After seeing & handling this fine looking rifle today I find it ironic that just after "short strokes" were mandated "inappropriate" ;D that this rifle appears to be available. I predict that if it works there will be a veritable horde of shooters buying these at $400 a pop. Therefore I propose that NCOWS support a trade embargo against Brazil! ;D Just kiddin'! ;D ;) If these actually work then I predict you'll see a change in CAS, far out of proprtion than their actual usage in the West. I just can't seem to get an image of John Wayne carrying a Lightning. ;D
I don't see a problem.
If they are approved by NCOWS, then yes, I would expect to see those folks that are concerned about shaving another 1/100 of a second off their stage times to try and get one.
The easy way to negate the advantage is to move the rifle targets out farther.
And if the Duke had ever tried to "speed-pump" a lightning, he would probably have torn the foregrip off the thing.
Grizzle Bear
Quote from: Grizzle Bear on November 27, 2005, 06:42:27 PM
I don't see a problem.
If they are approved by NCOWS, then yes, I would expect to see those folks that are concerned about shaving another 1/100 of a second off their stage times to try and get one.
The easy way to negate the advantage is to move the rifle targets out farther.
And if the Duke had ever tried to "speed-pump" a lightning, he would probably have torn the foregrip off the thing.
Grizzle Bear
Isn't the Taurus Thunderbolt a clone of the Colt Lighting and as such approved per the "approved list" which states:
Colt Lighting Models by Tri-Star and othersWhat is the concern about this rifle? Is it that no one has yet seen/touched on to see if it does or does not deviate from the Colt?
QuoteWhat is the concern about this rifle? Is it that no one has yet seen/touched on to see if it does or does not deviate from the Colt?
Well, in a word....yep.
The Congress was asked to consider approving this rifle in KC, but chose to delay that until Feb. in order that the riflle could be examined before voting on them. No one at the Congress, As I recall, had ever seen or handled one. The concern, I believe, would largely be whether, in actuality, they "markedly resemble" the Colt original and whether their internals are so radical as to not be allowed. Based on the literature I've seen so far, I would imagine they will be approved, but we won't know for sure until the Congress takes up the issue in Feb.
If the rifle is approved, anyone would be free to use one if they so chose, but it would then also be subject to the prohibition on any kind of additional short-stroking modifications.
On a personal note, I don't expect to be giving up my 66 or 73 any time soon, but I have to admit, the Lightnings do have a bit of appeal in their own way and have piqued my interest.
I will eventually get one. I saw some Lightnings at work this summer and the term I would use if the shooter knows what they are doing is "bloody fast." My plans to obtain one is baiscally the same justification I will use to pick up the Schofields, and the Spencer I just bought. No Cowboy Collection would be complete without them....
I'm sure you know already but US Firearms also makes a very nice Lighting clone:
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/lightningrifle.asp
Quote from: Irish Dave on November 27, 2005, 08:38:25 PM
QuoteWhat is the concern about this rifle? Is it that no one has yet seen/touched on to see if it does or does not deviate from the Colt?
Well, in a word....yep.
Don't you think this might be confusing to the new NCOWS members ?
The approved list states that Colt Lighning clones are approved.
Taurus says this is a clone.
Therefore to many...this would be approved already.
Perhaps the approved list should say that
nothing is approved until specifically stated so.
Sod Buster,
Not confusing. Prudent. Just because someone says something is a clone doesn't necessarily make it so. Taurus is a reputable mfgr. and I doubt that there will be any problem, but it is best to check it out, rather than just accept the advertising and then have to go back and put it on the disapproved list.
BTW, the difference in cost for the USFA copy is only $1005.00. :o :o
Quote from: Nate Kiowa Jones #6765,Nov 23 2005, 11:59 PM
I just finished the action work on one of these Thunderbolts. This gun is not based on the Win 1890/Taurus 62 action. It is very much like the original colt lighting. It does have an interesting bolt to locking lug connection. It has a wire clip that retains it. The original had a pin that came out through a hole in the frame. The taurus has the pin solidly fixed in the lug. Should improve strength by stabilizing headspace issues. I can tell that this gun was assembled several time and fired several time during the assemble. Several areas showed hand work. It was pretty good right out of the box through. I think these are going to be winners.
I think the idea that these were going to be based on the Win 1890/Taurus 62 action is because Taurus has plans the make a lever action based on the Win 1890/Taurus 62 pump.
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Nate would know
QuoteNot confusing. Prudent. Just because someone says something is a clone doesn't necessarily make it so. Taurus is a reputable mfgr. and I doubt that there will be any problem, but it is best to check it out, rather than just accept the advertising and then have to go back and put it on the disapproved list.
And therein lays the problem! I've read somewhere that Taurus redesigned the innnards of this pump gun to make it more dependable than the original design. (and knowing Taurus, I'l bet they succeeded in spades) The question is, "is this a "Colt Clone" or is this something entirely different and not within the perameters of what NCOWS will allow."
Until a ruling is handed down, I'd hate to shell out the bucks fer one of these, only to find out that I'd wasted my money on a gun I can't use in my favorite sport! Fortunately fer me there are pards out there with the bucks to spare so that one can be submitted for evaluation! ;D ;D ;D ;D
While NCOWS does have an "approved" list, NCOWS does not "approve " weapons in the same way that SASS does. NCOWS "disapproves" weapons, such as the Model P Jr. and Ruger Bisley Vaquero. The internal of the design, if not visible or detectable from the exterior, shouldn't matter. Slide action originals and reproductions have been available for some time, so if gamers were going to switch to slide actions in order to gain some edge, they would have done it by now. I only know of one, and he is very fast, at close range, on big targets. Like Griz said, if want to really mess up a gamer, move the distance back and reduce the size of the target.
I was also pesonally against banning the short strokes. I don't think they'll make any differance and I'd defy anybody to identify someone using one at a match, without any fore-knowledge of such a modification. Therefore, I think the people that have them will continue to use them, just as people who use the Model P Jr. for pocket pistol, go on unchallenged, even at "regional" events.
This is all a big to-do about nothing, but hey, the wire was getting stale anyway, so it gives us something to talk about.
I'm jealous. my table pard (fellow NCOWS-Fort Des Moines Ramger) bought one of them
at the gun show in 45lc. I own a AWA Lighting got about $1175.00 into it. The gun & shipping back to AWA to get it fix. He paid just little over $400.00 for it with tax. Good wood and metal. Action is slick, I gave him this web site to post his right up about the gun. I have the 357 case color on order,can't wait.
TUCO
NCOWS-FDMR #1608
NRA LIFE