With the completion of the Apache Boot pattern, I started on the 1911 pattern pack today.
My first holster was to simulate the spotted cowboy holster in Packin' Iron. While I liked the over all effect of that holster, there were some design choices with it I wouldn't have made. So, I decided that rather than duplicating it, I would make it the way I wanted it to be made in the first place.
So, I labored along all day, drawing, tweaking, and re-drawing the pattern. I finally stopped for supper. When I came back to it in the evening, I looked at the tolerances I had incorporated, (bearing in mind it is lined), and decided the slide would rack while being shoved into the holster. So, I just re-drew the entire dimensions with the competitive shooter in mind. A much roomier holster now.
Since I don't own any such modern weapon as the 1911, I've been using a toy gun Dalton Masterson has loaned me. I'm workin' on a deal to trade for a Cimarron 1911 to use in the photos and such. I would much rather be doin' this with the real weapon, but the toy has the same basic dimensions. It will do until I get the real deal.
The pattern pack is goin' to be strong on cowboy holsters. It will also include simplifications of the military belt and shoulder holsters. They will look basically the same, (except for hardware), but will be built with simplicity. I'll also include modern carry holsters and a modern shoulder holster offset by spare mag bags. There will also be slip-on mag pouches for the belt.
That's the plan anyway. It may change as the actual patterns come into being. I'm pretty excited about the spotted cowboy holster. I'll have to post that as soon as I have it done. If I don't have my Cimarron by then, you boys'll have to enjoy gawkin' Dalton's toy gun. I think I'll also build a "How-To" webpage for each holster for those who are just startin' out.
Will
That sounds great will. You do this, and I could be the first one in line to get the pattern ;D I would love to be able to see a pattern for a 1911, and would really like to be able to see a western 1911 holster patern. Good luck, I can't wait to see.
Quote from: mtgelaude on August 12, 2011, 10:22:15 PM
That sounds great will. You do this, and I could be the first one in line to get the pattern ;D I would love to be able to see a pattern for a 1911, and would really like to be able to see a western 1911 holster patern. Good luck, I can't wait to see.
If it's like this one I'm second.
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/HOLSTERS/m1911-frazier-001.jpg)
I want one of those for my old Luger with two clips...I like the one i have but having another would be cool with that old west look :) :)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/L9002-1.jpg)
Nice rig there Rick!
Yeah Deadeye, that's the holster I'm workin' on right now. It will have the same "look", but I'm changin' it some to suite my design sensibilities.
Will
Quote from: will ghormley on August 13, 2011, 07:25:48 AM
Nice rig there Rick!
Yeah Deadeye, that's the holster I'm workin' on right now. It will have the same "look", but I'm changin' it some to suite my design sensibilities.
Will
How about an matching double mag pouch too? ;) ;D
Will, we will be looking forward to seeing your new pattern, and you picked a great design also.
tEN wOLVES ;D
Hi Wil
How did the M1916 assemble go?
Dave
Hey Dave,
I'm goin' to copy all the parts to patterns. However, for this pattern pack to be marketable to Tandy, it has to utilize hardware Tandy sells. So, what I make for this pattern pack will be a simplification of the military gear. I'll use the actual military pieces to "simulate" a military looking holster. Later, I'll try to put together accurate military patterns with hardware packages.
Will
Cool wil
Let me know if I can help in anyway!
Dave
Will, I have a blue(it is really black) Colt 1911A1 I can loan you if you will give me the pattern pack and include a 3 slot pancake holster in it. If interested call me at 5754300139(Mtn Time) and we can work out the arrangements.
Will,
You dont happen to have plans to reproduce those conchos do you? I have been looking for a nice set like the Frazier ones, but have had no luck yet.
DM
PS, Definately put me down on the list for a pattern pack.
That'll be a great pattern pack. Looking forward to seeing it.
Quote from: Dalton Masterson on August 14, 2011, 01:31:35 PM
Will,
You dont happen to have plans to reproduce those conchos do you? I have been looking for a nice set like the Frazier ones, but have had no luck yet.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37098.0;attach=33336;image
DM
PS, Definately put me down on the list for a pattern pack.
Those conchos appear to be the same ones Tandy has. Pretty cheap, too. Unless you're talking about different conchos. If so, never mind. ;D
The Frazier conchos are not the same as the cheap Tandy ones. They appear to be silver, and the pattern is a little different.
The ones on my 1911 rig are the plated brass ones from Tandy.
DM
Hey Dalton,
There aren't any plans on duplicating the conchos. I won't even be duplicating the holster, just makin' one along the same lines. The one I'm laying out will use Tandy's plain slotted conchos in 1" and 1 1/4" sizes. Any other concho of the same size can be substituted. Or different size ones, but they won't line up with the rest of the spot pattern on the holster.
The spotted holster I'll be laying out is made of 9-10 oz. leather with pigskin lining. The spotted holster in the photo is a lighter leather and has a slimmer profile.
Will
Quote from: Dalton Masterson on August 14, 2011, 07:22:18 PM
The Frazier conchos are not the same as the cheap Tandy ones. They appear to be silver, and the pattern is a little different.
The ones on my 1911 rig are the plated brass ones from Tandy.
DM
Dalton, You may want to take a look at www.dangerousthreadzinc.com they have some great conchos you may find what your looking for. They are really good quality also I've ordered quite a few from there.
http://www.buffalobrothers.net/conchos/conchos_17.htm
I have a few of them.Not real heavy but not thin either.
Got the first two proto-types done today. Posted pics on what will be my 1911 webpage. You can see the finished protos at this link:
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
I made the spotted holster roomy for those who shoot race-guns with large sights. Don't know if I like the bulker look. What do you guys think? With the small original military sights, you don't need much room in there. But, any kind of modern sight is goin' to get pokey if the pouch is too tight.
Fishin' for sugestions.
Will
beautiful work will. cant wait for the patterns to be available
Will, I think the bulky look is fine. Its not that noticeable to me, especially with all the other things going on with the design.
Good job!
DM
I actually like the tooled one on the right. ;D Of course, I like the entire look of the one on the right more than the left. I do not know how hard it would be to "slim down" one pattern, but I prefer a good fit with not too much extra. Just my two bits.....oh, did I say I love those rigs. But I really like the one on the left. Great work.
Matt
Amazing job Will! I love both patterns they turned out awesome! I don't think the bulk of the spotted holster takes anything away from the look at all. Great designs all the way around.
They look very good Will, the one with the cut away trigger guard would be very popular with the competitive shooters. As to the extra volume included for weird trigger guards and sight sets, it would be a simple matter to add the fix or two for those with standard guns. First the space would allow room for a heavy liner to be used where desired. A second fix would be the addition of a pair of parallel dotted lines running down the fold area of the pattern with instructions on how to remove this strip to snug the holster if desired. I think that 3/8" to 1/2" strip would go a fair ways without impacting the spot/concho pattern to terribly.
A thought on the military pattern, I like your idea on the close facsimile more so than trying to acheive a perfect clone to the original. I am sure some would disagree but I think looks good is close enough for ninety percent or more of your market. I, for one, will be patiently waiting to place my order!
Lovely Will. Cant wait to get my dirty hands on the pattern :)
Thanks for the continuing feedback guys.
I'm contemplating adding a narrower spotted pattern, (lace holes, spot layout, concho layout, skirt width, loop size, will all be effected by trimming down the holster and my obsessive/compulsive tendencies, [which by the way improve the quality of my patterns and overall detailed work], have me leaning towards starting from scratch.
Slowhand, I'm with you. The expense of purchasing period correct military spec hardware for the holster would inhibit most folks from actually making authentically correct military holsters. I believe by simplifying the pattern to attain the "look" of the military holsters, and using readily available hardware, I can best serve the larger number of holster makers and hobbyists. I will have to make the correct military gear to suit my own proclivities, but those patterns and hardware packets can be sold separately.
I'll be sewing up another, very abbreviated "Tom Threepersons" styled tooled western holster this afternoon. I'll post the photo on the 1911 page when I get 'er done. Don't know how secure it will be. May have to redesign it with a security strap.
Will
Got photos up of the third proto-type, (Tom Threepersons). It's my new favorite!
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Very nice Will. How is the retention? That looks to be a very quick holster for WB.
Thats a nice looking early 1911 in there too!
DM
Hey Dalton,
I jumped up and down vigorously and the gun didn't budge a bit. I figure it would work for just about any shooting competition. If I were riding a horse, or in a combat environment, I would want a strap on it. One could be snapped to the face of the pouch, but would have to be backed with thin leather to keep from scratchin' the weapon.
I couldn't be happier with the 1911! It is offered by Cimarron and made in the Philippines. The quality and reputation of the Philippine-made 1911s is very good. They are not high-performance race-guns, but they are workman-like guns that stand the gaff and put the lead down range. The thumb safety isn't quite right for the earliest model, but all the other aspects of the gun are worth overlooking that one slight shortcoming, (and the thumb safety is easier to use as is). I will be gettin' me some 550 cord and making a lanyard that will retain the pistol and the first discarded mag.
I was the only guy I ever knew in the Army who still used the lanyard for the 1911A1. I always dropped the empty mags down my shirt. Some of those were hot!
Will
Will thats some DARN NICE leather your showing. Thanks for showing. KT :)
Very nice Will, this should work for all, my favorite is the Frazier#9
tEN wOLVES ;D
Will, I gotta disagree with you on this one. My style is the second model, looks fast and the skirt style is beautiful while also adding the western flare. Good job on all of them as far as I am concerned. Are you ok on magazine pouch patterns for the various holster styles? Though I really like the look of Outriders double pouch pattern more than mine, I would be glad to send mine for you to look at. They are fairly easy to make and the individual pouches can be done as singles.
On the 1911, I actually have one of the High Standard versions of the same Philippine gun. It tends to be a bit more picky with magazines than are my Colts but I am up to several that work well with it now and the more it is fired the more mags it is accepting. Trigger pull is a bit rough but my daughter-in-law ran almost two hundred rounds through it in one outing and loved it! She wants me to be sure and bring it back, with lots more ammo, on my next trip down home. ;D
Will, mighty fine looking leather there pardner....I agree with all that has been said by the other wrnglers on here...
Hey Slowhand..I know what your talking about as far as your daughter-in-law is concerned. I made the mistake of giving my AR to my wife to try...now I never get to shoot the darn thing.
I haven't spent much time thinkin' about mag pouches yet. I'll probably be doin' something real similar to the old canvas pouch military doubles. But, Outrider is sendin' me a pattern. I may end up with several styles, if there is room in the pattern pack.
I'm thinkin' about makin' a deep SOB with a spare mag pouch built in, for those times when you are in a tee shirt and shorts but still want to pack heat.
The Tom Threepersons-type holster is goin' to Gov. Rick Perry this Saturday since he often goes heeled, (as an encouragement to keep on stickin' it in the eye of those who disagree with traditional American values). It can be made straight, (as shown in the photo), or with a cant to it. I'll probably make another one with a cant to replace it.
My wife loves to shoot 1911s rather than my wheel guns, (don't know what's wrong with that girl). Since I haven't had time to shoot it at all, I should get 500 rounds from Cheaper Than Dirt and send her out to break it in.
Will
Had my head been screwed on straight I would have used a bigger envelope and included my mag pouch with the order I just sent to you. It looks very similar to the single mag version Chuck used with his rig but mounted as doubles on a belt slide. From talking with some of the guys who use these in SASS competition it is important that the slides be made to place both mags facing forward on the off side. I actually think this allows a standard index finger forward draw and insert technique for the 1911 in any competition.
PS: I think SASS rules do not allow mag pouches to have any cant angle, mags must hang at 90deg.
Yep. Straight hang mag pouches, and 2" of the mag covered at least, if I recall.
DM
Very nice designs, Will. I particularly like the Frazier. Darn beautiful holster, there.
I'm workin' on the pattern for para-military belt holsters right now. The look will be very similar, but I'm makin' 'em with belt loops, rather than the wire military hangers for the web belts. Even though it will detract from the overall correct "look", a feller won't have to go buyin' extra hardware to have somethin' that will do. Even at that, I've found photos of non-issue, private purchase, belt holsters that were used in WWI/WWII.
Same as any other conflict, and even my own experience in the military, (I modified and added to my own gear, and that of fellers in my Company.) I've noticed how many "personal purchase" items show-up in news feeds from Iraq and Afghanistan. So, even though the holsters aren't mil issue, they are similar in appearance, functional, versatile, and easier to construct. The leather is heavier than mil issue holsters so it doesn't need all the reinforcement redundancies built into the originals.
Gotta get back to work!
Will
Got two of the para-military belt holsters done. One is made like the earliest Cavalry holsters with the swivel. That's the one shown in the photo. The other uses the same holster, but has a simple belt loop instead.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Looks like the cats meow!! Good job on that design.
DM
Got a pancake holster proto-type done. A few bugs with it that will have to be fixed, but it's headin' in the right direction.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Nice!!!
AC
Will,
I have a new favorite holster I think. That pancake looks like a BBQ rig if I ever saw one. Very neat design.
Lookin forward to this pack of patterns.
DM
Will, I really like the flap swivel one it is like the one I shot my first WB match in several years ago. I hooked the flap on the hanger so it was out of the way and never had a problem but mine didn't have the leg strap or look as good. I think I picked it up from Coon Creek the Year before. How about including a 3 slot pancake holster in that pack.. Everyone does the folded Threepersons styles nobody does the pancake type. I am currently checking several of the DVDs on holsters and so far it is all folded holsters no pancake ones. I looked at Bianchi, hurst and waiting on Dusty's to be delivered.
I like the pancake too, except the carving that is hidden by the gun make you want to pull the gun out all the time so you can see it.
I'm goin' to re-configure it with a thumb-release strap and a wider pouch to accept 1911s with larger sights than the originals.
With the three slots, it hangs straight or angled, without any modifications to the pattern. I like it!
Will
They all look awsome to me. The shapes and style alone are great, the carving is just eyecandy. :o. I like the second one the most still, but the flap holster is now the new #2. ;D
I'm with you mtgelaude, #2 just brings out my gamy side (not talking BO here either :o ). Lets vote, in order of preference, I vote 2,4,1,3, and 5. I think #4 will prove to be a money maker for those who like the military dress-up 'on a budget' side of the game. As we know there are more than a few who will prefer the bling offered by #1, while #3 will go well with the working cowboy or conservative traditional lawman look. I really like #5 but consider it more of a modern working/sports style. When I get mine, I will likely alter all to open toe designs except for #1 and #4 which are actually enhanced by the closed toe.
Bob, that is about my vote too. I would say 2, 4, 1, with 3 and five ranking aobut equal. If I was the type to wear a CCW, I would like 5, but I like the idea of the very basic holster with nothing to get hung up on somthing. IDK, I still love No. 2. It is like a Mexan Loop/Defensve Carry/Hand of God kind of holster. Now only if I had one of those Cimarron 1911's to go with it, ( do not think they are legal in this state :'( )
Unless you are in Europe...they are legal in every state. Some countries in Europe do not allow calibers larger than..... I think it is .38/.357
I would really think the top three would line up just like that for any pards here who use these as patterns for their SASS Wild Bunch holster line. I just spent a little time in the shop working on a magazine pattern like the one JD uses. It is a dandy and somewhat simple to construct BUY as always, I want to make some alterations to 'make it mine' so to speak. My first change was to lop one inch from the pattern, straight across the top, to get more of the magazine up for that fast draw look. I left the bottom fold up at full length with the idea of rolling it down/inside at the top for the belt loop but I did run into a problem. It went together really well and is a snug fit on the two inch belts I use BUT, without a tension device, it doesn't close up against the fold in mag divider as I had hoped. In my mind the belt insertion should have snugged everything down but alas it did not happen. It looks good and I have a couple of ways to make it work BUT none that I like. I want that front to remain open for a small pattern and all of my ideas so far either require a concho or such on the front or complicated fixes. If I get some time today I will do a kwik photo or two of the first proto and post to illustrate my miseries.
Outrider, I live in California, and it has to do with not having an internal safety. The Department of Justice has a list of Handguns that are legal in California, and it is not on the list. SImilar guns are, but that model is not. Now, if anybody here has contrary info, I would like ot hear about it.
Will, I like them all, you're tooling is great. I like the Three Person's the most far as looks. I have a holster similar to #4 the military 1911 model I think but mine uses a wire hanger for canvas belts and a leather hanger for the wire loop for leather belts if you would like I would send it to you for comparisons. While on this holster where did you get the swivel use at? Now I really like #5 for carrying but would not consider it a pancake holster since it is folded and is fastened to the back piece somehow. Now I wish I was as talented as you are. I do not wish to get us reprimanded for taking about modern leather here.
I also, have a leather pouch similar to what you are describing for the period mag pouch if you would like for me to send it I can.
Nothing personal...but I think California is really going (or is already gone) to the pits....I can't believe some of the garbage they make you go through.... :'(
Hey Blackey,
The swivel comes from the early cavalry holsters of 1911-1912. It isn't a copy of the early holsters because I wanted a pattern folks could make without buying specialty hardware. For that reason, I've avoided using wire loops or lift-a-dot post snaps. It wouldn't be difficult for someone to modify the belt loop to go around a wire hanger. Then you would have something that looks just like a photo in a collectors gallery of an early "civilian purchase" that was used in WWI.
I haven't started on the mag pouches yet, but will soon. I don't need any patterns for those. What I come up with will be more along the lines of the early leather military pouches, but without the military hardware. They will be easily modified for those who wish to do the competitive "thing".
Thanks everyone for your kind offers of help, your encouragement, and feedback. They have all helped to shape the direction of this pattern pack.
Will
Will,
Got my box back today. Thank YOU!!!!
DM
Will, I understand that is where the idea came from my intent was where does one purchase the swivel sorry for the confusion.
Outrider, you're absolutely right, I'm born and raised here in California, and it's gone to the dogs, I can't wait to get out of here, hopefully by next years if I'm lucky
tEN wOLVES ::) >:(
Will,
Got my box today...much appreciated but not necessary. Thank you.. :D ;D If time allows and the weather is good we might get a chance to see you during our upcoming trip to Iowa in December
Hey Blackey,
I didn't do an internet search to look for the swivels. What I did was skive down both the front and the back of the leather sewn to the pouch, where it swivels. Then, I took a 1" round punch and punched out 1" disks. I punched those in the center with a round punch that would allow a #9 copper rivet to swing freely.
I used a 1" #9 copper rivet, passed it through one 1" leather washer, through the front of the belt loop, through the leather sewn to the pouch, through the back of the belt loop, and through a 1" leather washer. With the thickness of the leather, the post of the rivet doesn't need to be trimmed.
I peened-down the post over the copper burr, but not so tight it wouldn't swing.
With the rivet running through the belt loop on both sides of the holster leather, it shouldn't tear out near as fast as the military swivels that have the holsters attached at the outside of the wire hanger leathers.
Not militarily correct, but it is simple and gets the job done.
Hey Outrider,
If I thought it was necessary, I probably wouldn't have done it. I just appreciate your efforts and wanted you to know.
Will
Will,
Appreciate the friendship
Ten Wolves...there's lots of roomhere in Tenn. come on down
Outrider, you have been a good friend to me and always willing to step forward and for this I thank you. You sir are a cowboy. I received my 'Christmas in September' package from Will and consider his latest patterns to be even better than his earlier work. Guys, just be sure that if you order the WG conchos not to drop one on your toe, these are not the cheap leather craft store fare, these are heavy. Now to save up for those two custom stamps.
Bob,
Those stamps are very nice to have. I havent used them a lot, but when I do use them, they look great.
Will,
How long do you think it will be on the 1911 pack? I have a few people in mind for some Christmas presents from this.
Thanks,
DM
Hey Dalton,
I've been slavin' away workin' long hours to get it wrapped up, off to the printers, for distribution through TLF, (Tandy Leather Factory). I'm still probably two weeks from gettin' it all on paper to be scanned, and that's optimistic. Two to three months from when I send it off to the printers, (depending on the printer's schedule and how fast TLF can get it distributed).
But, bein' a one-man-shop, there are always unforeseen events that can slow stuff down. Take the bike accident I had two weeks ago. My friends have been tellin' me, "Will, you're too old to be jumpin' your mountain bike down a flight of stairs!" And I keep tellin' 'em, "No, I'm plenty young enough to jump my bike down a flight of stairs. I'm just too old to wreck the stunt."
Then there is my vintage, collectors item, 1987 2500 GMC Suburban that I took the train to Utah to buy, (the truck of my dreams, the last vehicle I will every buy). It still needs a fresh coat of paint and undercoating before it can survive a winter of salt here on the arctic plains of Ioway country, (it has no rust bein' a western truck). But, my bike stunt has left me a week behind on the sanding and priming because I couldn't function properly. The good news is, now it is all sanded down to the metal and primed. Next step is the mil spec flat desert sand paint job, (with flat white Normandy "Invasion Stars" painted on the doors, back barn doors, and hood). Then it is good-to-go for it's first winter here in the frozen tundra. Next year will be the custom full-length luggage rack, spare tire rack, jerry can rack, military bumpers, and winch. Can you say, "Most awe inspiring off-road, adventure vehicle ever!?" It's all manual and factory stripped, (it doesn't even have floor coverings, AC, power windows, or a headliner), so there is little to break down or need maintenance. Like I always say, "You can live in your Suburban, but you can't drive your house to work!"
So, if everything goes well, (and in my world that is always a very big "if"), you may have the patterns in time to work night and day to get everything done for the blessed season of our Lord's birth. But, since you are waiting on it, I will redouble my efforts and try to speed things along.
Will
No hurry Will. I would rather you have some enjoyment working on your truck some too! I have to get my 63 Galaxie weatherstrip job finished before winter too, so I know how that goes.
And stairs and bikes. Been there, would do it again....but faster. ;)
DM
Will, sorry the leather washer and a quick glance made me think it was an original style swivel. I can not wait to get this pattern. I plan on doing some Wild Bunch leather here soon to replace the "Big Store" stuff that I have. For Cowboy I made everything except two items on my belt the holsters(Long Hunter Custom order Plain Black) and the Cap pouch. I need to make some more ammo pouches since I sold my last one that had a belt clip instead of belt loops.
For Wild Bunch I wish to make a new belt with the 1911 buckle then the holster. Follow that by the 5 Round 45 and 5 Round 12Ga loops on a slide. Then the Mag pouches.
Those paramilitary holsters are really good. I particularly like the swivel holster. You captured the look beautifully. Thumbs-up.
Well, I re-worked the "pancake" holster, (yeah I know it's not a true "pancake", but I'm too lazy to make up a new name for it), before I got what I wanted, (three times it took me!).
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
The close-up inset photo is of how I recessed the female snap into the 4-5 oz. leather liner so it would be less likely to touch the finish of the pistol. The holster itself is 9-10 oz. leather with the 4-5 oz. liner, makin' it a pretty heavy-duty holster. I went with the lining so the snaps on the thumb release, (a modern design feature), wouldn't wear on the pistol's finish.
I'm also re-designing the Pancho holster, (the holster with the skirt), to fit over a three inch belt, and widened the skirt by a quarter inch on each side. There will also be a straight-hang version of the Pancho in the pattern pack.
I'm also re-designing the Tom Threepersons-style holster to make it a little more secure.
I need to add the para-military tanker's rig and the mag pouches and that'll be this pattern pack. I may have to make another 1911 pattern, or even, (I can't believe I'm sayin' this!), a modern holster pattern pack that'll fit more than just the 1911. I can't stand the idea of makin' holsters for them plastic play guns! But, I need to raise money to buy me an old house in a little town where my family will be safe. I don't want to be in the capital city when everything falls to pieces next year.
Will
Wow Will. You have been busy.
They all still look great! I cant wait for the pack to be done!
Sadly, the modern plasticy type guns are what I have been making the most of right now. I would gladly take a pattern pack for them too. I have several blue guns I could loan you if needed, as well.
DM
I'm with you Will, thats why I live where I live now. Just a hop skip and a jump from the uninhabited desert. Would like to see a verision of the 1911 that rides high on the belt for CCW. Your decision, but that last one is so beautiful. I would like one of the pattern packs when they are done. Keep us advised.
AC
Hey AC,
That fake "pancake" could actually ride higher by moving the pouch up. I hadn't even thought about that till you mentioned it. I can add a different set of attachment lines so the holster can be sewn on higher up on the belt plate. Great idea!
Will
Quote from: will ghormley on September 16, 2011, 08:08:27 AM
Hey AC,
That fake "pancake" could actually ride higher by moving the pouch up. I hadn't even thought about that till you mentioned it. I can add a different set of attachment lines so the holster can be sewn on higher up on the belt plate. Great idea!
Will
You could probably even mount t-nuts as anchors for the pancake in the holster, and have several sets of holes to mount the paddle on. Or even different types of attatchments, (belt loop, paddle, etc).
Will, great work I will be picking up the pack when you finish it myself even if it is two different packs. I also have several blue guns I could loan you. Taurus 24/7 & Springfield XD.
Thanks for the offers of the blue gun guys. I may take you up on it. I really don't know what sort of simi-autos are floatin' around out there. I would probably have to go with a "large" holster and a "small" holster and make 'em gun buckets. Or, I could have one style of holster modified for several different kinds of guns. We'll just have to see...
TLF has expressed an interest in my moc patterns if I can reconfigure them to what they want to sell. I think I can swing it and have three more patterns ready to go to market pretty fast. But, first I have to get through this 1911 project. It has been somethin' of a struggle adaptin' my thought process from wheel-guns to the 1911. They just ain't build the same. It seems that every pattern I have to take at least two runs at it before I get it right. Oh well, I should be an expert by the time I get the pattern pack done.
Will
Will, all of us really have so many ideas on this project but I fear you may have to step back and think about reducing how much one can reasonably offer in a single pattern pack at a reasonable price. From what I have seen of your military prototype, I think that it is a winner and would sell more than a correct copy ever could. The correct copy is fun for something informal, for such as the guys here but just such a tiny market elsewhere. I also think your idea of going to a 'modern generic' set of patterns as an alternative to staying with the 1911. This would be an untouched market filled with so many guns not covered by the pattern packs of the old school. Good luck.
Will, I have been following this thread with great interest.
If tandy does not want these patterns I hope you will offer them on your website.
I personally like "The Frazier" style the best. this one would also look great with some floral or oakleaf toolling.
just sitting here waiting for the patterns to be available but its hard. im chomping at the bit to get these patterns :( ;D
Got the revision of the "Pancho" done and a photo posted on the page. Don't know if I'll get any other work done on the pattern this weekend.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Wow, I like it. I am not sure that I like it more than the last version, but I still like it a bunch. How the heck do you make revisions and a holster as fast as you do? I work on one holster for weeks between designing and making it. Nice work.
Glad you like it mtgelaude. As for how I get it done, this is all I do. If I don't do it, my kids go hungry. That's a pretty good motivator.
Will
I sure am looking forward to this pattern pack becoming available. I would imagine that's true for many guys on this forum.
That carved Pancake holster is really sharp; well they're all sharp!
Someone may have already asked this, but what kind of leather are using for these holsters? Your leather always looks super nice, and the color is outstanding.
Thanks Will, God bless, JD
Hey JD,
This is the veg-tanned, half-hide, 9-10 oz. carving leather from TLF. Actually, since I'm such a Scott, all of the holsters shown are made out of the scraps I wouldn't use on holsters for my payin' customer.
I've applied extra virgin olive oil and used gum tragacanth on the edges and backing. Since most of the leather is old, it already has a nice color to it after it is oiled. However, for those that were a little on the pale side, I set those in the sun for a couple of days.
I just finished what I call the "Over/Under Crossdraw" for concealed carry. It can be made either way for either side. Since I just made one proto-type, I took the photos wearing it first on the left side for right-hand draw, then on the right for left-hand draw. I'd be interested in knowin' what you guys think of it. It's kind'a different and my not be appealing.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Let me know. Thanks,
Will
Will,
I like the general design of that crossdraw, but something doesnt seem quite right about it.
The outside belt version seems fine and beautiful, but the inside the belt version looks uncomfortable, having the belt twisted out and around like that.
Of course, I have to wear a belt tight to keep up my pants, so this may actually work for someone else. I have tried a few inside the belt holsters, and have never liked the feel of them.
I do like the outside belt version though. Its kind of like an unflapped flap holster. Lots of room to do carving and such.
DM
Thanks for the critique Dalton. Yeah, if folks don't like inside the belt holsters, they won't like this one either. And that's OK. I didn't know if there was any demand for this type of holster or not. Hopefully, I'll find out.
Plenty of times I've just stuck a gun in my waistline for quick temporary carry, and that's always uncomfortable. I didn't know if this type of holster would meet a need or not. We'll see. I also thought about a bikini holster as well, but haven't made a prototype.
Will
Actually from a design standpoint it should be a winner in the functional arena. I would tend to prefer redesigning the belt loop to a snap around feature of attaching to the belt from a full inside waist band carry.
Great Idea!
Will
Now thats a good idea, SB! A western IWB for those of us that prefer not to have ugly gear! ;)
I like that idea too, Will.
DM
Will, I would agree the one or two patterns for several of the modern stuff would be better that several variations for the 1911 especially after your current pattern. Just ask here for us to pm you with the guns that we make holsters for and compile it to the top five. I would expect glock (All three sizes), XD, S&W M&P or the most popular frame sizes for their wheel guns, 1911, RugerLCR, Khar, Browning High Power, the M9/ Berreta P92 and Kel-Tec 9mm and 380.
Got two prototypes for mag pouches done. One is a snap-on competition pouch. The other is based on an early leather military pouch. Both are made entirely of 4-5 oz. leather.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Will, I went to the house Friday and found several items that I thought were lost. Of these I found my repo tanker shoulder holster for the 1911 and my leather mag pouch for the 1911 If you would like I will photo these and try and post them here for you and others to compare them against your originals to.
Hey Blackey,
I think everyone would be interested in seein' 'em.
Will
Heres some pics of the 1942 Tanker I did about two years ago.
Very clean Outrider! Thanks for the pics.
Well, a friend of mine who comes over for a Monday evening fellowship at my house, asked me if I wanted to go out and actually shoot my new Cimarron 1911. He has a Glock knock-off .40 cal. and was favorably impressed by the trigger action on my 1911 when he checked it out in my shop.
So, this Sunday after church, we went out and ran about 450 rounds through it. We took my South African son-in-law, my friend's wife, and my two youngest sons with us to shoot, (the boys shot an array of .22 rifles while the adults shot the pistols, [and a few rounds through some of the .22s]).
I fired 40 of the 450 rounds that went through the Cimarron 1911 and was very favorably impressed. Everyone preferred the 1911 over the .40 cal. We did not stop to clean or maintain the 1911 and there wasn't a single malfunction, no matter who has handling it.
It's no race-gun, but for the demands of the battle field, the accuracy, and more importantly, the dependability of the Cimarron 1911, was everything a soldier could ask for. I fired one-handed, (as required in an over-run exercise where you have to be able to engage targets within the 360 degrees of your AO without moving from your kneeling position), with both the right and left hand. All of my 40 rounds were within the six inch ring at ten paces. You can't ask more of a combat sidearm than that.
I still prefer to shoot wheel guns, but my choice of the Cimarron 1911 was the best choice I could have made for an early cowboy 1911!
Will
Outrider, I rank 1911's mat the top of the scale. I have a Kimber Custom that I carry sometimes for a change from the XD-45. And My RIA 1911 that is setup for Competition is really nice. I think the 1911's have a really short trigger pull, which makes them very accurate in my opinion.
Wooooo Hooooo! This morning I finally started putting the pattern down in the sheet form it will be printed in. Hopefully I'll have it done and ready to go to the printer by the end of next week, (cross your fingers). The pattern will consist of the holsters and magazine pouches shown in the prototypes. With printed instructions, it should take up three sheets.
I would have liked to get more in, but for most folks to be successful in making the different kinds of holsters, I'll need to have some instructions printed for each of the holster styles. We'll see how this pattern goes and see if TLF will want a second pattern on the 1911.
Will
It will be really nice to work with those patterns, if they are as good as the outher pattern you've
made then they are great.
When are you going to get Paypal Will? ;)
When do you think they will be available, Will? Will you sell them or will we have to go through Tandy?
Thanks for your hardwork!
DM
Hey B Bob,
Don't know if I ever will get paypal. I'm havin' a hard enough time gettin' the things I know how to do done, let alone do somethin' I don't have a clue about, (anything electronic, tech, or computer).
Hey Dalton,
If TLF picks up the pattern, it will be mass produced and sold through the TLF outlets. Because of their infrastructure, they can resale and distribute them less expensively than I can. If they don't pick up the pattern, (not likely), I will sell 'em myself. They will be priced like my other patterns that are printed in small batches and hand assembled in my workshop.
But, I'd better get back to work. My hands start achin' and my neck gets stiff hunchin' over my light table tracing patterns. I take occasional breaks, usually to check on the young boys, my emails, or, in this case, what's happenin' on CAS. Then, it's back to work.
Tonight, I have to carve another prototype of the Tom Threepersons holster. I made some minor improvements to the pattern, but the first prototype ended up with Gov. Rick Perry, (Tom Threepersons had worked in law enforcement in Texas). Now I have to re-make it and take the photographs for the pattern pack. I may get the new prototype posted on the website by late tomorrow.
Will
Revised Tom Threepersons, in angled configuration.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Well, it's Friday afternoon, (7OCT11), and I don't have the patterns done yet. I'm workin' on the text for the third page. Hope to have it all typed up before I knock-off for the day. But, I had hoped to have it down at the blueprint place gettin' scanned by now. Man, has this project taxed my abilities! If I work through the weekend, I'll get it scanned on Monday. How long have I been workin' on this project? I can't even remember the last thing I did before I started workin' on the 1911.
So, next week I'll get the pricing from the printer and send a hard copy to TLF to see if they want to pick the pattern up. Then, clean up the individual orders that have been stackin' up on my table, and off on the next project. No rest for the wicked eh...
Will
Will, personally I like it and would expect no more. I hope your hard work and time will pay off big on your end and I certainly will be waiting in line to get my copy's.
Will, I sure hope that TLF picks it up. There are very few good patterns for 1911 stuff. And your patterns are great. I can not wait to get my hands on a set of these patterns. Good luck, and don't work too hard ;D
One of the problems I've had with the 1911 is the number of patterns I wanted to put in it. In my other holster patterns, it's the same holster over and over, only for different guns. If the construction needs explanation, you only have to do it once. With the 1911, there are holsters in there that need an explanation for construction. I have to be able to fit the different instructions in the space and it's drivin' me crazy. What is necessary that I simply must mention, what can folks figure out on their own so I don't burn the space I have available? I hope I'm gettin' the job done. My "plan B" will be to have photos on my website. I probably won't go into a tutorial like I have on some of the other projects, but at least folks can look at the steps in sequence.
But, already I have a list of patterns I wanted to put in there that I simply couldn't. I wanted to put at least one Bikini holster in there and I didn't have room, (if there is room after all the text, I might throw one in, but with minimal instructions). I've got the "Top's Bikini" (based on Sgt. Major Jonas Blane's Bikini in "The Unit"), the "Straight-Up" Bikini, the "Easy" Bikini, and the "Cross-Draw" Bikini. And that's just the Bikinis I couldn't fit in. I'm plannin' "4-Way" concealment holster that can be worn at 90 degrees strong-side, butt-forward strong-side, straight-up cross-draw, and butt-forward cross-draw, all from the same holster. But, I've got to get this pattern put to bed before I can do anything else, INCLUDIN' DEER HUNTIN'!
Well, it's dark out and I'm still not done with the text for the last page. But, I'm sure I can get it all done over the weekend. This pattern has already taken me twice as long to make as my normal patterns. I sure hope it sells well!
Will
Will if that pack is ready you can put me down for one. My Kimber sure would look good in that rig...
Will,
I think if they pick it up, it will sell VERY well. With this being the Centennial Year of the 1911, and with so many version of the 1911 out there, I dont see how it wouldnt sell well. There is not a lot of patterns for it, even though it is one of the most popular guns out there.
DM
Well, I hope you guys are right, because it's Monday morning and I still don't have it done. At least one more day in the salt mines. I'm workin' on the instructions for the Hugger holster and the early military pouch. Ug! It is so hard to figure out what people will need to know for construction, and what you can gloss-over. Then, everything has to be labeled...I've got seven pages of labels and instructions and I'm not done yet. Than, all that text has to be cut apart and applied to the patterns.
If I had $1200 dollars and the time to learn how to use the software, I could buy a program that would allow me to apply the text directly to the scanned patterns. However, I live in the stone-age where everything is still cut-and-paste.
Will
Wednesday morning and I'm still not done with laying out the pattern pages yet. The good news is I will for sure be done today and get it down to the blueprint shop! I also had room for a bikini holster, so I'll have one of those in there as a bonus.
Then, I start on laying out the envelope pages. That should go a lot quicker, though I need to take new photos of each of the prototypes for the front of the envelope.
My early muzzle loading season starts Friday. I've got to get my camping gear packed, make sure I don't have any new leaks in my dugout canoe, and I'll be off for three days for my camping deer hunt. Guaranteed good time, but no guarantee on meat-gettin'.
Will
Added a photo of the "Weeping Heart Bikini".
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Well thats just tooo cool Will. I bet the ladies will like that.
DM
Yeah, I'll have to make one for my wife for Valentine's Day. I should probably put a 1911 in it too just to make it a special occasion. I got the patterns down to the blueprint shop and they are already scanned. Now for the new photos and the envelope covers...
Will
Did some draw and fire exercises with my R1 1911 today, using my new El Paso Saddlery "1930 Austin".
Lovely workmanship on the holster, but it suffers from the same problem that a lot of 1911 holsters are plagued with - it's difficult to get a proper grip on the gun during a draw. The gun but needs to be higher, even for my small hand.
I know it's an authentic design, but it needs an update. I had them dispense with the security strap and install a keeper thong like on a revolver holster. I can push that aside and the holster has plenty of retention for anything other than a wrestling match with a bear.
I modified an unlined 'Wild K' Triple K design to raise the gun butt and I find it offers a better grip on the gun during a draw.
Got the mockup of the envelope cover done. Now, the back cover.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html
Will
Will it's looking good. Can't wait to pick it up when it comes out. Thanks for the hard work.
;D :) ;D :) ;D :o
If there was a party smiley, I would have it up there. Way to go Will. It looks great.
Now, how about a pattern pack for Nagants and Enfield/Webleys? ;) Just joking... Take some time and go huntin...
DM
Hey Dalton, I'll do that. I got the back cover done last night after I fed the two youngest boys. Got it sent off to my printer in Texas. After I get the quotes, I can pitch it to TLF. But, till then, I've done everything that can be done. I'm packin' my kit this mornin' and I'm off for the woods.
Thanks for all your support boys!
Will
The 1911 pattern has been sent to TLF. We'll see if they pick up the pattern or not. Meanwhile, I've put the prototypes on my "Spring Cleaning" page for liquidation, as well as another rig I've had on hand.
http://www.willghormley-maker.com/SpringSale.html
Now we just have to wait and see. If TLF doesn't pick up the pattern, they'll be available on my website.
Will
I didn't want this one to slip out of sight without some update. Any word from Tandy yet? Can you guys tell that I am chomping at the bits for this set?
SB,
I was going to post the same thing last night, but just didnt get time...
Your not alone... ;D ;)
DM
I am alos waiting to hear....great minds think alike ;D
Yeah, me too, I can't wait for the pattern to be available....either from tandy, or from will himself. I will be a coustomer for sure....especially since I just got one of those prototypes for myself ;D ;D ;D :D
Hey Guys,
I didn't want to say anything until it was a done deal. At this point I don't have a P.O. in hand to start printing, but TLF has indicated they want the 1911 pattern. They are also interested in looking at the "Hand of God", having me present them with a "Flames of Hell" pattern, are taking a look at the "Johnny Ringo" pattern (including manufacturing the conchos themselves). They also want me to put my moccasin patterns into a more conventional format for them, as well as make a John Wayne, "El Dorado" pattern for them to look at.
In my spare time (ha!), I've been workin' on modern carry holster designs too. I'm not sure how I want to put that pattern pack together. I'm kind'a leanin' towards one pattern of holster designed and sized for the most popular pistols. Might have to do something like small, medium, and large frame autos, the same with revolvers. The problem there comes in if there is a thumb release built into the holster. The holster may fit 1911s, M9s, and High Powers, but the length of the restraining strap is different for all three. I've got to work on those designs more. Anyway, when I figure that out, that will be something TLF will be lookin' at too.
So, there ya have it. The official update: nuthin' is set in stone but there is a lot of interest. I don't know if folks have been clamoring for new patterns, or the trend in this new economy is to save money by doin' it yourself and TLF is lookin' to fill that market. We'll all find out together.
Will
Hey Will, that sounds great. Really hope they want to take them all. I'm very intressted of the 1911 and the Flames of Hell pattern.
I will cross my fingers for you pard.
I tried to buy the Hand of God at my local Tandy, not knowing at the time that it was not carried by them. Seems like a no-brainer. Hollywood tie in and one of the nicest holsters ever brought out in a pattern, and also not too difficult to do on the leather side of thing, though the carving is up for grabs and depends what a person can bring. BUt anyway, I was looking to buy them at Tandy.
The Tandy stuff is focused to a south west or biker look. They are adding steam punk and other looks all the time, but those two are the bulk of it. Any chance to tie into the broader culture while staying with their roots is brilliant.
Any idea if Tandy has decided to sell the pattern?
I suspect that we will be waiting a little longer on the word.
Now for the bad news, I think. On the mag pouch listed as competition model, as I am now reading the WB rules I see there is something about mags must hang straight. I have not asked for anything official but these do have a bit of a slant, forming a V. Will might need to look into this if it isn't to late for a change.
The last I heard from TLF, (last week), they are interested in the 1911, Hand of God, Flames of Hell, and Johnny Ringo rigs. The Ringo rig will be offered with stock TLF conchos. I'm tryin' to get the Flames of Hell pattern done this week and shipped off to Fort Worth. Finished the prototype for the envelope photos last night. Now I have to label everything, write whatever instructions need to be included, do some sketches and put it all together. Just not enough hours in the day.
Will
Oh, I cant wait for the Flames of hell, love that holster. When you say stock TLF conchos for the Ringo rig, does that means that if I want the Good stuf I have to order them from you Will ???
BTW, thanx for the scabbard pattern ;)
Hey BB,
That's what it means. I offered TLF the Ringo conchos, but they didn't want to add them to their inventory at this time. They may reconsider if enough folks ask for 'em.
Will
What the heck, they cant make the Ringo rig without the real stuf. I think that we all shell ask for the real conchos so they take them in stock. I know that I will.
But if they took them into their stock, would they be as nice of a concho as what we get from Will?
If they turn into the cheaper made conchos, will you still offer the good ones, Will?
DM
No, I buy the best ones. I was thinking that they would buy Wills chonchos.
If TLF does add the Ringo Conchos to their inventory, they would be made overseas and would be less expensive. I will continue to offer the conchos I make until TLF offers something accurate that is as good. I think next time I have the conchos made, I'll ask for Chicago Screw backs. That would make the conchos more expensive, but they would be easier to use. I suggested to TLF that if they do adopt the conchos they add Chicago Screws. They could do it without adding too much extra expense.
Will
Thats good to hear!
DM
Heard from TLF late yesterday. By the time the patterns work their way through the process, the printing, and distribution, it will most likely be after the first of the year before they are available. The good news is, it looks like they are on their way, (nutnin' set in stone till I have the P.O.s in my hands!).
Will
That's great, Will. I'm happy for you. Skeet
Will that is good news. I'm sure your happy after all the hard work. Can't wait to get a set.
Hey Wolf Tracker,
I'll be happy when the check's been cashed, and I've changed the greenbacks into somethin' with real value, like cold steel and lead. Till then, it's all just smoke...
Will
Just got the word from TLF. In February 2012, you'll be able to pick up:
1911 100th Anniversary Pattern
Hand of God Rig Pattern
Flames of Hell Rig Pattern
Johnny Ringo Rig Pattern
El Dorado, (John Wayne) Rig Pattern
So, stop by your local Tandy Leather Store in February.
Will
Hand of God rig Pattern - YES!!!
Are they selling your Moccasin pattern packs there too?
Slickshot
Well, let me be the first one here to say CONGRATS ;D . I will be ordering a few of those from you when they come out. I know you have been working hard on them, and at last it has worked out for ya. Well done.
Matt
Thanks guys!
Slickshot, TLF intends to pick up the moc patterns when I re-work them into a multi-size format like the rest of their moc patterns. Ill start workin' on that project when I get some of the other things I'm workin' on out of the way.
Will
Got my 1911 pack yesterday. The last one they had at the Beechnut Store in Houston. Man they went fast.
Thanks Will the patterns look great!