I am a novice in the .45 Schofield / .45 Colt round. I am looking for a .45 Schofield load to use in my Uberti .45 Colt Wells Fargo model. I am planning on using it as a cowboy action round. Anyone have a favorite load to share?
Hi,
I started firing Schofields in my Schofields, and finally use them entirely in both my Schofields and my '73 .45 cal. Uberti/Taylor s/Codymatic Winchester reproduction.
The person who reloads for me says that they are just the right size to avoid using fillers ....
One word of caution, 'though; the Schofield round is right at the shortest round that can be used in a '73 Winchester ... I would measure each LOA to avoid getting a bullet jammed behind the carrier ... don't ask ... and it is even worse if it happens at a staged/timed event .... again, don't ask *S*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Schofield
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt
Flatapple, I'm confused . . . do you have an Uberti "Schofield" repro, Wells Fargo model, chambered for the .45 Schofield round ? Or a Colt 1873 repro ?
I hope I have this right. It's my understanding that the original S&W Schofield .45 caliber round will chamber in the Colt 1873 .45 cal. Army models (the "Peacemaker"). They are shorter than .45 Colt rounds, and have a larger diameter rim. Of course, .45 long Colt rounds are too long for the "real" Schofield.
Uberti makes "Schofield" repros with a longer cylinder, chambered for the .45 long Colt round. I have one, as well as an original "Peacemaker", and a '94 Marlin chambered for .45 long Colt.
I've been loading 7.5 grains of "Trail Boss" behind a 250gr. cast bullet for all three pieces for CAS matches. I like the Trail Boss, as it's almost as bulky as black powder. That load is a little peppy for CAS I've been told, but it's pleasant to shoot, and runs about 850 fps.
Rifles tend to be pickier than revolvers about what you shoot through'm. I have used 'Long Colt' brass from day one. I also use a 200 gr RNFP bullet. You could, if you want, back off on the amount of powder but that's your call. I load hotter than most, 200 gr bullet at 940 fps. I use the same load for carry and for hunting. If you're just shooting for fun then some load between 650 and 700 fps ought to be about right.
Shotgun,
I just wanted one bullet for all three weapons (i.e., my Schofield pistols and '73 Winnie/Uberti/Taylor's/Codynatic. Any '73 set up for .45 LC will shoot Schofield if the LOA is correct .... for the Schofield .... so the guy who does my reloading suggested the Schofield 'cause it does not need any filler to make the .2 inch shorter cartridge fill to the bullet ... cheper,less recoil, more fun; I haven't looked back ....
TTFN,
You lost me. I use the same load in all of my guns. Why worry about a Schofield load being to short when .45 Colt brass works fine in every one of these guns?
Shotgun,
I would have been perfectly fine with .45 LC .... it was my reloader (a long time competitor in SASS himself) who suggested the change to .45 Schofield. He said he could put the gunpowder in a .45 casing and then put some kind of filler over it ... but why?
By using the Schofield brass. with its .2" shorter shell, he is able to put the same amount of gunpowder in the casing , and does not have to deal with the filler ... if you own Schofields (or even Colts or Colt clones), borrow some Schofield casings and try it out ....
Don't really know if any other Winchester but the '73 will accept Schofield ammo ... I would suggest finding out the mininmum LOA your rifle will handle ... it is pretty common knowledge ....
Shotgun & WWE; Which powders are you using. The confusion might be clarified if we knew if blackpowder or smokeless was involved.
I use Red Dot. I see no reason to go to a shorter case when what I'm using works. I encourage everyone to use what works for them.
I would be concerned about using the shorter Schofield round in the Winchester replica. My Winchester 94 chambered in 44 magnum does not like shorter 44 special rounds and sometimes fails to feed them although it never hiccups on 44 magnum. I shoot full length 45 Colt rounds in my Uberti Schofield and use 200gr RNFP lead bullets. Just insure you don't exceed the max oal of 1.6" and you'll be fine.
QuoteI would have been perfectly fine with .45 LC .... it was my reloader (a long time competitor in SASS himself) who suggested the change to .45 Schofield. He said he could put the gunpowder in a .45 casing and then put some kind of filler over it ... but why?
Howdy
If your reloader is putting filler over Smokeless powder, I would look for another reloader. Filler should NEVER be added to a Smokeless round. If the powder does not fill up the case, just leave it rattling around inside.
If we are talking Black Powder, and the OP still has not answered that question, then it is a different story. Putting filler, like corn meal or grits, over Black Powder to take up some of the extra space is a fairly common practice. With Black Powder you do not want any airspace left inside, so if you want a lighter load, using filler to take up some of the space is a fairly common practice.
My standard load for 45 Schofileld is 1.9CC of FFg under a 200 grain J/P-45 200 bullet. A very nice bullet if I do say so myself. I don't think I have ever loaded one with Smokeless, but there are recipes out there on line with the powder companies.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp)
When it comes to reloading the old cartridges which originally held black powder, the selection of powder is critical. Red dot is not one I would ever use, Trail Boss comes to mind first. As for using Schofield rounds, I have had problems with some reproductions not having as much room for the rim as you might wish. The original rims were larger on the Schofield I think, and some replica guns do not have enough room for the rims if not chambered for the round.
Red Dot has a similar burning rate to Bullseye and Bullseye was used in factory .45 Colt cartridges for many years.
w44wcf
I have used Trailboss & Hodgdon's Titegroup with a lot of satisfaction in the .45 Shcofield.
I loaded them for my Wife in a New Vaquero .45 Colt. I used Hodgdon's starting loads for both. I used a Starline 250gr lead bullet with Trailboss & the Lyman 454190 with Titegroup. These loads are a lot of fun & as starting loads, easy on gun & shooter.
The use of the .45 S&W (Schofield) in the .45 Colt is very authentic too. For a time the U.S. suspended making the .45 Colt because they had both guns in use & at times would get the .45 Colt to units issued the Schofield. The Schofield will work in either, but the Colt is too long for the Schofield cylinder.
It's an authentic ctg & a lot of fun to work with.
QuoteFor a time the U.S. suspended making the .45 Colt because they had both guns in use & at times would get the .45 Colt to units issued the Schofield.
Actually, there is no recorded incident of this happening. It certainly could have, but there is no record of it happening.
Sir Charles,
This is sounds pretty lame, but a friend loads my Schofield shells and I have no idea what powder he uses ... I know it hits the target with aplomb and is probably smokeless as I have had no fouling issues .... I will check with him when he returns ... he is out on a shooting tour ...
TTFN,
Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on July 30, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Actually, there is no recorded incident of this happening. It certainly could have, but there is no record of it happening.
You are possibly correct. I was going from what I've read by Mike Venturino in Shooting Sixguns Of the Old West
Page 159.
Mike states: In 1874 the Army finally gave Smith & Wesson a contract for their version of a cavary revolver. This came to be known as the famous "Schofield". Almost immediatly after the first Schofiels were distributed to troops oin 1875, ammunition problems appeared. Some units were issued the S&W revolver, but given .45 Colt ammunition which of course would not chamber in it. Therefore, the government's Frankfort Arsenal concentrated on the .45 S&W round which would chamber in either S&W or Colt sixgun. This practice continued until 1882.
It may not have actually happened, but I was in the Army & have seen some collosial foul ups??? :-\ I think Mr. Venturino has probably researched his material before writing. Anyway it is believable?
Thanks.
Back to flatapple's question, there are some very good loads in the Hodgdon's reloading manual. I hesitate to state actual loads on any forum, but the Hodgdon's manual is only about $8 in my area & has a lot of great loads in it.
Good shooting, the .45 Schofield AKA .45 S&W is a fun ctg.
Red Dot is absolutely the cleanest powder I've used in my guns. It shoots hard and is plenty accurate.I tried about 6 different powders from Unique to Trail Boss and am really happy with Red Dot.
Quote from: Shotgun Franklin on July 31, 2013, 09:48:16 PM
Red Dot is absolutely the cleanest powder I've used in my guns. It shoots hard and is plenty accurate.I tried about 6 different powders from Unique to Trail Boss and am really happy with Red Dot.
Interesting you mentioned that. I found some Red Dot loads I'd loaded several years ago hiding in a coffee can. I shot them & in an ejectorless SA the cases fell out with a shake of the gun & no unburned powder in the gun either. I'm going to load some more....
Eddie Janis www.peacemakerspecialists.com told me about that powder for the .45 Colt, probably 8 years ago.
QuoteYou are possibly correct. I was going from what I've read by Mike Venturino in Shooting Sixguns Of the Old West
Page 159.
Mike states: In 1874 the Army finally gave Smith & Wesson a contract for their version of a cavary revolver. This came to be known as the famous "Schofield". Almost immediatly after the first Schofiels were distributed to troops oin 1875, ammunition problems appeared. Some units were issued the S&W revolver, but given .45 Colt ammunition which of course would not chamber in it. Therefore, the government's Frankfort Arsenal concentrated on the .45 S&W round which would chamber in either S&W or Colt sixgun. This practice continued until 1882.
It may not have actually happened, but I was in the Army & have seen some collosial foul ups??? Undecided I think Mr. Venturino has probably researched his material before writing. Anyway it is believable?
Thanks.
Yeah, I have that book too. Mike is a great gun writer, and a great champion of the old guns, but I think if you pin him down he will not be able to actually refer you to any hard evidence of such a snafu actually happening. Yeah, it has been written about for years, and it is certainly within the realm of possibility, there just is not any evidence of it happening.
Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on August 03, 2013, 04:46:57 PM
Yeah, I have that book too. Mike is a great gun writer, and a great champion of the old guns, but I think if you pin him down he will not be able to actually refer you to any hard evidence of such a snafu actually happening. Yeah, it has been written about for years, and it is certainly within the realm of possibility, there just is not any evidence of it happening.
;D ;D ;D
I'm not going to argue about it. Maybe it did maybe it didn't.
I wasn't there & it's been so long ago that it makes little difference now.
Let's go shooting! ;)
The .45 S&W is short enough that it's a great ctg for reduced loads in the .45 Colt, & it's not a bad ctg on it's own.
Hello the camp,
Possibly not quite appropriate for this thread, but...
I am assuming as far as safety goes that any safe load in a Uberti Schofield is safe to shoot in a Uberti Henry, and vise versa. A general question for the board- Which action is actually the strongest? And no worries- I have no intention of hot loading either weapon ;)
Howdy Matt45,
I'm not sure which cartridge you are referring to, .45 Colt or .45 Schofield. I don't believe the reproduction Henry rifles are chambered for the .45 Schofield. I think you would have feed problems with a Henry rifle chambered for .45 Colt if you load it with .45 Scholfield rounds as they are too short.
As to loads being safe in both guns, any safe load listed for a Colt SAA in a loading manual will be safe.
The Henry Rifle will be stronger than the Schofield pistol.
Silver Rings
Hi,
I can't say about the Henry, but in the '73, the only problem that I have had is when the bullet was pressed in too short, causing the round to be below minimum length. The Scofield is so short that it is right at the minimum OAL and must be checked if reloading ... twould be easy enough to check ... don't ask how I know ... *S*
Just for fun here is the Wikipedia ... which has a good comparison of the Colt and Schofield .45s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Schofield
To date I have had no problems chambering the 45 Schofield in the Henry. I use a RNFP between 200 and 230 grs. I'd have to get out my caliper to give ya'll the OAC, but my source for all this was Pettifrogger, and I reckon he knows of what he says ;D
::)... and it was Poncho Peacemaker that suggested using the 45 Schofield in the Henry- and he is another fine individual. There is an article re- printed on the Henry Forum (by Driftwood Johnson, I believe) that goes into detail on how a toggle- link works, and how one could modify the carrier block to accept shorter rounds, but to date it hasn't been an issue w/ me
What would be an issue is if I accidentally stuck one of my bear/ moose 45 LC loads in either the Henry or Schofield. I'm stupid, but not that stupid (oh wait, I might be that stupid).
Matt45,
There should not be a problem/issue within the revolver.
However, within the lever action Rifle there could be an issue with the overall cartridge length and how it may or might feed through the receiver mechanism.
I hope this helps.
My best,
Blair
Blair,
That was my plan ... to measure the round's OAL and use the below minimum in my Schofields ... I can tell you now that if you use a too short OAL, they could become stuck under the uh, carriers in a '73 ... not a difficult thing to fix (twas fixed at the unloading table). But the resulting stage-not completed meant that I just should have gone home ...
But I am digressing .... the short round loaded (and fired) just fine from a pistol ...