The Marshal tells me he should soon have my Taylors Spencer carbine to ship to me!
I have asked him to look into also getting me brass, bullet mould and dies .... Can the folks here make any recommendations along those lines? (I know I could try to wade back through all the threads on this forum, but would likely just get totally confused/lost.)
I take that Starline brass may be the only game in town (short of adapting .50-70 brass) or am I wrong on this assumption? How about moulds (for use primarily with a smokeless load ... or probably Triple7 if I use a BP substitute.) Think I saw one thread that indicated that only Lyman makes dies - is that still the case?
Howdy RJ,
Lyman makes the 56-50 dies specifically for the Taylor. 4-D makes them for originals.
As for bullets, there are many molds. I like the Buffalo Arms custom .512/350 mold. It does not seat as deep as some others and allows for more powder (triple 7, 40 grn volumne and a Winchester Magnum Rifle with a tigh crimp for consistant ignition. Wowee!
Modified Lee die.
I am going to modiify a couple of these this weekend...
I will offer up what I have for other folks afterwards.
Lee has a 15 day lead time on their .512" bullet sizing dies from that I learned. $25
Howdy Pard,
Are you modifying lee 500s to 350ish ? Ifin you are, I would happily recompense you, to your satisfaction for a set. MY BAC .512/350 shoots great, but I think your design would have superior long range, and looks more correct. How much BP and triple 7 do you get in yours?
Yup, the .515" 500gr to about 350gr.
Chattahoochee Blackpowder Arms had Armi Sport dies at the N-SSA spring national for the 56-50. Armi Sport dies were either $110 or $120 verses the $50 for the Lyman dies. I e-mailed Lyman about the problems I have been having with their dies (the same problems as others have posted neck expansion and crimping). They told me to return these for evaluation. I'll keep the board posted on this.
Bruce
Any idea who makes the dies for Armi Sport?
The dies for the 56-50 are available from 2 vendors that I know of.
RCBS and Lyman
The RCBS will cost you over $100
The Lyman will only set you back $45
You can probably guess which ones most folks are using on this board.
Hi Dakota,
What is the number of the lee mould that you modify and how much do you turn off the back.
Regards
Colt Fanning
Greetings!
When I bought my Spencer, I had L. Romano send a bullet mould with it; he made a little 300gr. RNFP that cycles well, and shoots o.k. I'd also picked up a couple of second-hand Rapine moulds from either eBay, or from Ron Petersons in NM, I don't recall; they are Rapine #.515320, and .515365, and dummy rounds cycle fine with both... I STILL need to try them out over GOEX. The 515365 looks a lot like the old Ideal #515139 .50 Win Express Bullet.
Being the kind of fellow that can NEVER have too many bullet moulds, I'd be delighted to pay a reasonable fee to a certain Spencer Shooter who transforms Lee .50-500gr. moulds into 350gr. moulds. I like the idea of leaving as much room for GOEX as possible, as I, too, long for a shot at our local fauna.
Oh, have you fellows with "Hunting Cartridge OAL" restrictions thought about seating your bullets out a tad & single loading your cartridges? If your chamber & throat dimensions would allow it, that might put you in the hunting field... Just a thought.
Be Well, All!
MTMarfield
12-7-05
Anyone tried NEI mould #379C? Should cast out to .525-395.
The only problem that I have with moulds that are that much oversize in my Taylor's Spencer, is that when you size them down to .512, you lose too much lube groove. That's not what you need to do. NEI would very likely make the same bullet design in a smaller size, say .515 if you requested it. In an original Spencer, you would not have to do that.
Thanks. I have a Taylors and an original. I like NEI products so I will probably give them a call on Monday.
Check out NEI's 378c Lakota Spencer, it looks like a real good design with a huge grease groove and most of the bullet moved out of the case. The 379c also looks like it has a better grease groove than my Rapine. I've been trying to convince myself to order this for a couple years but I also want their 550 grain GC for my 50-140 Sharps Borchardt. And a 500 grain for my 45-70......
Just a suggestion--- NEI also will cut two different bullet cavities in the same mould blocks ( at least two cavity moulds) and perhaps more if a larger mould. They charge a nominal fee for this, if I remember correctly, around $15 extra, per cavity. I have had this done on several moulds from them, and it certainly makes the designs you would like to try more affordable. I am sure that the bullets do not have to be the same caliber either.
Who makes a mould suitable for 56-50 Taylors that is close to the original 56-50 bullet design?
Looking at the affordable Lyman 515139, and the nose looks like it would feed, but the lube grooves seem pretty skimpy, dang it.
Quote from: Oregon Bill on December 12, 2005, 11:18:26 AM
Looking at the affordable Lyman 515139, and the nose looks like it would feed, but the lube grooves seem pretty skimpy, dang it.
That's the one I have on order through the Marshal, Bill. Mind you, I expect most of my loads will be Triple 7, which works better with smokeless lubes, or else actual smokeless ...
I've used pre-cast 515139 bullets from Buffalo Arms in my .56-50 with black and they work just fine. While the lube grooves aren't huge, they easily carry enough lube to cope with the 30-35 grains of black you can squeeze in under 'em, at least in the 20 inch barreled Taylor carbine version. They shoot to point of aim, too.
Chili, that's good to hear. You using SPG or what? No hard fouling near the muzzle after a magazine or two of shots?
I have fired some of those rounds from the lyman mould you listed.
It holds just as much lube as my modified Lee mould bullets.
In using either bullet, there is no hard fouling to speak of after 3 mag tubes of shooting.
(I did this with GOEX FFFg and Pyrodex P...)
You should be able to get 40gr with a drop tube in under the Lyman bullet.
I think I was able to put a full 48gr of Pyrodex P under the bullet right before a cold spell hit. I didn't chrono it, but, it was real accurate.
(7 round group was about 4" at 50 yards, which is good for me)
Wagon Wheel,
You asked who makes the loading dies for Armi Sport, I got this from the NSSA site:
C-H Tool & Die/4D Custom Die Co.
Mt. Vrenon, Ohio
Sliprock
Quote from: mtmarfield on December 07, 2005, 10:39:31 PM
Greetings!
When I bought my Spencer, I had L. Romano send a bullet mould with it; he made a little 300gr. RNFP that cycles well, and shoots o.k.
MTMarfield,
By any chance can you find the load data for that 300 gr bullet? I have a hankering to try out the Barnes Original .510 JFP bullet. I sent a request for a 5 piece sample so maybe I will have them waiting for me when I get back from vacation in Texas on the 7th.
Regards,
Thomas (WW)
Greetings, Wagon Wheel!
The bullet dropped from the mould shown on Romano's site is quite different from mine: it has a driving band over the lube groove; mine tapers to its flat-point almost immediately over the lube groove. I'm not sure if he's making his moulds, or not... Give him a call!
From my "potluck soft alloy", this slug is: 320gr., d=.513", L=.709"; my first load with this slug was 40gr. GOEX fffg/light compression, Fed #215 mag.rifle caps, shortened BELL .50-70 brass/shortened .348Win brass. Dad forgot batteries for his chrono, but those slugs I recovered from the soft embankment were either flattened cylinders, or in the process of becoming your classic "mushroom" profile.
Jacketed slugs...? Hmmm. If you're fulfilling the "letter of the Law" in Your Hunting Regs, as in Need To use jacketed/expanding slugs, o.k. I guess. I would assume those are designed for "Express" velocities, and expansion would be nil to zero; you would however have a Jacketed Bullet, with a flat lead point to transmit whallop. With the high friction that the jacketed bullet would produce, relative to even a hard cast bullet, you should have enough inertia to ignite ffg powder very well. For now I'd NOT recommend "hotter" substitute powders, or fffg... Try ffg.
Now... L. Romano suggested to me that I cast hard {d=.515" with harder alloy}, and size to .515", for the .510" of his Spencer's barrel. Now, This Is Food For Thought!
Some of You have stated that your slugs are a little loose in your cases; I don't know what YOUR groove dimensions are, but if your carbine/rifle Will Easily Chamber with .515" slugs, TRY IT! Stick with a middle-of-the-road powder charge, and Watch Your Primers For Pressure Signs / use common sense. You just might get better accuracy, velocity, and combustion with less-than-MAX powder charges.
I REALLY need a lead hardness tester... Any advice out there? Is LEE o.k.?
GUYS! Don't worry too much about the lube grooves for your short carbine barrels; as long as there's a "lube star" on your muzzle, you're o.k.... Now, for your extended cowboy scenarios, or rifle-length barrels, I can't comment ~ yet!!
I'm also planning to slightly open up the primer flash-hole to see if the BP combustion can be improved, like J. S. Wolf did in his Trapdoor .45-70 Reloading Book {Buy this book, "trapdoor" shooters! It WORKS!}. I'll keep you all posted.
Cimarron is UPS-REDing my Infantry Rifle to my FFL!!! It'll be here Friday!!!! WooHooo!!!!! You All can bet that before spring semester begins, I'll have reloading data with all of my bullets, maybe even chrono info, if I'm lucky...!
Hope you all don't mind the 'wind'...!
Be Well!
M.T.Marfield
12-29-05