Good afternoon gents,
First time poster, long time lurker. After scouring a solid 11 pages of the Frontier Iron section, I feel the need to ask a few questions that relate to the current state of the replica Schofields, namely all the different distributors of the Uberti models.
First off, I'm a US Army veteran (3rd Infantry Regiment 2007-2011) that's just gotten into the wonderful world of "The Old West" thanks to my fiance, who recently received from me a Pietta 1858 and Taylor Firearms conversion cylinder for Christmas (she was a huge fan of Pale Rider, so my mind was instantly made up on her gift). Both of us wish to pursue a life long hobby of Cowboy Action Shooting, and are looking into various groups/societies to get into all while building historically accurate clothing/rigs to participate. I have been WWII Re-enacting since I was 14 (25 now), and place a great emphasis on nailing every detail in terms of historical accuracy in my impressions.
However...I'm currently in a pickle in terms of what I should genuinely go with in my path to obtaining a quality, historically accurate replica of the Schofield Model 3. From what I've gathered, Cimarron currently is regarded as the top contender in terms of finish and factory standards. Catch is...their representatives are stating an almost 8 month backorder, while NUMEROUS online gun shops that I'm contacting are saying "About 1-3 months for a restock". Okay.....
I guess my biggest question is: Am I going to be just as okay with a Taylor & Co. Firearms Schofield (estimated restock in about 2 months), or any Uberti marked one for that matter if I happen across one at a gun show (Nation's Gun Expo in Chantilly, VA is coming in a few weeks)? Or should I REALLY strive for that Cimarron? My goal is to pick up two for some cavalry twist shooting (you can thank Charlie Prince from "3:10 to Yuma" for this).
I apologize for this essay of a post, and I realize people have asked about Cimarron before, but this is a pretty sizable investment and the QC for these guns is apparently ALWAYS changing from year to year. In addition...it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get an actual hands-on with different distributors' Schofield (240p youtube videos don't really cut it).
Thanks to anyone that can give some input on this.
If you are contemplating getting into cowboy action shooting...
First! Go find local matches and watch and learn and talk to the shooters and ask them about thier guns
There are two cowboy shooting paths
SASS and NCOWS
SASS does not require you to be historically correct
NCOWS strives for more authenticity
Uberti is the maker of the Schofield and Russian models imported by Taylors and Cimarron
Same guns, different importers
They are great guns; but in my honest opinion, I wouldn't make them my first guns if I was just starting out
If you really want a pair, keep your eyes out on the online auction sites like gunbroker.com, gunauction.com and gunsamerica.com
Historically correct is neat; but will cost you more to do so.
All the current Schofields are made by Uberti and they are all the same. There is no difference in fit and finish other than the normal gun to gun variation. Doesn't matter whether its imported by Navy Arms, Taylors or Cimmarron. They are all the same.
This is off the subject, but if you are in Northern Va., consider taking a trip over to the N-SSA range in Winchester in the spring. The era is 20 years earlier than CAS, but lots of fun.
As for your kit, start off with affordable and work your way up. Your Remy conversion would be a great place to start. As the above posts suggest, go to some events and see what's out there. Also, the best way to be authentic is to read a lot. For every piece of gear you get, get a book and escape into history at lunch time.
First off : WELCOME PONTE ! You found a great bunch of fellers here and so far they have offered great advice.
You have plenty of time to make purchases...
Personal experience only, and not apples to apples but the quality of my Cimarron imported Russian is much better than a Stoeger imported Schofield I used to have. Same goes for my Cimarron 1873 Win. Could just be a coincidence though.
Quote from: 45Russian on January 23, 2013, 10:54:06 PM
Personal experience only, and not apples to apples but the quality of my Cimarron imported Russian is much better than a Stoeger imported Schofield I used to have. Same goes for my Cimarron 1873 Win. Could just be a coincidence though.
Personally, I feel it's more of a coincidence myself. My pair came from Taylors and are about 40 apart in their serial numbers. One is smoother and just a little nicer than the other.
Depending on the time frame in which they were actually manufactured, I feel it's quite possible that your Stoeger gun may not be as refined as the newer Cimarron. As with any thing handmade, skilled craftsmen usually get better with what they do in time.
Quote from: 45Russian on January 23, 2013, 10:54:06 PM
Personal experience only, and not apples to apples but the quality of my Cimarron imported Russian is much better than a Stoeger imported Schofield I used to have. Same goes for my Cimarron 1873 Win. Could just be a coincidence though.
A good comparison would be to say that a Chevy from dealer A is better finished that a Chevy from dealer B. A Chevy is a Chevy and any variation is luck of the draw. (Made on Wednesday instead of Friday afternoon or Monday morning. ;))
Ponte,
As already stated, get any of the currently manufactured Ubert Schofield models and you will be ok. I have 5 Uberti Top Breaks (2 Taylor, 1 Navy, 2 Beretta). Fit and finish is a non-issue between all of them.
Uberti finishes and releases the No. 3's in batches about every 6 months. The last batch came in late last summer.
You should get in touch with a local dealer who specializes in CAS guns. Get on a waiting list for the next batch.
BTW, these are the only style of main match revolver I use. You have good taste.
Thanks for your service.
Pancho
FWIW,
Like now, I couldnt find any new Schofields, so I was lucky enough to buy a territorial governor's 'practice' Navy Arms Schofields ... he had polished them, widened the rear site and so much more ...
They are a pleasure to shoot .... and I feel his work and loving hands every time I hold them ....
Ponte:
Welcome to the group. My advice to you is to see if you can find one to handle and/or shoot, perhaps at a match in your area. "Try before you buy" if you can. I am of medium height but have somewhat large hands, and find it uncomfortable to grip and cock the hammer on the Schofield. Knowing that you were in The Old Guard, you probably are quite tall, so this might not be an issue for you. But it's better to find out now, before you spend the money.
As others have mentioned, any of the current crop of Schofields should be comparable in quality. However, be aware that Cimarron imported a number of Schofields manufactured by Armi San Marcos (ASM) during the mid-1990s and these had a reputation for malfunctions. There are relatively few still out there though.
Best of luck, whatever you decide!
howdy, Ponte,
Welcome to our campfire! Thank you for your service!
One thing to keep in mind is that neither the Uberti Schofields nor the (now discontinued, but you can occasionally find them) S&W 2000 "Schofields" are completely true replicas of the origiinals. The Uberti's probably come the closest although the cylinders are lengthened to accomodate the .45 Long Colt cartidge. Smith & Wesson 2000 had the frame shortened, I guess to prevent anybody from chambering it for the .45 LC as opposed to the .45 Schofield round. In both case, the breech end of the barrels were shortend relative to the cylinder face, resulting in less tolernace for black powder fouling. (Yes, I've heard of some folks having less trouble with black powder, but most find it better to use smokeless loads).
My recommendation for you would be for whatever Uberti Schofield you can get your hands on.
I'm extremely grateful for the help all you guys have given me, as well cleared up any prior misconceptions I've had. I've recently had the pleasure of fooling around with a non-firing replica Schofield my fiance's father owns, and just as I expected: perfect hand fit. Cocking, handling, etc. feel incredibly natural, and I see no problem with me firing a live one in the near future.
I'm hoping Taylor Firearms is right when they stated a 2 month restock wait, because I DO NOT want to wait a solid 8-9 months for a Cimarron (this is straight from one of their company's reps) when it's essentially the same thing. I'm also crossing my fingers for the possibility of coming across one at the Dulles Expo Gun Show in Chantilly, VA.
FWIW, Dixie Gun Works has the .45 "cavalry" schofield in stock. That's where I bought mine last year.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_185&products_id=2562
MJN77...you are a saint. ;D
Just placed an order with Dixie, should hear back from my local gunshop later today when the transfer goes through. From what I understand, "Dixie Gun Works" is stamped on the left of the gun, but it's really no different than all the other distributors and the "Made in Italy" markings. Can't wait to take it out to the range later this week when it comes in!
QuoteMJN77...you are a saint.
Been called a lot of things in my life, but never a saint. :) Yes, Dixie stamps their guns where it is easily seen. Other than that it's just like any other Uberti.
I'm wondering...I know gunsmiths can re-finish weapons, but would it be out of the question to have all engravings (minus serial of course) sanded out and replaced with historically accurate markings that mirror original Schofields? (Smith and Wesson, location, years, etc)
Quote from: Ponte on January 28, 2013, 05:23:12 PM
I'm wondering...I know gunsmiths can re-finish weapons, but would it be out of the question to have all engravings (minus serial of course) sanded out and replaced with historically accurate markings that mirror original Schofields? (Smith and Wesson, location, years, etc)
Nothing is "out of the question" if you have enough money to apply to solving the problem. I don't know where you would get the dies for the "historically accurate" markings. Unless you can do the work yourself (or know someone that will do it free or cheap) it would be cheaper to buy an original.
Quote from: Ponte on January 28, 2013, 05:23:12 PM
I'm wondering...I know gunsmiths can re-finish weapons, but would it be out of the question to have all engravings (minus serial of course) sanded out and replaced with historically accurate markings that mirror original Schofields? (Smith and Wesson, location, years, etc)
If'n ya buy an Uberti Schofield from Dixie or Taylors, I wouldn't worry about them markings much
I won't be able to see 'em from my house ;D
Quote from: Abominable Bill on January 29, 2013, 04:36:39 PM
If'n ya buy an Uberti Schofield from Dixie or Taylors, I wouldn't worry about them markings much
I won't be able to see 'em from my house ;D
+1. I've shot a lot of different guns at a lot of different shoots all over the country and no one has ever bothered to try and read what's stamped on the guns. :o
Picked up the Schofield today from my local gunshop after Dixie over-nighted it to them. Loaded it up with snap caps, checked all the mechanisms, ejected them for a few times...looks like the mechanics of it are in time and functional. Cleaned up it, looked down the sight....PROBLEM!
As you can see, that front sight is bent to the left a good deal. This is an aimed view:
(http://i.imgur.com/0QaxtRy.jpg)
A view from the front:
(http://i.imgur.com/yH4h1Cc.jpg)
I'm wondering whether or not this is something my local gunsmith can easily fix. He removed a stripped screw and re-threaded the hole in the trigger guard on my fiance's Pietta 1858 for the lowest minimum service fee by his policy ($50). I'm guessing it'll probably be the same.
With trying to send it BACK, I just feel like it'll be almost the same exact cost with FFL shipping fees between my gun shop and Dixie Gun Works, and I'll have to spend weeks getting it repaired.
Not sure if anyone has had this problem, but any input would be appreciated.
That's easily fixed - even by yourself, if you used padded jaws on your pliers, or removed it and flattened it on a 'smooth' surface.
Scouts Out!
Fortunately the front sight on the Schofield is pinned in. Easy fix.
It's unfortunate that it arrived that way... but I have a question for you
Does it shoot to point of aim that way?
If so, it may have been done intentionally
It is my understanding that if your fixed sighted top break shoots to the right or the left, you will be bending the sight in the direction needed or just use kentucky windage all the time
If it needs to be replaced, you can get replacements at VTI Gun Parts
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=35&cat=Uberti+Schofield
Item # 15 cost $10.00
Congratulations on your Schofield. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine.
I have 3 of them. The first one I bought was an ASM in .45 Colt. I've put thousands of rounds through it and only ever had one issue with it. That was that the barrel release lever was so stiff that it was a real pain to open the gun to load or unload. I had Vaughn Truman fix that for me and now it's a true beauty. It's a Wells Fargo model. I also have 2 Uberti with 7 inch barrels in .45 Colt. One is the Navy Arms Founders model. I put a few hundred rounds through it but don't want to over shoot it. It's a special edition. ;D
The other is one that Pauncho helped me get. He's a breaktop loving fool like a few others here. Me included. I just love them S&Ws. I found a new one at the gun show last weekend in .45 and the guy only wanted $850 for it. Sadly, I didn't have but $200 on me and couldn't afford it. Dang!
It would have been a good addition to my Schofield family.
As far as I am concerned, you can't beat them for accuracy and fast loading/unloading. Plus, they are a beautiful gun. :D
The Uberti Schofield & Russian front sights are soft metal.. I had a pard drop his and bent the front sight significantly. Just clamped the front sight in a padded bench vice and twisted the pistol to re-straighten the sight. Worked like a charm
Howdy
For what it's worth, the front sights on the originals were pretty soft and easily bent too. They were very thin and easily bent. Trust me on this.
Mornin', Ponte.
Firstly, thank you for your service to our country. Secondly, you have great taste in both guns and movies. I'm almost done putting together my Charlie costume for this year's CAS season, and have another long barreled Schofield on layaway as we speak. That'll make three Schofields for me; two 7" 45 LC and one 5" 38 Special. All three of them are Stoegers. Fit and finish on all three is top notch, and the latest one on layaway has the Schofield patent inscribed on its barrel, so Uberti is starting to get wise.
Now, in regards to your sight problem, I presume this gun was perhaps used? If so, someone may have bent it to correct for windage. Schofields don't have sights that are particularly friendly to fine adjustments, and really your only two options would be to fill and file the rear sight or bend the front. Looks like someone chose the latter. The best way to confirm this is to go shoot it, preferably from a bench rest. If it hits bang on with that bent sight, it was probably a solution to a problem.
If not, then here's your chance to make your gun more historically accurate. Uberti chooses to blend the front sight pin with the rest of the barrel before finishing. While very pleasing looking, the old Smith and Wessons were usually seen with a pin that stood proud of the barrel. Some of the front sights were replaced with a dime if the factory piece broke off.
As far as markings go, the older Navy Arms Schofields had very accurate markings, though they obviously didn't have Smith and Wesson's address on them. I believe, legally speaking, you can't put another manufacturer's information on a gun while doing away with the real manufacturer's information. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be willing to test it.
And with finishing, look up Doug Turnbull. He's one of the few guys in the business who can apply the historically accurate blue and case coloring onto your gun. Gonna be expensive and a long wait, but I've seen his work in hand (on 1911s) and he's the best.
Maybe you want some 3:10 to Yuma leather to go with that gun? Google "Will Ghormley". He made a Charlie Prince "Flames of Hell" rig for me last year, and it is gorgeous. He made the actual screen-used leather, so it'll be completely screen accurate. He's also a really nice guy, so I don't hesitate to recommend him for business. You may not be able to get away with the twist draw, depending on how your range officer/shooting club interprets the rules. I have to demonstrate my draw each time I want to use it, and about half of them ban it. You'll have to get good with cross draw as your back up technique. Also, if you order a Charlie rig from Mr Ghormley, be sure to request that the holsters don't exceed 30 degrees of cant, so that they stay SASS legal.
I love my Schofields. Its a big, heavy gun that stays steady in the hand and produces surprisingly mild recoil, especially when used with 180 grain Ultramax .45 Schofield cartridges. I think you've made, to quote the knight at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, "a wise choice".
If you consider replacing the front sight, think about a period dime for a replacement. Ive seen more No. 3 frames with coinage for front sights than I can remember. Most of them were specimens where the barrel was cut down.
This is a link to one of Driftwood Johnsons DA44s with a dime for a front sight
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=38741.0
Maybe some Schofields are back in the supply line. Went to my local Sportsman's Warehouse to look at the desolation and see if any reloading supplies have come in. There on the large peg board behind the counter, almost all my itself, was a 5" Uberti .45 Schofield! If Sportsman's has them it might mean there are some at the distributors again.
If anybody is hunting for Uberti Schofields, I saw 4 brand new Cimarrons at 3B Shooting Supply on Tuesday morning. Just came in fresh from Italy. He had all three barrel lengths on the shelf.
I will vouch for 3B. Pancho and 3B did me right a year ago when I was looking for one. Great price and the gun is great. In fact, it's the best Schofield in my collection of 3 of them. For some reason it doesn't have the problem where I cock the hammer back and it sometimes feels like it's catching on something. This one is smooth as butter and shoots right where I want it to hit.
If I had the money I would own a dozen Schofields. They are my favorite pistols.
A period penny (indian head) is almost a perfect fit width-wise for the Uberti Russians and the Laramies... I suspect for the Schofields also.
Schofields are coming back on line once more...mine should arrive in the next couple of days at the local gun shop where I work. Can hardly wait to get it!
Regards,
Jake
I've seen two new Schofield's for sale recently. One was at a gun show this last weekend. Price was $850.00. A store near my home has one right now for about that same price. I didn't see the caliber of the latter one. The first was .45 colt.
I'm thinking that if the one near by is .45 colt I may just have to make it Schofield number 4 in my collection. I do love them Schofield's. :D
Schofield is no longer available.
Regards,
Jake
As has been mentioned in another thread - if it's an Armi San Marco piece - it needs a 'thorough' looking-over, due to QC concerns.
Scouts Out!
This is a NIB Uberti-made Schofield...recently manufactured. But it is no longer available.
Regards,
Jake