This is from Webley & Scott's company website. Great parts video. Exploring the site also shows Webley making a breechloading 1894 BP cannon for reinactors.
http://webleymkvi.com/
So if I'm reading this right, they're talking about reproducing Webley revolvers? Because that would make me a happy camper.
Ah my Dear Netizens -
Here We Go Again, a Re-Organized corp taking "subscriptions" against a "yet to be made" revolver.
this smells so much like the Merwin and Hulbert debacle....
the exception is that "whoever" Webley is now, they seem to have the ability to make Webley MkVI airpistols.
Altho it is linked, The official Webley and Scott website shows nothing about this
http://www.webley.co.uk/Pages/promotions.html
So some guy named Roger Williams at the shot show said to Jim Davis....
http://www.gunsandgunsmiths.com/?p=3046
-------------------------------------------------
I attended the 2015 SHOT Show and had the pleasure of speaking with Roger Williams at the Webley & Scott booth.... After chatting with Roger he informed us that W&S had indeed been debating about bringing back production on the MK VI, this being the 100 year anniversary of the Mk VI's adoption. I said "YES" so fast I almost bit my tongue off!
They had recently converted the original schematics for the Mk VI series to digital and are able to start production. The catch is, they need interest and Roger wasn't sure if there was enough interest in the American market. We assured him there was and he asked for our opinion on a "Founder's Club" where they would ask for 1000 people to sign up with $100 down payments to start production. I immediately raised my hand and proclaimed myself to be "first in line"
Well within a week of the show ending, the Founder's Club had started. I've already signed up myself and if you are at all interested in owning one of these amazing firearms, I highly suggest you sign up. They are shooting for an MSRP of under $1000 and with the price some of the 100 year old models are currently running, this is an excellent deal. So please, do yourself a favor and sign up for a Webley. I have, and I can't wait to get mine and try it out. Heck, I might even pick up one of the airguns in the meantime to fulfill the Webley shaped gap in my life.
-----------------------------------------------
so who is this Roger?
http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/webley-scott-english-arms-limited-02845050/
shows a plethora of info - Webley and Scott is a mere shell of its former self and Williams is the ONLY director
and LinkdIn shows
Roger Williams
Title
Director Webley & Scott Limited
Demographic info
Torquay, United Kingdom | Sporting Goods
Current
Director at Webley & Scott Limited
Summary
Anderson Consulting FCA N M Rothchilds & Sons Limited New Court Securities Dillon Read/ Concord Partners Quantum Ventures/ Ivan F Boesky Own ...
from wikipedia
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 2008, Webley sold to Webley (International) Limited but still produces products under the Webley name [11]
In January 2011 Webley (international) Limited held a creditors meeting Under Section 98 Insolvency Act 1986. On the 3 February 2011 Liquidators were appointed to Wiind Up the affairs of the company.[12]
According to the Statement of Affairs produced by the Liquidators, Webley (international) owed their unsecured creditors a sum of £164,595.76. They also owed money to one Secured Creditor, Webley Limited (in Liquidation) a sum of £140,000.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
from http://whois.domaintools.com/webleymkvi.com
the website webleymkvi.com
Dates Created on 2015-02-03 - Expires on 2017-02-03 -
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Christopher Bray
Registrant Organization: Logo Design Limited
Registrant Street: Engine House
Registrant City: Ivybridge
Registrant State/Province: Devon
Registrant Postal Code: PL21 9NX
Registrant Country: GB
Registrant Phone: +44.1752830000
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:
-------------------
Buyer Beware, good luck, have fun, YMMV (saw it right off), blah blah blah ;-)
yhs
prof marvel
Its on the Home Page.
http://www.webley.co.uk/Pages/home.html
But yes, as always, buyer beware.
If I wanted a Webley Mk VI again, I'd go to Gunbroker and find a nice one. I don't think it would cost me $1,000 either!
Quote from: Drydock on July 16, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Its on the Home Page.
http://www.webley.co.uk/Pages/home.html
But yes, as always, buyer beware.
Thanks Drydock! I am happy to see your correction!
I do hope this fellow can make it happen; at least they have some sort of product base -Does Webley do any of their own manufacturing or are they just a sales office?
Yessir, Niederlander - I too had to go look at the MarkVI's going for well under $1k ...
A MarkVI in the hand is worth 10 on the FoundersClubList
yhs
prof marvel
From what I understand, W&S production is based in Turkey now, has been since 1997. Just an office in England.
Ever so often ....the Dangling of the Proverbial Carrot ::)
* Fletcher Bidwell
* Bren 10
( guns produced only in small numbers before the company went bankrupt , the Vltor resurrection remains pipe dream for some )
* Merwin and Hulbert ....
* next ?
Webley sold the Cartridge Revolver factory to the Indian Government in the 50s & they have been manufacturing them there ever since for use by the Military & Police Faorces.
Col., so are you saying they are still making them and just tempting us by dangling the carrot to get us to order them? Dang, they're smarter than I thought. To have a product not readily available here but already in production, and then to let us all think they are gearing up for production just for us. Masterful marketing. And even if they aren't currently in production, if all the tooling is still there they get to put their people back to work and we still think they're doing it just for us. Glad I found one at the OGCA, a parts gun, but the cylinder is in .455 and not shaved. ;)
If Webley sold their cartridge revolver manufacturing capability to the Indian Government - then it 'sold' to the Indian Government and not to the outfit in Turkey.
It's the Turkish firm that is now entering into the realm of the Merwin, Hulbert world.
Scouts Out!
Quote from: St. George on August 02, 2015, 08:53:44 AM
If Webley sold their cartridge revolver manufacturing capability to the Indian Government - then it 'sold' to the Indian Government and not to the outfit in Turkey.
It's the Turkish firm that is now entering into the realm of the Merwin, Hulbert world.
Scouts Out!
With the complete failure of an American M-H reproduction (yep, bought two, paid up front, never got the guns), I would settle for Turkish made. I have a lot of Turkish manufactured SxS shotguns, and they are top notch quality.
Buy a 'real' Webley - a true British one - they're out there, and you can actually touch them.
The big Mark VIs were made by both Webley and by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock, during the Great War, and for a very few years afterward.
The un-cut ones bring a premium, but they're worth it and they're great fun to shoot - the round being much like firing a 40mm Grenade, in that you can watch the high parabolic arc as it sails through space and into the target when firing issue ammunition.
I seriously doubt these will ever be produced - they're 'just' like the failed Merwin,Hulbert and Fletcher-Bidwell projects were.
Scouts Out!
Well here we go again...
just a little over a year or slightly more since the announcement , and a year and 6 weeks since
the website webleymkvi.com went up .....
no news
and the silence on the webley mark VI .455 founders site is deafening!
all smoke and mirrors.
again.
so sad.
hey everybody's gotta have a hobby... mine is stalking snake oil salesmen!
maybe I need a Deerstalker Cap
yhs
prof (stalker) marvel
There were literally hundreds of thousands of original Mark VI Webley revolvers produced ... I foresee little or no need (... or market ...) for a resumption of production ...
::)
My thoughts exactly, Jack! It's sort of like reproducing Winchester '94's. Why?!
Quote from: Niederlander on March 20, 2016, 01:29:02 PM
My thoughts exactly, Jack! It's sort of like reproducing Winchester '94's. Why?!
Aye, but they are already reproducing Winchester '94s, in Japan by Miroku, and imported by Browning Arms. The only thing "Winchester" about them is Olin sold rights to use the name Winchester on them.
But in truth, that's 'not' a reproduction as reproductions are commonly viewed.
That's merely a continuation of the factory line - for the factory - albeit done off-shore.
Were they built here - by American workers - no one would want to pay the freight added on by benefits packages and demands, and the company would die.
Scouts Out!
A few years back some stalwart was drumming Webley Fosberys, also of Pakistan manufactor. Where are these revolvers? Be careful where you send your money!
Yep! They sure made a lot of those Webleys and they do still show up-even in the 21st century!
(http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/kragbolo/louiewebley.jpg)
Roughly the equivalent of someone preferring to pack a 1911 in order to be ensured of more knockdown power than a 9mm can hope to deliver!
;D
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Webley%20and%20other%20revolvers/Webley%20Mark%20VI%20revolver_zps7ingo2x4.jpg)
Quote from: RattlesnakeJack on March 20, 2016, 01:02:05 PM
There were literally hundreds of thousands of original Mark VI Webley revolvers produced ... I foresee little or no need (... or market ...) for a resumption of production ...
::)
That's very true, I'd just feel bad abusing an original too much. Same reason why I'm a little easier on my original firearms vs my reproductions.
But oh well, it looks like it's a moot point.
I shot a Webley Mark IV once. Found it very well made, agreeable and most accurate. If one in good condition crosses my path I'll buy it.
Quote from: St. George on March 20, 2016, 03:25:31 PM
But in truth, that's 'not' a reproduction as reproductions are commonly viewed.
That's merely a continuation of the factory line - for the factory - albeit done off-shore.
Were they built here - by American workers - no one would want to pay the freight added on by benefits packages and demands, and the company would die.
Scouts Out!
Lets visit that point a moment .... " continuation of the factory line - for the factory "
It is a continuation of the Olin " owned Brand
The Winchester factory failed in 1931 ... Merged with Simmons Hardware , Bankrupted and bought at auction by the Olin 's Western Cartridge Company.
Winchester-Western Division failed in the 70's and New Haven plant incorporated as the U.S. Repeating Arms Company closed.
And U.S. Repeating Arms went bankrupt in 1989, the name sold to (FN) Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal.
Olin has leased the Winchester in name only to Miroku Corp.
Olin will cease to manufacture Winchester Brand ammunition in it's Indiana facility, closing its doors by the end of 2016.
Not sure if they will Pimp the Ammo Brand as well ... :-\
Sorry...back to subject Webley's :)
And yet, it matters little...
No one recognized 'Olin' as a firearms manufacturer - but they 'do' recognize 'Winchester' - and when 'the factory' gets mentioned - it 'isn't' the Olin operation they recognize.
Geez, Louise - look at Colt and count who's owned them - S&W, too.
Now - going back to the Webley - in specific, the 'Webley-Fosbery'.
I used to think that longslide .45s were 'different' when fired, but the Webley-Fosbery takes the cake, since there's a weird, 'rail-car uncoupling' feeling, but they're unbelievably cool.
As to 'abusing' one - if you're doing that - stop it and sell the piece, but if you're merely shooting it - well, they were built to shoot, so do that - it's not going to hurt it.
Just don't suddenly decide that you're going to 'compete' with it like some SASS-mad shootin' fool - the originals never fired 'that' many in their combat careers...
Scouts Out!
Abusing wasn't the right term, but carrying around the family farm or as a woods gun, that kind of stuff. If I drop a repro, I'll swear and be mad at myself, but I won't feel quite as a bad about it as I would with an original piece. But point taken.
Get a 5 1/5" Ruger Blackhawk in 357 for a work gun, hard to go wrong with that combo and Ruger makes more all the time.
As far as damaging an "original", I figure I'm as much a part of its history as anyone else that's owned it. I don't abuse stuff, but if a few dings happen as part of using it, I don't get upset about it. I like to think the men who built the stuff we shoot built it to be used, not just to look at.
Quote from: Niederlander on March 22, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
I like to think the men who built the stuff we shoot built it to be used, not just to look at.
I'm fully onside with Ned! As many GAF members are aware I do use (and
compete with) many of my collectible firearms - original Snider-Enfield, Martini-Henry and Magazine "Long Lee" rifles as well as a variety of Victorian-era British (and American-made) handguns. As my good friend says ... they were made to be used
There were two of my antique British handguns in service during the main skirmish matches at the 2013 GAF Muster - my .476 Webley-Pryse revolver (in the hands of another good friend well-known in these parts) and also my .455/.476 Webley W.G. Army revolver (in my hands) .... both of which are older (and more valuable, for that matter) than a relatively run-of-the-mill 20th Century Webley Mark VI ...
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Webley%20and%20other%20revolvers/MyNo4labelled.jpg)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Webley%20and%20other%20revolvers/WGArmy_GaryD_02_sm2.jpg)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2013%20Muster/BacktoBack02_zps0a324af7.jpg)
Jack, I cannot get over how fantastic your collection is. And fair enough, point taken. Nothing wrong with some good honest wear, I suppose.
Some might say I'm overly careless with my firearms because I've got too many .... :-\
Hooray!
I whined about another factory failure and got lots folks to post pictures of their originals for us to admire and covet ....
I win!
yhs
prof whiner
Quote from: Delmonico on March 22, 2016, 05:17:06 PM
Get a 5 1/5" Ruger Blackhawk in 357 for a work gun, hard to go wrong with that combo and Ruger makes more all the time.
41 Mag
Quote from: OklaTom on March 23, 2016, 07:28:04 PM
41 Mag
More for the specialty person, the average person would be better with the 357, my choice is a 32 mag loaded to 327 S&W specs and has been for 30 years.
If you're tired of the political ads, make it a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. After about three rounds you won't be able to hear them any more!
Quote from: Niederlander on March 23, 2016, 08:31:48 PM
If you're tired of the political ads, make it a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. After about three rounds you won't be able to hear them any more!
True and I've always kinda wanted one but I hear hand loads with cast bullets of 150 gr and up are a lot nicer, like the differance in my 32 between 85's hot and 122's hot, night and day.
Two weapons almost took my moustache off when I first fired them - the .30M1 Carbine Ruger and the XM177E1.
Starry-eyed, was I...
Scouts Out!
Member Garry James 577 Snider Howada pistol looks like it would also, I passed because of my wrist problems, everyone might have got very hungry had I tried it.
I shot it with both his "light" loads and regular .577 service loads. It wasn't as bad as you might think, except for the fact that it was designed as a one hand gun. If you use two hands, the knob on the bottom of the trigger guard/latch bangs into the support hand's knuckles pretty hard. It has a lot of muzzle rise, but I think full house loads in my S&W .41 mag have a lot sharper recoil.
Quote from: pony express on March 24, 2016, 07:38:50 PM
I shot it with both his "light" loads and regular .577 service loads. It wasn't as bad as you might think, except for the fact that it was designed as a one hand gun. If you use two hands, the knob on the bottom of the trigger guard/latch bangs into the support hand's knuckles pretty hard. It has a lot of muzzle rise, but I think full house loads in my S&W .41 mag have a lot sharper recoil.
That's why they're called handguns not handsguns. ::)
Quote from: Scattered Thumbs on March 25, 2016, 03:08:16 AM
That's why they're called handguns not handsguns. ::)
Yup! And I usually use just one-but I freely admit to being a bit intimidated at the thought of launching a 500gr bullet with one hand! Especially from an original antique Howda probably worth as much as half of my entire collection.
Quote from: Scattered Thumbs on March 25, 2016, 03:08:16 AM
That's why they're called handguns not handsguns. ::)
I shot it with only one hand and it still smacked my knuckles pretty hard. I would say that it was the only time I've ever even noticed recoil in a handgun.
I'll admit that a pistol in the Snyder caliber is certainly a handful. ;)
I'd say, for it's intended use, keeping a tiger from climbing up on the elephant you were riding, I'd probably not notice the bruised knuckles.
Quote from: pony express on March 25, 2016, 06:56:57 PM
I'd say, for it's intended use, keeping a tiger from climbing up on the elephant you were riding, I'd probably not notice the bruised knuckles.
I'd say you are quite correct.
To me it makes no sense, I'm tiger hunting in a big laundry basket on an elaphant, a tiger trys to board, so I put down my rifle, grap this big pistol and shoot it? Tell me please, why that makes sense.
Kinda like the guy bear hunting with a 338 mag with a 500 S&W on his hip.
I was under the impression that the howdah pistol was a weapon of last resort against a tiger, not preferable to a rifle. No one safe on the back of the elephant would switch to the pistol, but the fella who just got knocked out of the howdah by 560Ibs of flying, angry big cat would surely be grateful for it.
Correction:
It was a 450-577 Martini-Henry cartridge Howda but either way you really wouldn't want to drop both hammers at the same time! :o
Quote from: Delmonico on March 26, 2016, 06:10:18 AM
To me it makes no sense, I'm tiger hunting in a big laundry basket on an elaphant, a tiger trys to board, so I put down my rifle, grap this big pistol and shoot it? Tell me please, why that makes sense.
Kinda like the guy bear hunting with a 338 mag with a 500 S&W on his hip.
Consider this, the tiger will only jump on top of the elephant if you already have missed it with both barrels of your rifle.
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Guns%20Misc/Garry%20James%20Howdah%2001_zpss9jaxjpd.jpg)
Quote from: Delmonico on March 26, 2016, 06:10:18 AM
To me it makes no sense ... Kinda like the guy bear hunting with a 338 mag with a 500 S&W on his hip.
In both cases, Glen, it makes eminently good sense! In each scenario, the rifle is obviously the primary weapon of choice for the hunt ... but, once empty, that rifle is nothing more than a very expensive club, which any sensible person will gladly and quickly abandon in favour of the handgun to deal with an enraged/wounded carnivore of the deadliest sort rapidly closing in on him!
Quote from: Pitspitr on March 26, 2016, 07:39:13 AM
Correction: It was a 450-577 Martini-Henry cartridge Howda but either way you really wouldn't want to drop both hammers at the same time! :o
Actually, Garry's howdah pistol is, indeed, chambered for .577 Snider ... this is a Guns & Ammo video featuring the very pistol he had with him at that Muster - http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/howdah-pistol/ (http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/howdah-pistol/)
One thing Garry says in this video is a bit "off" ... something along the lines of "... if the tiger is still coming when you have emptied your rifle,
you'd load this thing up ..." Rest assured (and as Garry is of course well aware, despite that slip of the tongue) one most definitely wouldn't wait until then to load it ... it (or even better, a pair of them ... would be very close at hand and all ready to go!
(Another minor point, if I may: the Martini-Henry cartridge is most commonly referred to as ".577/.450" ...)
I think, and this is just my thoughts, I would prefer one of the large caliber 5 shot DA revolvers made by either Webley or Adams as my back up hand held gun.
My best,
Blair
Assuming you have in mind the .450/.455/.476 family of revolver cartridges (all of which are, in fact, .455) as someone who shoots such revolvers regularly, I would prefer the .577 Howdah pistol for a tiger ... the usuual revolver cartridges are really not all that powerful.
Mind you, if you meant one of the .577 revolvers, such a backup piece might indeed come in handy!
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Webley%20and%20other%20revolvers/577Webley.jpg)
The .577 revolver cartridge was nowhere near as powerful as the .577 rifle cartridge for which the howdah pistols were usually chambered. Still, it threw a pretty massive chunk of lead, as can be seen in this comparison with a .45ACP cartridge -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Webley%20and%20other%20revolvers/577revolver_45ACP.jpg)
Jack,
My thinking was in the pre cartridge time frame. Like large bore Webley percussion revolvers.
I have a small bore, .36 cal. 1853 Webley revolver. I would not use this revolver as a back up for Tiger hunting, but would consider it's "bigger brother" in a .50 cal. big bore size.
My best,
Blair
Quote from: Blair on March 26, 2016, 04:04:18 PM
Jack,
My thinking was in the pre cartridge time frame. Like large bore Webley percussion revolvers.
I have a small bore, .36 cal. 1853 Webley revolver.
My best,
Blair
Unsuitable for a charging tiger. Unless you're on the tiger's team.
Note. Not really experienced with tigers, but how different can they be from an angry lion? Lightning fast in the attack and nearly unstoppable.
Good way to end up in the litter box.
Still think the rifle makes the most sense, but then, like today people have to have toys that are maybe not suitable to the task.
Quote from: Delmonico on March 26, 2016, 05:38:02 PM
Good way to end up in the litter box.
Still think the rifle makes the most sense, but then, like today people have to have toys that are maybe not suitable to the task.
Del, you're not paying attention. The rifle
was the main gun. But you won't have time to reload it if you miss. And it was quite easy to miss both shots. The speed of the charge is amazing. The Howdah pistol (with the tiger already over you) was your last chance to get to tell the story to your grandchildren.
I still doubt you'd have a chance to grab it. ;)
In many circumstances you'd be correct, I'm sure, Glen (see below: three narrowly separated frames from a film or video of a tiger attack - although the most tempting target for the tiger would firstly be the mahout riding out on the elephant's neck, as shown there) ... however, regardless, as the Facebook memes keep telling us (more or less): "Better to have a howdah pistol and not need it, than to need a howdah pistol and not have it!"
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Guns%20Misc/Tiger%20attack_zps84l0ahnf.jpg)
At any rate, with one or more such pistols mounted on the inside wall of the howdah (which is where they were carried) ... loaded and ready to go ... they would be a lot faster to bring into play than reloading the rifle!
Besides they are cool old relics to see, (for me, not to shoot) would be interesting to know how many if any were ever used for what they were built for.
Quote from: RattlesnakeJack
Actually, Garry's howdah pistol is, indeed, chambered for .577 Snider ... this is a Guns & Ammo video featuring the very pistol he had with him at that Muster -url=http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/howdah-pistol/]http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/howdah-pistol/[/url](Another minor point, if I may: the Martini-Henry cartridge is most commonly referred to as ".577/.450" ...)
??? Just goes to show how memory can be mistake. I was sure I remembered it as being necked down. I never get you Brit's cartridges right do I? :-[
Being .577 Snider would explain why it had, ummm, stout recoil.
Actually, recoil with the Snider cartridge would be less, if anything ... ;)
The standardized military loadings of both cartridges incorporated a 480gr bullet, but the powder charge of the Snider was only 70 grains whereas that of the Martini-Henry was 85 grains ...
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Cartridges/Snider%20and%20MH%20cartridge_comparison%20of%20genral%20specs_zpsbgdgpjbs.jpg)
Doesn't the bullet weigh more though?
Of course on the other hand the .50-70 and the .45-70 use the same amount of powder and the 480 gr 50-70 bullet while it weighs more does appear to have less felt recoil than the 405gr .45-70.
NM I guess I just answered my own question.
Quote from: Pitspitr on March 27, 2016, 02:31:09 PM
Doesn't the bullet weigh more though?
No ... 480 grain bullet for both ... see the specs above.