How many use a hand stictch? Do you use a saddle stich? How do you make you holes? Do you punch them with and awl or use a leather punch? I usally punch mine with a leather punch. But if there is a better way I would like to know.
I hand stitch using two needles. I don't know what a saddle stitch is since I'm still a newbie to leatherwork. I use an awl to make the stitching holes.
Slim
Hand-stitch using two needles and an awl. Makes for sore fingers at times.
I hand stitch using an awl. I have a punch that does 5 holes per inch, but it really doesn't work on real thick leather, ie holster thickness. Nothing holds better than the saddle stitch, imho.
They make an awl/needle/bobbin hand contraption that seems to work well...mine looks sort of like this one:
http://www.safetycentral.com/spsthaoplese.html (http://www.safetycentral.com/spsthaoplese.html)
And if the leather is too thick, I'll mark it and take it out to the drill press with a 1/16" or so bit :)
I have always used a dremel tool and a 1/16 bit. Then a saddle stitch with 2 needles...
This is a money belt, roughout, stiched along the top and one end. Also some stiching on the holsters. This pic shows in the white, now has a light tan stain...
(image deleted from photobucket)
I use Hand sewing (saddle stitch) and machine sewing, just depends on the project. For hand sewing there are a number of ways you can do it as seen by the posts above. However there are several ways that will get you the best results.
1. Is the traditional way with a diamond blad awl. Two of the points of the diamond are sharp and you punch your holes at the proper angle to allow the thread to always pull against a flat side. This is the strongest way. Don't use a round scratch awl as it just punchs a jagged hole and will cause more of a postage stamp affect to your leather.
2. Is useing a special Stiching punch(not lacing chisel) that will punch several small slits that will work the same as #1 above for making holes. This is great for large project of light to medium weight leather. On really thick leather the chisel is hard to punch thru the thickness of leather.
For spacing of holes for #1 you should use a stitch marker or overspace wheel to mark your holes before punching. They come in 5, 6 or 7 for the number of holes per inch. For most work you will use a 5. Size 6 or 7 is for fine work like gloves. After sewing you the same wheel over your stitching to make the thread nice and flat. For really good instructions on hand sewing invest in "The Art of Hand Sewing by Al Stohlman" this book is like the bible of hand sewing and one of the best reference books I have found.
I use a double needle stitch on everything. It has some major advantages over a lock stitch, mainly that if one thread breaks, the other is still holding.
I recently bought a stitching pony, not the tiny they sell at Tandy, but a larger one off of Ebay and I'm loving using it. It really makes the double needle stitch easy to do.
Later,
Laff-a-lot Louie
I also use a double needle stitch on everything. I don't do enough to warrant buying a machine and besides, it's stronger.
Hello all again,
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leather-Stitching-Clamp-Pony-3-Models-Slicker-Stick_W0QQitemZ8223454278QQcategoryZ28133QQcmdZViewItem
This is the gentleman I bought the stitchin pony from. The one I bought is the one pictured on the right, not the one he's currently selling. I like the wider size for sewing holsters and such. So far it has worked out great. Makes me wonder how I ever got along without it.
If you hate juggling needles and such for the double needle stitch, then try a stitching pony. It really makes a difference.
There are also instructions out there on the web on how to build your own. Something I didn't have the time or the tools to do myself so I paid someone else for their time and tools.
Later,
Laff-a-lot Louie
Thanks for the link, Laffalotlouie. I made one like the one on the left, but it's more trouble than it's worth. Maybe mine isn't big enough.
Quote from: laffalotlouie on October 05, 2005, 06:23:51 PM
...
There are also instructions out there on the web on how to build your own. Something I didn't have the time or the tools to do myself so I paid someone else for their time and tools.
Later,
Laff-a-lot Louie
Here's one.
http://wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_stitchpony.html
Slim
Excellent link...!!!
Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on October 05, 2005, 08:23:19 PM
Thanks for the link, Laffalotlouie. I made one like the one on the left, but it's more trouble than it's worth. Maybe mine isn't big enough.
I have tried to use a Pony before but I handstitched without one for so long it felt clumbsy to me.....but those are real nice looking ones.
I learned the saddle stitch from my ex-wife who is a saddle maker, and has her own shop. The secrete to the saddle stitch is to NEVER pass the needle through the opposing thread. As we learned in psysics, materials of the same material will abraid each other at a high rate.( one thread against the other) My ex tought me to pass one needle through the hole, then pull the thread downwerd. This leaves the top of the hole free to pass the second needle through with out piercing the first thread.
I love a good stitching pony, however I built my own to have an upward sloping jaw, which allows me to stitch at an upward angle (about 45 degrees). Just my personal taste!
Sure love this forum for leather workers, I learn a lot from all of you ! RHR.
Hand stitching for me.
I sew it out and then turn around and sew her back. The 2 needle thing is to much trouble in my opinion. For puching the holes I have a 8 inch Craftsman drill press set up with a cross machine vise. In the vise I have a piece of I beam that I cut and polished the bottom of it off (so I have a T shaped piece of metal). the bottom of the T is cranked down tight and level in the vise with the flat top looking up. I covered the top of it with 9 oz. leather, milled a bit that is just a little over sized for my needle I'm sewing with. I use my overstitch wheel to lay out the holes, fire up the drill press at it's lowest setting so it turns slow and punch away.
My 2 cent's worth....
Reverend Bob
Howdy,
I have built a couple stitching horses for folks over the years. They all were four legged benches with a platform shaped like those flat wooden spoons that used to come with ice cream, and a lever that you worked with your foot to open and clamp them shut. I saw a fellow at one of the shoots who had the actual clamps leaning over a little to one side, instead of straight up and down like I used to build them. I believe his idea was an improvement if you're right handed, or totally left handed. Myself, I always like to be able to switch back and forth as I tire from working from one side or the other. I've never seen the little table top models like were in the links above, just the bench type. My first one was a copy of an existing one, where the shop wanted a second one just like it. The others were just based on what I remembered of the first one, and what material I had to build from.
When I was making knife sheaths, I used to mark the stitch holes then drill them on a small table top drill press with the smallest bit that would fit in the chuck. I then stitched using 2 needles but I'm not sure what the stitch was called.
Quote from: Coyote Tim on February 16, 2006, 10:03:03 PMWhen I was making knife sheaths, I used to mark the stitch holes then drill them on a small table top drill press with the smallest bit that would fit in the chuck. I then stitched using 2 needles but I'm not sure what the stitch was called.
I've used a dremel with a small drill chucked into it for drilling holes through places where a bunch of layers of leather make it too thick to comfortably punch. My new dremel has a little chuck that might take a teensey bit from my torch tip cleaning set of drills, some of those are like thin piano wire. I'll try that next time I need to drill stitch holes. Actually, I may do it for my next project just to try it out.
Howdy, Pards,
For most of my work I use a lockstitch, as I can pull it snugger. Depending on the job, I may use a sewing machine, especially for flat work (stitching belt loops to holsters, cartridge loops, etc.). However, for the main seams of holsters, and a lot of other stuff, I use one of two types of "needles". For most heavy work, where I can get at the back side, I use a Landis machine hook (a "needle" with one side of the eye open...they are made that way). You push the needle through the leather, either through a pre-punched/drilled hole or you CAN push the point through the leather itself. After pushing the machine hook through both pieces of leather, you loop the thread over the "hook" and pull the thread partially back through the leather, forming a loop. You unhook the "needle" from the thread. You then stick the free end of the "near-side" thread through the loop, and pull both ends tight, making sure the threads are evenly set in the middle of the two layers. Makes the stitching look like machine stitching.
For main seams on holsters, I punch the holes in each part separately. I may punch the holes using my sewing machine with the thread removed from the needle, or pre-drill the holes with a #56 drill bit after marking the leather with an overstitch wheel in a hand tool.
Sometimes, where I'm working in close quarters, I'll use a regular needle in a hand haft (Speedy Stitcher).
For light jobs I use #207 nylon thread. For sewing belt loops to holsters, etc., #277. These are the equivalent of military 3-cord and 4-cord respectively. For hand-sewing the welts on holsters, I use polyester "Coarse" thread from Stewart Manufacturing. That's similar to 4-cord.
Hope this is of interest.
I use two needles and depending on what I am working on, either a awl, single hole punch, or a row punch (I have one with 5 and one with 3 prongs)... I keep a block of bees wax handy and stick the needles in it after every few holes...kinda helps them slide a bit better... I also use thimbles and sometimes a pair of needle nose pliers to help push the needles through...
I use a pair of duckbill pliers to pull the needles through when they get stuck, which is often if I make small holes with my awl. I'll try sticking them in the beeswax. Good idea. Thanks for the tip.
I use thde 1/16 drill bit and two needles for thick lether 6 oz and up for 4oz and thinner I use that nice hole punch Tandy came out with a few years ago. The one that they show for use on dear and elk hides and it works great on the thinner stuff. The drill works great on the 5/6oz and up.By the time you die the leather, and oil it after the dye dries the woles close up. Matter fact I got a project on the table that I need to lay out the holes on and sew up. Guess I will do it in the AM.
I have used a hand stitch to a limited extent. I concur with every other comment made hear. I too am new to leather work.
I have always used the needles I could get from Tandy Leather for hand stitching. Have any of you had the problem I am having with those needles now? The last three packages the needles don't hold up, I use the heavy waxed thread and never before did I have this trouble but lately the needles are snapping at the eye. Just to make one knife sheath took 8 needles.
Until recently I considered the craft tool line to be suitable for hobby work but my opinion has changed drastically downward lately. As to the large eye economy hooks that come with the little leathercraft kits, yes their quality has deteriated drastically. If you will move up to harness needles you should find a great deal of improvement. If your first needle will not pass through the punched hole with relative ease or you are really strugling and fighting to get either needle through with a pair of pliers, you proble need a larger awl hole. Use of pliers in stitching is fairly common but having to really struggle with them is not and it ruins the needles.
As I recall, the Tandy needles are fairly large. I use C. S. Osborne #517 harness needles, size 4. If I need a slightly larger needle, I use size 3's. The tandy needles are easier to thread, but if you use good thread and taper the end properly before waxing it, you can thread the needle fairly easily. In fact, you can get thread that is larger than the eye through if you do it right. Here's a link to them:
http://www.csosborne.com/no517.htm (http://www.csosborne.com/no517.htm)
I use a Vergez Blanchard VB3.904 Straight Blade Stitching Awl, size 38. The tip is too blunt, but a little time on a stone will put a great taper on the awl. It will make the appropriate sized hole for the #3 needle. The awl is the 7th one down the page.
http://www.siegelofca.com/view_cat_product.asp?id=8&curpage=2 (http://www.siegelofca.com/view_cat_product.asp?id=8&curpage=2)
12/3/2013 - I went to Siegel's but couldn't find this awl. Here's a link to a Vergez-Blanchard diamond-shaped awl.
http://www.fineleatherworking.com/blanchard-leather-sewing-awl (http://www.fineleatherworking.com/blanchard-leather-sewing-awl)
Thanks for the information and links, I am not doing as much leatherwork as I use to about 10 years ago and getting back into to it a little I have found that the quailty of tools from Tandy has greatly diminished and I really appreciate your input.
Thanks again, Pards.
Lots of good tips here, but I do not belief that anoyone mentioned the flat owl? The flat owl is better for making holes!
The round owl is for enlarging already stitched holes so you do not cut the linnen tread.
The flat owl is easy to use, just remember to stick the holes 2 o clock!
I too have had problems with the needles.
The Osborne needles are top quality. I've also noticed a severe drop in quality of Tandy tools over the years. Cutting edges aren't tempered properly, snips and punches don't line up right and decorative stamps are almost unrecognizable compared to what they used to be.
Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on July 09, 2006, 05:46:43 PM
The Osborne needles are top quality. I've also noticed a severe drop in quality of Tandy tools over the years. Cutting edges aren't tempered properly, snips and punches don't line up right and decorative stamps are almost unregocnizable compared to what they used to be.
And I am not impressed with Tandy's conchos. I'd rather buy from Buffalo Brothers or some of the other online outfits mentioned in the leather shop.
I made my holsters double thickness out of pretty heavy leather and they wound up being about 1/4" thick. I knowed really quick the arth in my hands wern't going to let me use an awl. And I was going to use the 2 needle saddle stitch with waxed thread so I had to do some figgerin and come up with my electric drill with a drill bit that was pretty small. I drilled the hole smal enough for a threaded needle to pass and barely big enough for the other needle to pass through with a thread already in the hole. It still took awhile to sew by hand but, when I got finished it looked pretty good, even if I do say so myself. This picture shows bout as close a pic as I have. You can tell a little about it maybe.
Texas Toby :P
Your stitching looks fine. It's good that you found a way to make the holes that works well for you. There have been times when I've drilled the holes instead of punching them with an awl, like through some very thick stuff that an awl isn't long enough to go through. What I've found works good for that is a Dremel with really fine drills. I got a set of torch re-sizing drills that range from about 1/16" down to the diameter of frog's hair. Depending on the size thread and the needles I'm using, I can find something that'll work right. I learned that trick from the old saddlemaker I worked for. You figured it out on your own. Cool.
There's more than one way ta skin a cat and it looks like ya found another'n, Toby.
Looks good. Thanks for the pictures of your holsters too.
Horse Pen
I use an awl and hand stitch. I am using Tandy needles and have been using the same 4 for 5 years now and never broke one. Musta been good quality when I bought them, still have 8 more in the package. Marshal, waxing the needles and/or awl REALLY helps, especially in 10 oz leather like I usually use. I have 3 awls that I like, filed them till they were all the same. Wasn't easy but it was worth it. Nothing worse than a recalcitrant awl.
Good ideas all!
I use an osbourne 4 prong 3/32" diamond shaped saddle stitch punch for long runs after gouging out the stitch line. Around corners I first mark with a #6 overstitch wheel, which comes out to 3/32" spacing or so, and use a single prong diamond saddle stitch punch. Sometimes I use an osbourne peg awl hasp with a 2" diamond shaped stitching awl blade, depending on what I'm working on. Then I use 2 needles and stitch it together. I also have noticed the deterioration of needles from Tandy, so I no longer buy them from there, or much of anything else toolwise. I also often use rubber cement to hold the parts together.
But the best tool I use for stitching anything is a gunsmiths' PanaVise in the largest size from Brownells. I had it in the shop mounted on an iron pipe and bolted to the floor to hold a checkering cradle for gunstocks, but since my doctor won't let me do woodworking anymore because of lung disease, I use it as a stitching pony. I padded the jaws and it's adjustable for any angle and I can move it around with the piece still in it. AND, it sits just the right height so I can sit in my office chair comfortably and sew for hours, if need be! :)
Hey Kid, do you possibly have a picture of that vice set up you could share?
Howdy JD :D
I hand sew, using the saddle stitch, and if the leather is too thick for me to push my needle through , I'll use a 1/6" drill in my Dremel Tool to make my holes, before sewing I use my stitch grover to mark the distance from the edge of my leather and also make a nice grove in the leather,( I do this on dampened leather ) then I use my stitching marker to mark the type of stitch I'm going to use, ( which is usually the # 6 wheel on holsters and gun belts and also on dampened leather ) Then THANKS to my FRIEND ACE LUNGER, for making me this stitching mule, I can now sit in my chair and sew comfortably, the mule holds my holsters and gun belts tight and secure with no movement at all,and is at the right height for this 6'4" cowboy, which has really speeded up my sewing time and is easier on the bode. When using your sewing awl make sure it is polished and smooth, if it is not it won't push through the leather very easy, and sticking it in some bees wax also this will help you push the needles through too. I use waxed linen thread on everything I make, the saddle stitch is the strongest stitch there is , and as long as my hands hold out this will be the stitch I'll use, My Friend CowboyWC has been my Mentor since I begun doing leather work and really helped me get started out right , and I've also learned a ton from the Leather Workers on this forum, it is a great source of information, and a Great bunch of Pards ta boot. I hope this was some help to you JD, and I hope you will enjoy working in leather as much as I have.
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
Here is the link to the Stitching Mule.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,20864.0.html
:'( Sadly, JD, my stupid camera phone is broken and it's the only digital camera I have at the moment, which is one reason I haven't posted any pics lately. I have asked for a good one for Christmas though, so as soon as I either get a camera or my phone fixed I'll put a picture of it up so you can see it. But it's pretty simple, Just get a piece of iron pipe however long you need it, mines about 3 feet, at the plumbing store with 2 flanges and bolt the vise to one flange and the other to the floor or a piece of wood big enough to hold it up. I pad the jaws with a 9 oz piece of scrap leather with a piece of sheepskin glued to it and cut the wool pretty short. It holds the piece you're working on firm, but doesn't mark it up. :)
Here's a pic of the pana-vise base from brownells. You get the vise head separately. It'll rotate 360 degrees and tilt 180. Both pieces run about $75.00
I hand-stitch with one needle, usually - through all the holes once, then back again to where I started. I use a small-tined, 4-prong chisel to punch the holes on long, straight seams and a single-prong chisel on sharper curves and corners. I normally use a groover so my stitches are flush with the surface of the leather.
PM sent
ok guys i was just lookin threw my tandy catalog and am lookin at thread what is the best for hand stitching????
Howdy
I use the wax cotton / linnen on all my light work. For heavy stuff I use Weavers nylon.
WC
IMO forget Tandy......
Linen Thread - 5 cord left or right hand twist is a good all purpose thread:
Campbell- Bosworth: http://campbell-bosworth.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=linen - I have not used the less expensive Hungarian thread myself but reports that I have received from others who have state that it just fine and costs half as much as the Barbour's.
Thank you Chuck and WC you guys have been way helpfull and im loving the work you guys do it inspires me to get trying different things even tho i dont know what im doing LOL
Cowboy316
Thanks for that info Chuck. Can you address the right-left twist issue, and why you would prefer one over the other? (Or someone else who might know)
Hey WC, what would you conisder light verses heavy in leatherwork?
Thanks to both of you busy pros, JD.
Thanks for the link, Chuck. I ordered some of the Hungarian thread to see what it's like. I'll report back when I get it.
Hey WC, what would you conisder light verses heavy in leatherwork?
Thanks to both of you busy pros, JD.
[/quote]
Howdy
Wallets, checkbooks, notebooks, etc all get light thread. Holsters, sheaths, saddles and tack get the heavy.
WC
JD - left hand and right hand are only appliable if the thread is bing used in a machine, for hand sewing either one. FWIW - I use 5 cord for my holsters and 3 cord for sewing the lining on belts, etc.
Will - I look forward to your opinion as I'm starting to get low on thread......
Chuck, WC, thanks to both of you!
Quote from: ChuckBurrows on February 01, 2009, 04:24:02 PMI'm starting to get low on thread......
Exactly why I ordered some. Your post was very timely. I was wondering where to get some good thread since I'm down to just a few projects on the spool I have.
Anyone use an awl manufactured by other than Osborne or Tandy?
I use a Vergez Blanchard in addition to the Osborn and Tandy ones I have.
Howdy
I use an Osborne blade but I put it into an old Speedy Stitcher Haft. It is bigger and fits my hand better.
WC
Okay, 'cause when the Osborne fixed blade snaps on you, you basically have to pitch the whole mess. Like the replacement blade idea.
Don't forget to run the thread thru some wax before you use it. I actually use the wax/pine pitch mixture that Chuck suggested on a thread some time ago.
Mixing it was an adventure but it works like a champ and keeps the threads locked and looking great...this is a quote from a post of his that describes the method.
For "waxing" I use a variation of the shoemakers "hand" wax - a mix of beeswax and rosin - I melt the two together in a 60/40 ratio of wax to rosin - to melt use an old crockpot or other flame less source for safety sake. Once combined I pour off, into used yogurt containers (about a 1/3 full) and let cool - once cool cut away the container and you have a perfectly sized "ball" to work with. Other makers I know who use a similar mix, pour it into a pot of cold water and work it into a ball as it cools. The rosin I use is "Brewers Pitch" from James Townsend and Sons http://www.jastown.com/bulk/bp-293.htm
The rosin not only makes the wax stickier so that the stitches lock tighter, but it along with the wax, add anti-bacterial/fungal benefits.
I poured it in cupcake tin with aluminium cupcake liners...I had to put them in hot water to seperate the "lumps" from the liners but now I have 12 balls that should last me years...
I poured it in cupcake tin with aluminium cupcake liners...I had to put them in hot water to seperate the "lumps" from the liners but now I have 12 balls that should last me years...
[/quote]
Howdy
To save money on the liners. Just pour into the cupcake tin and put the whole thing in the freezer.
When they are hard they will just fall out of the tin.
WC
That's good info. Thanks.
Howdy, Pards,
I use Stewart's No. 150 Waxed Polyester thread (Coarse) for hand stitching (with a Speedy Stitcher*) the main seams of holsters and for sewing on buckle and tongue billets, etc. on belts. For other things, such as cartridge loops on belts I use #207 Nylon thread on my Juki TSC 441 machine (basic machine Ferdco Super Bull), and #277 Nylon thread for sewing on holster belt loops, etc. This stuff is unwaxed, but I run the thread wound on the bobbins through a cold wax bath as it is being wound on the bobbin.
*Note: For lighter stuff, I might use Stewart's #170 Fine Waxed Polyester thread in the Speedy Stitcher. With the #150, I use a Landis machine hook needle (the eye in the point has the one side open), in a Speedy Stitcher handle. With the Landis hook, I pre-drill the holes or punch them on the Juki with a needle and no thread, then push the hook through the holes, grab a loop, pull it back through the holes and push the other end of the thread through the loop thus formed. You could also do "double needle" stitching with the hook...if you are careful not to catch the first thread through the hole.
Marshall Will can you add this to the Faq/how to thread for later reference?
Good idea, TC. I merged this thread with our existing one to create this new thread called, "Hand Stitching Leather". Now all the stitching information will be all in one place. The existing thread was already in out FAQ thread.
Thanks Will!
Quotethe pitch blend gives the thread and leather all the protection it needs, I usually use natural linen thread.
TW - with respect IMO no you're not - in fact you may be causing problems with your thread down the road.....
Two major reasons for waxing thread (whether with plain bees wax or hand/hardwax - beeswax mixed with pitch) is two fold:
1) To lock the thread fibers together which strengthens them. In the old days we used to make up our own threads from single cord (The Art of Handsewing Leather explains how and I still do sometimes) into what ever "cord" we needed i.e 3 cord, 5 cord, etc. - in the "raw" state it was pretty easy to break, but even the single ply once waxed gained considerable strength once the fibers were locked together.
2) To prevent absorbtion of liquids - water and oil mainly. By dipping in MT Pitchblend (BTW one of my favorite top coats) you are in fact adding oil to your thread. While the oil doesn't actually rot the thread in my experience, it can and will weaken it over time.
FWIW - my statement here and most others I make are based on not only building leather for 40+ years, but repairing it as well and observing firsthand what does and does not cause damage. IMO repairing leather is one of the best ways to learn.... Again I'm no expert just an experienced student of the craft trying to help folks from making the same mistakes I made or observed.....
Quote from: ChuckBurrows on February 07, 2009, 03:16:49 AM
TW - with respect IMO no you're not - in fact you may be causing problems with your thread down the road.....
Two major reasons for waxing thread (whether with plain bees wax or hand/hardwax - beeswax mixed with pitch) is two fold:
1) To lock the thread fibers together which strengthens them. In the old days we used to make up our own threads from single cord (The Art of Handsewing Leather explains how and I still do sometimes) into what ever "cord" we needed i.e 3 cord, 5 cord, etc. - in the "raw" state it was pretty easy to break, but even the single ply once waxed gained considerable strength once the fibers were locked together.
2) To prevent absorbtion of liquids - water and oil mainly. By dipping in MT Pitchblend (BTW one of my favorite top coats) you are in fact adding oil to your thread. While the oil doesn't actually rot the thread in my experience, it can and will weaken it over time.
FWIW - my statement here and most others I make are based on not only building leather for 40+ years, but repairing it as well and observing firsthand what does and does not cause damage. IMO repairing leather is one of the best ways to learn.... Again I'm no expert just an experienced student of the craft trying to help folks from making the same mistakes I made or observed.....
[/quote
Hello Chuck
Will that's what I like about this leather craft, you learn something new all the time, so if I understand this right, it's safe to use the Montana Pine Pitch Blend as an over coat only, and just stay with using the wax linen thread by its self, and you can dip your needle in bees wax only as an aid for pushing the needle through, is this right ? I've never used anything but waxed linen thread, and have felt comfortable using it because the thread was protected by the bees was, I thought in my mind that the bees waxed linen thread had all the protection it needed, by dipping my needle in the MPB, it would just add a little more protection, I would understand why unwaxed thread would need to be handled differently, boy there is so much to learn, I think that's just another thing that twiks my interest in this craft, it never gets boring. Thanks for this information Chuck, I'm going to remove my resent post on the Montana Pitch Blend, I don't like giving out the wrong information. ??? :-X I appreciate you stepping in here on this subject, this is what I love about this forum, every one is here to help.
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
QuoteHello Chuck
Will that's what I like about this leather craft, you learn something new all the time, so if I understand this right, it's safe to use the Montana Pine Pitch Blend as an over coat only, and just stay with using the wax linen thread by its self, and you can dip your needle in bees wax only as an aid for pushing the needle through, is this right ? I've never used anything but waxed linen thread, and have felt comfortable using it because the thread was protected by the bees was, I thought in my mind that the bees waxed linen thread had all the protection it needed, by dipping my needle in the MPB, it would just add a little more protection, I would understand why unwaxed thread would need to be handled differently, boy there is so much to learn, I think that's just another thing that twiks my interest in this craft, it never gets boring. Thanks for this information Chuck, I'm going to remove my resent post on the Montana Pitch Blend, I don't like giving out the wrong information. I appreciate you stepping in here on this subject, this is what I love about this forum, every one is here to help.
TW - I sort of jumped the gun too - since you're using pre-waxed linen thread then there should be no problem with dipping your needle in MTB. It sounded like (and I shouldn't have assumed) that you were using unwaxed thread and were using the MTB in place of waxing your thread. The mix noted above is for using with unwaxed linen so when you made you're comment I didn't think about pre-waxed.
That's what I get for working real late and then offering "advice"!
FWIW - I keep a ball of plain beeswax at hand for lubing my awl and needle
of course now that you removed your post everybody is going to be going HUH? ??? ??? ??? that's OK it will keep them on their toes eh!
;D
If there is a more helpful, yet always respectful forum on any subject on any website, I've yet to see it or hear about it. You guys are the best, period. I love the "No Ego" part of this forum. And while I'm at it, if anyone had a good reason for an Ego, it would be Chuck, or WC, or Will, the list goes on.
People from other forums of all sorts could take lessons here. JD
The thread I ordered came yesterday. As a reminder, I ordered the Hungarian 100% linen 5 cord left twist natural. It looks to be good quality thread although I haven't tried sewing anything with it yet. It has the feel of the thread I used when I first started. For those who have been using waxed thread, this is not and will need to be waxed. I have a holster in progress and will get to try it then.
Marshal I have always used waxed thread so my question is how do you wax thread? My guess would be to run it across bees wax or is it more complicated than that?
Quote from: Wiley Desperado on February 07, 2009, 12:00:52 PM
Marshal I have always used waxed thread so my question is how do you wax thread? My guess would be to run it across bees wax or is it more complicated than that?
Not the Marshall - but yep! although I prefer the prep of bbeswax and pitch noted above........
Quote from: ChuckBurrows on February 07, 2009, 05:12:25 AM
TW - I sort of jumped the gun too - since you're using pre-waxed linen thread then there should be no problem with dipping your needle in MTB. It sounded like (and I shouldn't have assumed) that you were using unwaxed thread and were using the MTB in place of waxing your thread. The mix noted above is for using with unwaxed linen so when you made you're comment I didn't think about pre-waxed.
That's what I get for working real late and then offering "advice"!
FWIW - I keep a ball of plain beeswax at hand for lubing my awl and needle
of course now that you removed your post everybody is going to be going HUH? ??? ??? ??? that's OK it will keep them on their toes eh!
;D
Howdy Chuck :D ;D
Thanks for your reply, I feel much better knowing I didn't screw up.
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
Thanks for the reply, there, Chuck. I learned to wax with pure beeswax. Never had any better mixtures but I see I'll have to try it now. The way I learned was to pull the thread across the wax at least 4 or 5 times until the appropriate amount of wax is on the thread. This is done in the direction it will be sewn. In other words, pulling toward the middle from both ends. That prevents the thread from fuzzing when you sew and helps it to pull through the leather easier. Maybe this new stuff won't matter which way it gets done but that's what I do anyway.
Ok, now I know how to wax thread thanks all for the help. One more question if you don't mind, why is linen thread better than...lets say nylon ?
Howdy Wylie,
I suspect that Menea and Frazier didn't use nylon thread. That's why I don't care to use it.
Another suspicion of mine is that nylon is a synthetic and flax is as natural as leather. Nylon may cut through the leather in time whereas flax more than likely will not.
Cheers,
Horse Pen
Thanks HorsePen Henry I have been wordering about this. . I thought nylon would wear better but I didn't consider the historical aspects or that nylon might wear through the leather. I appreciate your comments pard.
I find that the nylon thread won't pull tight and stay there as easily as natural material.
Howdy, Marshal Will
As a newbie, I gotta say that just this one thread has answered a bunch of questions I had.
Welcome, Skeeter. Glad to hear it's helpful. That's the whole idea to The Leather Shop and it's nice to know we're successful. Welcome to the forum. Be sure to look at all the threads linked in our FAQ thread: FAQ/HOW-TO/SUPPLIERS/IDEAS (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,13207.0.html). Looking forward to your posts. :D
I'm gonna go out on a limb and also say that it's because the linen thread has more of a "tooth" to its weave than nylon, similar to how some art papers have a rougher feel (called a "tooth"). It has more of a capability of securely holding onto the surface of the leather.
Hi all. I've made myself a stitching pony using Chuck's website advice. It's great - but stitching the pipe section of the holster is tough. There doesn't seem to be a good angle at which to clamp the holster. Maybe it'll come with experience.
Quote from: Skeeter Lewis on July 22, 2009, 04:40:16 PM
Hi all. I've made myself a stitching pony using Chuck's website advice. It's great - but stitching the pipe section of the holster is tough. There doesn't seem to be a good angle at which to clamp the holster. Maybe it'll come with experience.
Skeet, stick a piece of dowel or wood that will fit in the bucket, your pony needs something to grab hold of, this is what I do and it works fine.
Regards
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
FWIW - I generally sew most of the the pipe before adding the toe plug - the rest I just sew up without the pony after inserting the plug. In the old days that was called "lap work" because you held the piece between your knees/thighs while stitching. Since I prepunch my holes (due to arthritis in my hands I can't do the traditional hold two needles and the awl at one time method anymore) and also generally glue my pieces together (except for museum quality repros) I in fact seldom use my pony anymore, but still recommend a pony for most work when you don't have my "problems"............
Thanks 10W and Chuck. That'll solve it for me. Skeet
I don't use a pony when I sew. I pre-punch my leather like Chuck mentioned. Works much better for me. Simple enough to set a marker hole even on both sides, and then run a wheel down and punch the holes. If I'm off at all, it's in the initial cut, and easily sanded out and buffed down.
Howdy all
I'd like to say one thing about the pony or mule like Ace calls it, Ace made me one a few years ago, it's of the same design of the one Chuck Burrows uses, Ace made this mule to my spec's and it is perfect for me and my height, being 6'4" has always been a problem when it came to things like this, but now I can sew using two needles and both hands, sitting in a comfortable chair and having my work right in front of me in a user friendly position and enjoy sewing, even though my left hand is messed up, it took me a little time to get used to the mule, but for me this is the best thing that has happened to me in a long time, it has cut my sewing time down at least 50%, and my back and neck aren't soar and hurting when I'm finished, like I said being tall can have its disadvantages, but thanks to this mule Ace made me, it has leveled the playing field so to speak, I also fine that prepunching my holes works best for me too, using a piece of dowel or piece of wood that fits in the bucket of the holster gives my mule something to grab on to, so that I don't have to flatten the holster out in order to do my sewing, even though there is a wide opening beneath the jaws it is some times not enough to be able to grab your work , so the dowel or wood helps greatly with this.
Regards
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
Marshal Will, what's the website for the Hungarian linen thread? Barbour's is expensive and (I think) the company has ceased to exist.
Maybe you've posted it somewhere and I've missed it.
Quote from: Skeeter Lewis on August 11, 2009, 04:00:06 AM
Marshal Will, what's the website for the Hungarian linen thread? Barbour's is expensive and (I think) the company has ceased to exist.
Maybe you've posted it somewhere and I've missed it.
Howdy Skeeter
I just got some Barbour's 5 strand linen thread from these people, Cambell Bosworth http://www.campbell-bosworth.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/6_71_73 check out this link and I'm sure you will find something to suit you
I also got some Pine Pitch and Bees Wax from Jas Townsend at http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?products_id=373
Chuck Burrows and Will Ghromely posted this information, Thanks Pards for keeping us informed
Hope this helps Skeeter
Regards
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
Quote from: santee on February 02, 2009, 07:47:16 AM
Anyone use an awl manufactured by other than Osborne or Tandy?
Dixon, an English maker (same firm has been making leather tools for about 200 years or so - they also made cartridge reloading tools in the 19th century)
Thanks, 10 W. Skeet
I see you got the information you need, Skeeter. I bought my thread from Campbell-Bosworth as TW posted in the first link. I haven't tried it yet because I need to finish my other thread, but it's sitting on the bench waiting to be used.
Thanks, guys. I hadn't realised the Hungarian thread came from Campbell Bosworth too. Skeet
Howdy saddler,
The same Dixon that made so many powder flasks??
Quote from: Dr. Bob on August 12, 2009, 10:19:14 PM
Howdy saddler,
The same Dixon that made so many powder flasks??
Yes, the same...though I haven't approached them directly to confirm, they are in the same town as the powder flask Dixon
Most other British companies of the period have gone now - a few Sheffield knifemakers are still trading (some from the same premises as in the 1800's)
Put it in perspective - one of the tanneries I get my leather from has been in the
same street since about 1850: one of
their suppliers started business in 1600
I can easily check if its the same people, but the old cartridge tools I have seem to bear the same maker trademark in the same type-face, etc.
Jon
Howdy All
I just recently decided to try the thread that Chuck Burrows likes to use, the Barbours Linen, 5 cord left twist in natural white and the Bees Wax & Pine Pitch rendered and blended together as a wax for my thread, I followed Little Al's instructional information on the best way to make the bees wax and pine pitch blend, and it worked out great, Thanks Little Al, I have to say this is the finest thread I've used yet, and I can see why Chuck Burrows likes it so well, I also used Marshal Will's suggestion of dragging the wax down from the both needles to the center, I gave each side about 6 strokes each, that made since to me, and the thread seemed to pass through the leather much more smoothly, this wax and pine pitch is nice to work with, and like what was said it smells good too, I like the look of this thread too, it presents its self real well after being stitched. And a special thanks to CowboyWC, for turning me on to the Stitching Chisel.
So thanks Chuck,Little Al, Marshal Will and CowboyWC for this good information
Best Regards
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
That's cool, TW. I haven't tried the blend yet. I'll have to get going with that. I guess I'll need to order some pitch to use for that.
I'm wondering with so manmy people blending wax and pitch, does someone has some they'd be willing to sell to a pard who doesn'tr sew a lot? Also, I wonder what stitching chisel 10 Wolves is talking about? I've got all the chisels Tandy sells, so is it something besides those?
Inquiring minds want to know! Thanks guys, JD
I've gone over to Barbour's thread - and there's no going back to the Tandy thread. It is just so much better. At the moment I'm using straight beeswax but I'd like to try Chuck's pitch pine idea. Is it half-and-half pine tar and beeswax?
I know there is advice on this subject - if someone can point me there. Skeet
Quote from: Skeeter Lewis on September 11, 2009, 02:11:18 PM
I've gone over to Barbour's thread - and there's no going back to the Tandy thread. It is just so much better. At the moment I'm using straight beeswax but I'd like to try Chuck's pitch pine idea. Is it half-and-half pine tar and beeswax?
I know there is advice on this subject - if someone can point me there. Skeet
Howdy Skeet
Looks like we're both sold on the Barbours thread, for the Bees Wax and Pine pitch blend I used 2/3 bees wax and 1/3 pine pitch, just heat it up until it gets syrupy ( I used an old Crock Pot, which is safer, if you have to do this on an open flame cooker , do it outside, the pitch is very flamable, and be real careful ) then pour into and old cup cake tin, don't use your wife's good one, I bought my own just to be safe LOL, you can make as much or as little as you want, I used WC's idea of putting the cup cake tin the freezer after I poured what I wanted in it, then when frozen, just turn it over and tap it out.
Hope this helped, I know you will like the results
Regards
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
i use a dremal
So MHB, are you using a Dremel with a drill bit to punch holes for stitching?
Yes JD it works verry well for me i use what i got if you knoe what i meen
Well MHB, I've been hand stitching for a long long time. About 10 years ago I broke down and bought a Tippman Boss and hated it! Hated the way it worked, hated the way the stitches looked, just everything.
I sold it 2 weeks later and never looked back! ;D
Ned
Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on October 05, 2005, 06:03:41 PM
I also use a double needle stitch on everything. I don't do enough to warrant buying a machine and besides, it's stronger.
Goood thinking Will you have the right way of doing those fine pieces of art.
Never had use for a machine, hand stitching is craftmanship, no comment on the other.
Thick project, I use a drill and small bit, not too tight of a hole as it takes a toll on the needles.
Good work Pards,
M.Slick
The one thing that helped me the most with my stiching is halter needles, much stronger and I haven't broken one yet. I use the small eye type. Used to break 4 or 5 each project with the cheap Tandy needles.
AC
AC, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.
MS
Osborne harness needles seem to be the way to go. Those Tandy needles break mighty quick.
Missouri HB I use a dremel as well whenever I can get way with it!
Thanks JD, I'll do a search on Osborne.
MS
Da Law
I bit the bullet today and bought a box of Barbours Pure Flax Linen thread. I could 't remember the size number everyone suggested, so I went with 4 in the natural color. Now I read some people use 3 for one weight of leather, 5 for another, so hopefully 4 will do it. I got the left twist.
I haven't opened it yet, so if I hear from someone that a different weight or twist would be better, I bought it at Oregon Leather so I can return it. I want to be sure it's strong enough to use on the main seam.
I think I have enough thread to last a lifetime with 1354 yards! Thanks to Little Al, I have some wax blend to use.
Oh Boy!
JD, if the #4 is a 20lb test line it should do great, yer in the middle, kind of a yeng and yang.
Just a sugestion, never look at what I use, I know it's black er brown flax linnin waxed and 20 pounder. :)
Good luck Pard
Cawffee is on, Ima sharin'.
I hope yall dont mind me bumping up these old threads up, I figured I could share some stuff that may benefit another CAS.net member for someone wanting to know how to make the saddle stitch Nigel Armitage has one of the best tutorial videos I know of that explains the procedure in detail.
I would also like to show off my stitching clamp that is IMO
the best one you can make yourself. I think I have a whopping fifteen dollars in the whole thing
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb23/roguetitan/PICT1550.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb23/roguetitan/PICT1549.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb23/roguetitan/PICT1547.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb23/roguetitan/PICT1548-1.jpg)
heres a pic of the first one I made as you can see in the above pics I have made several upgrades to the original
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb23/roguetitan/PICT1542.jpg)
here is a diagram I made of some dimensions of the stitching clamp
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb23/roguetitan/STITCHINGCLAMP_zps39847036.png)
I hand stitch for a few reasons
1) the imperfections look more natural
2) scared of the needle shattering on machines....had it happen on heavy wool...leather oh my god...
3) get to control the stitch spacing
4) too cheap to but a machine
5) don't do that many projects to warrant a machine
I will awl, nail or drill the holes.
Question:
I always see everybody uses thread where I use artificial sinew.
I was told sinew was stronger so why thread? Is it to get different colors or the economy of it?
That's a fine stitching clamp, St8. Well thought out. I like the storage in the base. Thanks for the pics.
Str8line, can you show a little more detail on the strap anchoring and spring. I can see how the strap is anchored to the foot lever. How and where is it anchored on the other side? It apears that the strap runs throuugh the spring, what size spring and did you drill out insets for the spring in the arms of the clapmp? Over all looks like a pretty good design.
Thanks Marshall Will
CR actually there is no spring
if you notice the strap is tucked under the jaws and is screwed to the bottom side of the pivoting jaw.
I can take some detail pics if you need.
DHass
I think it has more to do with preference more than anything else not to mention thread is pre twisted or braided. the benefit of sinew is that it can be split if you need a thin stitch. I use Artificial sinew on some projects, if I need a heavier stitch I use nylon or polyester on other projects.
a good way to make starter holes on thick leather projects is a drill press with a small round awl blade chucked and on slow speed
(I recommend NOT to use a drill bit).
the blade pierces the leather effortlessly and the holes are good and straight. then when you start stitching follow up with your stitching awl with the dimond pattern going at a 45 degree angle, this way when the saddle stitch is pulled tight the hole will close around the thread.
Oh and I cant wait for the day when I can afford a good Cobra Class 4 or a Tech sew machine Ya The saddle stitch is far superior to a lock stitch but the production time is a killer
Great video on saddle stitching. Thanks for posting this.
That is a very nice stitching pony but I found after spending a bunch of time making a fancy pony that simpler is better.
The pony I use now is one I made that is sturdy but simple with a carriage bolt and wing nut through the spring. This way the stitching pony can be moved around and held in different positions with the work piece clamped in it.
When stitching toe plugs and such I reposition the pony under my legs and rotate it 360 degrees as I stitch around the toe plug of a holster.
How do you keep the thread from constantly hanging on the little shelf? That would give me fits.
I have used just about every vairiation of stitching ponys, stitching horses available and this is the absolute best design that I have found for me. i can re-position the clamp by pivoting the base with my feet the shelf is mounted low enough that the thread don't catch or hang up on it otherwise I would have taken it off by now actually the little shelf is handy for keeping my pliers on it for when I need a little extra gripping power to pull a needle through a hole.
My pliers, awl, beeswax can sit in a pocket on the inside of my jaws.
For the last several years, I have used Tandy's 346 white waxed nylon (?) thread, . . . with almost no problems at all.
The one situation I cannot fix is the thread will not take dye permanently, . . . it eventually rubs off, . . . and generally turns some color between white and the product dye color.
I'd like to find the same thread, . . . in brown and in black.
I bought the offering Springfield Leather had to offer, . . . was very much disappointed with their thread (but to my pleasure they offered to take it back, . . . full refund ;D ).
Anyway, . . . it is a heavily waxed thread, . . . wonder if you all know where I can get something equivalent.
May God bless,
Dwight
I learned on flax thread and switched to the waxed nylon for a while. I often looked for brown or black but never was able to locate any. I finally ran out of the nylon and switched back to the natural fiber thread. One advantage is it takes color nicely. Early on, old Charlie taught me to wax the thread from both ends to the middle. That lines up the fibers so it goes through the leather easily without fraying.
Dwight, What did you not like about Springfield's thread ? Thanks, Jerry
Hi
I just left the OKC Tandy Leather and bought both white and brown linen waxed thread. I'm weeks away from actually using it so I don't have an opinion on it yet.
Later
Quote from: onegunred on February 01, 2014, 01:11:31 PM
Dwight, What did you not like about Springfield's thread ? Thanks, Jerry
I ordered dk brown and black, . . . 346, . . . and was given the impression it was a waxed thread.
It may have been trucked somewhere within a mile or two of a beehive, . . . that is the nearest it ever came to being waxed.
For me, . . . it was VERY dry, . . .
Also, the Tandy thread measured .029 or thereabouts, . . . the brown was .022 and the black was .024, . . . and simply did not look as good.
I'm certainly no expert, . . . but I know what I like, . . . and it simply was not likeable for me.
May God bless,
Dwight
Okay, so it was the wax and dia. and not the durability of the thread ? Thanks, Jerry
Dye the thread with the color you will use on the holster and then let it dry good before waxing the thread for sewing. I have yet to see any thread damage due to leather dye.
D 55, I would try the Z threads. That is what Tandy sells in 69 thread. But they also sell the thread you are used to, and that I use in 270, which is a polyester thread.
You can get the z threads from Tippman. Z threads are nylon with a normally hard hand to them, a bit like the poly Tandy sells. And they don't need wax to work properly, however, I haven't used the heavy ones, or know whether they are waxed. Just ask first. That is a 1 pound spool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thread-Size-Z346-Tan/110446270446?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D389%26meid%3D4635100905133157359%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D11%26sd%3D110446270239%26
By the way, they have more sizes and colours on their main site. I prefer to buy off the ebay site. But they have a lot of sizes from 69 on up 400s and for colours white, beige, brown, black.
Thanks, everyone for your help, . . . one wouldn't think just finding a spool of thread would be this exasperating, . . .
So far, every thing else I have tried, . . . to me it does not LOOK right, . . . and the white thread I'm getting from Tandy actually does not like the dye. It will take it, . . . but it would look better if the thread were colored first.
I do that sometimes by dying the thread itself ahead of time, . . . but I just hate to spend that extra effort and time if I could somewhere / somehow find the right thread so I don't have to.
This waxed thread pulls tight and stays tight for my Boss, . . . even if every now and then I have to take 15 minutes and clean the wax off the thread route.
May God bless,
Dwight
http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=waxed-thread
I use Tandy's waxed braided thread but I only hand stich. Comes in several colors like black, brown, beige, white, red and blue. It threads on the needle easy. Looks much better on a finished project for me.
AC
Hey all,
I use Tandy's as well, but lately I have found their quality went down, the thread having unexpected weak spots. So, I am looking about. I am curious, does anyone know what ply of thread Tandy's is? There are variety of plys and thicknesses and sometimes I have wanted thinner thread and ended up trying to unwind the Tandy stuff. I would like to know more about the differences.
Thanks
Zack White Leather has heavy waxed thread in White, Brown and Black.
Quote from: dwight55 on February 06, 2014, 08:06:17 AMThis waxed thread pulls tight and stays tight for my Boss, . . . even if every now and then I have to take 15 minutes and clean the wax off the thread route.
May God bless,
Dwight
Dwight, if you are using the Boss, why aren't you using the Tippman thread that I suggested. That is designed for use in your machine, and comes in useful colours. I ask because I was thinking of getting it the next time around. I like Z thread, and the price for the size, and their shipping up to here is all good for me. But if you are running a Tippman machine, and don't like their thread, that would be important info before I invest.
The only company I know that sells thread heavy enough for our work in fancy colours is Weaver (not that you asked). They now have a retail site, though I am still hoping they list some stuff on ebay.
Also, why are you using 347 thread. Most people seem to use 270. I just mention it because 270 and 205 are a lot more common, and they are more than strong enough. I have some designs where I may have to go to 205 on the bobbin to hide the stitches in thinner material.
Only hand stiching after deep grooving with two needles. Holes made by hand chisel pliers and awls and - if nothing helps - with a drilling machine.
When the sewing is done I lock the last two backstiches with a drop of glue (becomes invisible when dry) and finish it with an oversticher for an even look.
Best regards!
Ray
I use this nylon thread in a brown color for nearly everything, unless I want to use artificial sinew. It's tough, it's pre-waxed and it comes in brown. If it comes off the spool with too much wax, I just run it over my thumbnail to scrape off the excess.
http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/lacing/threads-sinews/1227-038.aspx
I'm going to merge this thread with out hand-stitching thread that's linked to in the FAQ thread. It's good information and that will put it all together.
I use a drill press and a 1/16 bit to do the holes, I made a pony on the concept of the one posted on the first page, use 1x3 pine added a bit to the jaws and some leather so as not to scratch projects, I use a chunk of 4" pvc pipe with a slot as a spring, then hand stitch with 2 needles
http://www.mainethread.com/product10.html
These threads can be twisted to a "bristle", and the whole thing will sew like threading show lace, no struggle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OjahbhHGlY
Do pards know of an off-white linen thread that wouldn't look too new? Trying to get that old-time look.
Barbour's Red Hand Linen comes in a light gray/natural unwaxed linen - Last time I bought some from Campbell-Randall, you might also check Ebay.
For period pieces I use 3 cord (mine is 20/3), and it also comes in 18/3, 25/3, and 30/3 - the higher the first number (the gauge) the thinner the individual cords. I stitch at 8-12 SPI, which is typical for the era we try to emulate.
Chuck, I've been using the Barbours natural thread, but that's pretty much white. I wondered if there was something with more of an aged look, maybe with a touch of tan, the way you see in PI.
Much of the color you see in PI is primarily due to aging. When I want a tan colored thread I dunk the whole roll in thinned down brown dye.
Another option the high quality waxed French linen thread which is offered in various colors.
http://www.fineleatherworking.com/linen-thread not cheap but really nice pre-waxed thread.
Skeeter, When waxing the thread just do it with dirty hands or gloves. Naturally aged linen thread ;D
No joke, I've actually done that when stitching pre dyed leather and don't want the thread real white looking.
Thanks, pards.
Hi
I"m starting on a 3 knife case, I've done a few sheathes, but none this thick. It is suggested in this thread, that I use a drill press to make the holes for sewing. I THINK someone mentioned, not turning on the drill, but just pressing through because you want the leather pushed out of the way, not taken away. I didn't see it though. Is that right or not? I'm really trying hard to get the holes straight for once...
Thanks
Can you chuck up your awl in a drill press and punch the holes with the drive turned off? Every hole would be exactly the same angle that way.
When I worked in the saddle shop, we would sometimes punch holes with a sewing machine that had no thread in it when we wanted a nice even hand stitch through numerous layers.
Sometimes a drill press wants to pick up the entire work piece if you use just and awl or don't turn it on where a stitching machine has a presser foot holding the work down. I use a finish nail and turn it on and let it just punch a starter hole. Then I can push an awl through by hand while sewing.
I actually have done the stitching machine trick but it's easy to tell if the hole was made with a regular harness awl or machine awl or needle so I figure I just as well let the machine do the rest of it.
The nail in a drill press doesnt alter the look of a hand stitch if you chase the holes with an awl while stitching. It just makes it much easier on old tired hands.
Hi
Thanks, both of you. I'll try both the awl and I'll get a few finish nails to try also.
Later
I have not read through all of these 6 pages, so I don't know if I am covering old material.
When I build a holster, I use 8-9 oz. leather. This runs about 1/8 inch thick, so when sticking two pieces of 8-9 oz. leather together, they are about 1/4 inch thick.
I like to use a 5 or 6 threads per inch indicator to mark out my stich seam to run my awl through the leather for this weight leather.
The hand awl does very nice to create the holes all by itself.
Hole punches and/or drills remove leather from the area of the stich. An awl just spreads the leather leaving maximum amount of leather and strength around each stich.
My best,
Blair
Blair, that's why I just poke a hole with a tiny finish nail and then the awl follows that hole very nicely and you are not removing any leather. It comes out the exact same as using just the awl except it saves my hands.
When faced with a particularly hard piece of leather, I stick an old broken needle or ask blade in my drill press and use it to punch my holes. I don't turn it on, I just use the downward force of the press. It will make mincemeat out of the toughest leather.
When it comes to leather that's too thick to get my needle through, I use a stiching chisel, and mallet, I wax my tine blades with bees wax before driving the tines through the leather, if the leather is too thick for my chisel I will use my dremel and drill my holes using a 1/16 "drill bit, I do this after marking my holes with a stich marker, you can also do as others have mentioned by using a drill press and using an old needle to make your holes, hope this helps...
tEN wOLVES ;D
This is the best explanation I've found of how to do a basic saddle stitch. His other videos deal with various aspects of leather work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ue3zBg0bdA
Thanks, Skeeter. That was a very good video. He did two things automatically that he didn't mention. I feel they should be pointed out.
First, always push the awl through exactly the same for each hole. That means angle, depth and slant of the tip. That will allow each stitch to lay exactly the same. If the holes are different, it's impossible to make the stitches look the same.
Second, always put the first needle through from the same side of the project. That makes all your stitches the same. I always work from the front of the project but even if you did it from the back, as long as everything is done the same, your stitch line will be nice and even looking.
My stitching usually looks ok in the front, but like drunken sailors in the back. All out of line, dirty, and sometimes covered in blood. This is particularly true with white thread. I gave up trying to use an awl, except as a last resort for hard to reach holes. The rest of the time, I use stitching chisels.
There are a couple things you can experiment with that might help you when punching holes with an awl.
Try backing your awl with a cork, small rubber ball or something similar when you punch the holes. That saves your fingers and allows you to make holes all the same because the leather won't flex from the force of the awl.
Also, every couple holes, poke your beeswax with the awl so it goes through the leather without dragging. Just don't get a lot of wax on the tip. A slight amount will do fine.
I'd like to try using poloyester thread - after years of using linen - but I have a question about the thickness of the thread.
The Tiger thread on sale in the UK comes in .6mm, .8mm and Imm. How do they equate to 3, 4, and 5 cord linen thread?
:) Hey Skeeter ;)
CAVIAT; I'm not a leather worker. Best I could ever do with needle and thread was to replace buttons on my BDU/Fatigues. However, were it I, I'd be sending the folks in the UK an eMail and ask 'em.
I never tried it myself. It will be interesting to hear what you find out.
Take a look at this old thread I found. If nothing else you can use your calipers to measure your thread to get a comparison.
https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/55977-linen-thread-sizes-in-mm/