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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => 1860 Henry => Topic started by: The Swede on October 18, 2013, 09:03:36 AM

Title: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: The Swede on October 18, 2013, 09:03:36 AM
2 questions for you all. Has anyone put a tang sight on a henry? Also, with the 2 screw holes on the tang already would the sight fit with them, or do new holes need to be drilled?

Sorry, a third question... Would it be historically accurate?

Swede
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: matt45 on October 18, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
Not being the thorough expert but...
I've never seen a tang sight on a Henry- and I'm pretty sure that Sword's and Quick's books does not show any pictures of one w/ tang sights.
     Having said that, there very well could have been a retro fit at some time or the other.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: PJ Hardtack on October 18, 2013, 11:31:44 AM
The Madis book makes no mention and has no pictures of a tang sight on a Henry. But so what? It's your rifle. It does show one with a Malcolm telescope, though.
"The Age of the Gunfighter" by J.G. Rosa has several good pics of original Henry's, none of them equipped with tang sights.

A friend just put a Marble's tang sight on his Henry. I'll ask him to post the details.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Will Ketchum on October 18, 2013, 11:39:07 AM
Since there were tang sights available one could be put on a Henry.  If you want it for CAS I am not a fan of tang sights for competition because too much can go wrong.  I have found that a full buckhorn type sight is faster and more dependable. I have them on all my CAS rifles and use them like a ghost ring.  The one I most recommend and the one I use

  http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/877/1/RS-PM-1

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Yeso Bill on October 18, 2013, 12:12:06 PM
Whoops, I see that P.J. and Will are posting while I'm pecking.

Here is what I've got.  By the way, I'm with P.J. on this, "so what?"  ;D  For competition, the sight will easily fold down or maybe better yet, come off. 

In THE WINCHESTER BOOK, Madis shows no pictures of tang sighted Henry's.  However on pages 92 & 93 there are three tang sighted 66s.  He states that the 1st patented Lyman sights are marked 1879 and that "special sights on any Winchester are rare, especially the 66".  (That is in the 66 chapter.) 

That said, I just installed a Marbles Tang Sight on my Henry.  You will have to buy the screw kit separately and drill the second hole.  The Henry screw kit comes with the rear screw too long and the front screw is a wood screw which will enter the stock within a 1/16" of the front.  Not liking that, I ordered the 66 screw kit which has a shorter rear screw and a short 10 x 32 front screw, drilled, tapped and mounted it yesterday.

It looks like Marbles came along with their sights about 1892 and I went with it instead of the earlier Lyman because the Lyman has no windage adjustment and the Henry has no front sight windage adjustment.   

The sight really tightened up my groups and I have shot it once with a resulting 5 shot group measuring .626" @ 40 yards. - 36 gr. Swiss #2 and Accurate 215 weighing 221gr.

Billy
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: PJ Hardtack on October 18, 2013, 12:50:16 PM
I see a lot of tang sights in use at CAS events and for shooting large targets at 25 yds or less, I wonder why ..... ? However, not haven't tried it, my opinion lacks validity.

I grew up in the pre-scope era when a receiver peep sight was all the rage on Winchester 94's, M70's and other hunting rifles. Townsend Whelan was a big proponent. He advocated using the insert for long shots and removing it for snap shooting at closer range.

My wife's Marlin 39 has the classic side mounted receiver sight and she loves it! She doesn't use the insert.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Yeso Bill on October 18, 2013, 12:57:12 PM
P.S.  My rifle only had one screw in the upper tang.  P.J. just said his has two.  I will be glad to pull the sight off and measure it for you.

Billy
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 18, 2013, 03:08:11 PM
Most here are Cowboy Action Shooters.
Does Historical authenticity/correctness really matter all that much?
IMHO... not much! I am very sorry to say.
Ask yourself what you want out of this sport. Then do what you want... and go for that. Forget all the other BS!
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Will Ketchum on October 18, 2013, 04:01:01 PM
Quote from: Blair on October 18, 2013, 03:08:11 PM
Most here are Cowboy Action Shooters.
Does Historical authenticity/correctness really matter all that much?
IMHO... not much! I am very sorry to say.
Ask yourself what you want out of this sport. Then do what you want... and go for that. Forget all the other BS!
Blair

For SASS no but for NCOWS yes.  For our game I see no advantage of a tang sight over a full buckhorn and several disadvantages.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 18, 2013, 08:00:27 PM
Will,
Thanks, you understand the point I was wishing to make
My best,
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on October 19, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
Howdy

I put the Track of the Wolf sight that Will recommends on my Henry. I like it a lot better than the stock ladder sight that comes on the rifle.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/henry/trackofthewolfrearsight02.jpg)
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: matt45 on October 20, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
That's the sight I put on mine, and I like it a lot better than the stock (old eyes).
     Driftwood, did you square up the notch on your sight?
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: The Swede on October 20, 2013, 05:55:44 PM
Wow lots of great responses here fellas! I through the "historical" bit as I personally love the History that goes with our sport. There is no NCOWS up here in the Dominion Of Canada that I am aware of. I am asking because my close vision decided to move farther, and farther away!
I used aperture sights during my time in the Army. C1A1 rifles (FN-FAL) at first, later C7s (M16). My Henry has 2 screws in the tang, so I was curious as to whether or not it would be simple to attach a tang sight.

The idea of using the sight from Track Of The Wolf is a good idea as well, I am more interested in a tang sight personally.

Swede
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on October 21, 2013, 09:49:26 AM
QuoteDriftwood, did you square up the notch on your sight?

Yeah, I did a little bit of filing on the sight. Truth be told, the casting was kind of rough. Not as nicely finished as a sight from Marbles, but a Marbles sight is too long. I did some filing on it to smooth it up a bit, and make it symmetrical. The dovetail was a little bit small for the dovetail in the Henry, I had to shim it from underneath to get it to fit without slipping. I am always very careful of the sight at the loading table when loading the rifle, I never place the sight on the table, I always hang it over the edge of the table. I don't think it would survive a strong blow.

Regarding tang sights, my Henry only has one screw on the top of the tang, all the way at the back. If I wanted to put a tang sight on I would need to drill and tap another hole, and the existing screw would not be long enough to go through the tang sight and the tang. The screw extends all the way to the bottom tang. This screw and  a wood screw on the bottom tang are what holds the stock on the rifle.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: cactus joe on October 22, 2013, 02:35:14 PM
I did as yeso did, put a marbles on. I don't compete in any completion, but the site helps my eyes focus better, and I like having a windage adjustment. Yes it had to be drilled a taped as others have said.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: The Swede on October 23, 2013, 03:11:08 AM
Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on October 21, 2013, 09:49:26 AM
Regarding tang sights, my Henry only has one screw on the top of the tang, all the way at the back. If I wanted to put a tang sight on I would need to drill and tap another hole, and the existing screw would not be long enough to go through the tang sight and the tang. The screw extends all the way to the bottom tang. This screw and  a wood screw on the bottom tang are what holds the stock on the rifle.

I guess what I am asking is whether the tang sight would fit my Uberti Henry as it has 2 screws in the tang, and without drilling?

Mine is a few years older...

Swede
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Yeso Bill on October 23, 2013, 01:06:43 PM
Ill measure that base late this afternoon.

Billy
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 23, 2013, 04:20:15 PM
Once you have done the measuring, you may want to see if you can find an original Henry with a tang sight.
Only "one" will do. Even if it is aftermarket.
One should satisfy a couple of hundred for the modern CAS/SASS gamers.
On the other hand, If you can't find even just "one"... then leave it alone?
Just a thought.
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: PJ Hardtack on October 23, 2013, 04:34:13 PM
So there you have it, Swede.

Forget that it's YOUR rifle and satisfy the SASS herd.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 23, 2013, 04:51:42 PM
PJ,

No!
What I am saying is "satisfy" historical fact first.
Then no one needs to try to justify a want-to-make believe "wish-upon-a star" fantasy.
Who knows, it may save an individual some money in the long run?
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: PJ Hardtack on October 23, 2013, 05:49:57 PM
Blair

We are playing a "fantasy game", even the most dedicated, dyed-in-the-wool NCOWsBoys and their valiant attempts at historical purity. And if it's his money - what the hey.

On the BP forum of this site, there was just a convoluted discussion about re-inventing the wheel and the impracticality and difficulties of doing it, not to forget about the cost.

If someone has the talent and/or money to pursue this sort of thing, why not? Look what it did for the BPCR silhouette game and the way it raised the bar for long range BPCR shooting. Ever increasing rates of twist in the barrels, heavier bullets, etc. have left the historic cartridges far behind.
The only resemblance between them and the historic rounds is the headstamp on the casing.
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Yeso Bill on October 23, 2013, 07:30:51 PM
Swede,

     It looks like if your centers are anywhere from 2" to 2.250, the sight will bolt up.  The rear hole in the sight is oblong, measuring about .332" in total length, giving quite abit of wiggle room.

Billy   
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: The Swede on October 23, 2013, 10:21:33 PM
Quote from: Yeso Bill on October 23, 2013, 07:30:51 PM
Swede,

     It looks like if your centers are anywhere from 2" to 2.250, the sight will bolt up.  The rear hole in the sight is oblong, measuring about .332" in total length, giving quite abit of wiggle room.

Billy   

That sounds great. I will check it out.

Thanks,

Swede
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: The Swede on October 23, 2013, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Blair on October 23, 2013, 04:20:15 PM
Once you have done the measuring, you may want to see if you can find an original Henry with a tang sight.
Only "one" will do. Even if it is aftermarket.
One should satisfy a couple of hundred for the modern CAS/SASS gamers.
On the other hand, If you can't find even just "one"... then leave it alone?
Just a thought.
Blair

Blair you have been very helpful. My main reason for thinking about a tang sight was eye sight issues. I  hadn't planned on getting a henry  initially I was going to go the Spencer route. But after careful thought I didn't. Not being able to break a minute on my times helped to.
I had also thought about short stroking the Henry as well (Gasp!). =-O
But I gave up that idea too.
I love the history behind the sport, but ultimately it has to be fun. That is why I only shoot black powder.
Keep in mind that all of you out there are why this sport is fun.

Swede
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: The Swede on October 23, 2013, 10:39:40 PM
Thank you all for your help, advice, and insight! 

Thank you all!

Swede
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 24, 2013, 07:56:56 AM
Swede,

Here's a thought, and, it is documented on original Henry's.
Try moving the rear barrel sight back to the top of the receiver. Just far enough so the ladder, when folded down. will not interfere with the ejection port.
This will bring the rear sight closer to your eye and increase the overall sight radius.
My best,
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: PJ Hardtack on October 24, 2013, 10:00:09 AM
I often wondered about the dovetail slot seen in pics of original Henrys.

While it would provide a longer sight radius as Blair said, there has to be a reason why it was not the standard sight position.
Putting the rear sight so close to the eye is not the optimum position for most normal eyesight, hence the placement of rear sights out further on the barrel.

Only way to find out is to make a cardboard rear sight, tape it on the receiver and see if it works for you.


Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Will Ketchum on October 24, 2013, 12:06:01 PM
I actually cut a dovetail on the receiver for the rear sight.  it didn't work with the stock sight because it was just a blur.  I never tried the full buckhorn there it might just have worked. ???

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 25, 2013, 04:58:51 PM
Will.

When "you" are shooting ... what do you or your eyes focus on during sighting?
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Will Ketchum on October 25, 2013, 05:20:17 PM
Quote from: Blair on October 25, 2013, 04:58:51 PM
Will.

When "you" are shooting ... what do you or your eyes focus on during sighting?
Blair

Blair, it depends on what type of shooting I am doing.  For CAS and combat style shooting I concentrate on the front sight and the target.  For precise target type shooting I try for a good sight picture and let the target blur out.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Blair on October 25, 2013, 06:17:10 PM
Will,

Same for me.
In most (maybe not all) cases, my eye focuses on the front sight only.
Everything out fare, or close is very much a bluer.
With age, making this sighting change becomes more difficult.
This factor is very important for most folks.
My best,
Blair
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Sleepy Floyd on February 24, 2014, 10:00:45 AM
Mr. Ketchum,

The sight you mentioned,  Does that fit without and problems or modifications?

Mike
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Will Ketchum on February 24, 2014, 12:43:23 PM
Mike, I put on both a 66 and a Henry and it fit the dovetails as best as I can recall.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: Tang sight on Henry
Post by: Sleepy Floyd on February 24, 2014, 03:38:57 PM
Thank you.

Time to order.

Mike