long)

I agree, but both is also cool  ;D

Hi

I hope to try a New Model #3 at Muster.  I don't like the 1873 Colt grip that well.  I shoot a lot of 1911, and Model 19 S&W.  Is the bump on the New Model as big a help as she says?  In some ways, I'd prefer the Schofield in 44/40. I like the way that the Latch works attached to the frame instead of the Cylinder. 

Later

Howdy

QuoteIs the bump on the New Model as big a help as she says?

Howdy

First of all, I would never let that woman touch any of my antique Top Breaks. I cringed every time she slammed it shut. When she buys her own Uberti reproduction she can slam it shut as much as she wants, when she breaks something she can get replacement parts. But not with my antiques. When I close a Top Break I pinch the cylinder with my thumb and forefinger in two flutes on either side of the top strap. This ensures the chambers will be lined up properly to the bore. Then I close it firmly, but relatively slowly. I never close a Top Break without first aligning the chambers, and I NEVER slam it shut.

To answer your question, I think you are a bit confused. It is the Russian model that has the big bump (knuckle) on the grip.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/Russian02.jpg)




Not the New Model Number Three.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/My%20New%20Model%20Number%20Three/Blued/New%20Model%20Number%20Three%20Blue%2031022%2002%20jpg_zps8sck3v7l.jpg)




Personally, I think those guys are all wet about how great the big knuckle is on the Russian model. Watch closely when she fires it. In order for her thumb to reach the hammer she has to regrip every time she cocks the hammer, putting the palm of her hand against the knuckle, then regrip again to get her hand back in position. If she fires the revolver with her palm in contact with the knuckle, recoil is going to push that sharp point right into her palm and it is going to hurt. Trust me on this, I speak from experience.

The Russians specified the big knuckle on the Russian model in order to control recoil, so the gun did not slip in the hand. The knuckle performs that job very well. But I have much bigger hands than her, and I have to regrip for every shot to reach the hammer, placing my palm against the knuckle in order to reach the hammer, and then regrip again to get my hand below the knuckle. This is because of the shape of the hammer. The hammer spur on all the S&W Top Breaks points up. If it extended just a little bit further back, as well as pointed up, the problem would be solved, and there would be no problem reaching the hammer, and no regripping necessary.

This video does not mention the Schofield model, which was developed after the Russian Model and before the New Model Number Three. Notice there is no knuckle at all on the grip, the grip is completely rounded. This allows the grip to rotate slightly in the hand under recoil, bringing the hammer closer to the thumb. Then you regrip as you bring the gun down from recoil. Perfectly natural, which by the way is exactly the same way I shoot a Colt.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/schofield02_zps140a93d1.jpg)



Regarding the hammer spur, I have heard all sorts of explanations for it. Some say it is to protect the hand and parry sabre blows. Some say it is so the gun can be hung on a belt without a holster. Some say it is an aid in aiming. If any of these things were true, why would so many American shooters have sawed off the trigger spur? Ergonomics? When I break open a Top Break none of my fingers are anywhere near the trigger. I grab the frame with my right hand, manipulate the catch, and break the gun open with two hands. Yes, one is supposed to be able to break open a Schofield with one hand while riding, and reload. Sorry I am not a horseman and have no experience with that. I do all my shooting standing on the ground. I find the trigger spur on the Russian model to be completely useless, I have no trouble controlling the gun with my hand on the grip in the conventional way. Personally I have always felt the spur on the trigger guard on the Russian model was just a European affectation.

If you want to talk ergonomics, and ease to shoot, the New Model Number Three has it all over the Russian Model. Just enough knuckle to make the way to hold the gun obvious, not enough to prevent allowing the gun to rotate in the hand under recoil. And yes, it is much, much simpler to remove the cylinder for cleaning with the New Model Number Three than it is with the Russian Model. Mine is a 2nd Model, without the thumb screw in the top strap, so it is a pain to remove the cylinder for cleaning.

To tell you the truth, My New Model Number Threes come to a match much more often than my Russian model. Much easier to shoot and clean.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/My%20New%20Model%20Number%20Three/Blued/New%20Model%20Number%20Three%20Blue%2031022%2004_zpswkeypr1s.jpg)




Historically, I only have one tiny quibble with the video, he makes the mistake of saying that S&W bought the Rollin White patent for bored through cylinders. S&W never bought the patent, White refused to sell it. White instead licensed S&W to use the patent for a royalty of $.25 for every gun they made. Which was a lot of money back then. The video is correct other than that, in all its telling of the history of S&W. And clever old Daniel Wesson, partially because of the difficulties he suffered as a young man when the creditors took his tools after his brother's death, always made sure to get the upper hand in all legal dealings. Which is why he stuck White with the responsibility for policing the patent.

Not going to comment on taking a revolver into war, not an issue with me. Although if forced, and not able to take a 1911, I would probably opt for a S&W Model 10.

Driftwood Johnson,

Thanks so much for the great photos (for comparison of the different Model types) and the added info on shooting these different Model types.
I shoot my S&W's, and the most comfortable grip design, for me is the early style (No Knuckle hump grip) as is the same style as is on the Schofield. The New Model No. 3 grip is also so much more comfortable in the hand than the large knuckle grip.
As for the "spur" on the trigger guard ... it is a waist of time, but it is what the Russians requested, and what the Russians got.
My best,
Blair

Hi Driftwood.

Not that confused, but the bump on the Russian is bigger than on the New Model.  I can keep my grip on a 1911 through recoil, but on the 1873 Colt's, my hand always ends up somewhere new.

Later

While the 'knuckle' as you say is not so pronounced on a #3 New Model there is indeed a web swell at the upper portion of the grip frame. Mike this is the Uberti Laramie that I will bring to Muster next month.  The last pic is of an original S&W .44 DA Frontier. It's coming along too.