Bein' new to the world of shotguns, when I received my new Bounty Hunter II SxS 12 gauge, it came with a plastic insert that appears to go into the barrel??? :o
Now I know this is more n' likely a real dumb question, but... what's it for??? ???
In the breach or the muzzle?
Slim
Sorry Slim, it's actually metal. I'll get a pic & post it here real quick! ;)
Wooooweeee! Badlands you can ask some real posers! I'm going to hazard a guess that the insert has nothing to do with shooting. I'd guess it was just a protection device that was placed in the gun for shipping? My question on this is....is your scattergun a double barrel, or single? Was there one of these divices in each barrel? I'm guessing it's a sleeve to protect the bore?
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:07:31 PM
it came with a plastic insert that appears to go into the barrel???
Mebbe this thing got put in the package by mistake. Y'know Badlands, lots of things will
go into a shotgun barrel, but the list of things that are
supposed to is pretty short. :D
OK Slim, here's a couple of pics! It appears to be threaded as well & is definatley metal. I'm sure the gun game with a book, but I cain't seem to locate it? ::)
It reads on the side of it: IC (0,25) Lead
It's a CHOKE !
"IC" stands for "improved cylinder," which means "just a little bit of choking."
Install that, and it'll tighten your shotgun pattern, and make it easier to miss the targets. ;D
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:19:52 PM
OK Slim, here's a couple of pics! It appears to be threaded as well & is definatley metal. I'm sure the gun game with a book, but I cain't seem to locate it? ::)
It reads on the side of it: IC (0,25) Lead
Chokes?
Quote from: The Arapaho Kid on August 02, 2005, 12:17:41 PM
Wooooweeee! Badlands you can ask some real posers! I'm going to hazard a guess that the insert has nothing to do with shooting. I'd guess it was just a protection device that was placed in the gun for shipping? My question on this is....is your scattergun a double barrel, or single? Was there one of these divices in each barrel? I'm guessing it's a sleeve to protect the bore?
I don't have a clue pard? It came in the box with a metal "T" lookin' thing as well. :o
OK, so fer' cowboy shootin', I need not concern myself with this object? :o :D
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:22:38 PM
Quote from: The Arapaho Kid on August 02, 2005, 12:17:41 PM
Wooooweeee! Badlands you can ask some real posers! I'm going to hazard a guess that the insert has nothing to do with shooting. I'd guess it was just a protection device that was placed in the gun for shipping? My question on this is....is your scattergun a double barrel, or single? Was there one of these divices in each barrel? I'm guessing it's a sleeve to protect the bore?
I don't have a clue pard? It came in the box with a metal "T" lookin' thing as well. :o
Here's another S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) from Arapaho. The "T" device sounds like some sort of a special tool for working on the gun ??? ???
There are two tiny slots on this "choke" thing & it appears as the "T" might fit that??? :o
This is my first shotgun ever pards, I ain't got a clue! ;)
Now, when I was a little feller, my Dad would load his shotgun & just hand it to me. That's my extent of shotgun knowledge. ;)
I won't tell the story of what happened when I shot my first shotgun as a little feller! :D
So, iffn' I'm readin' y'all correctly, this "choke" thing goes into the end of the barrel to make the shot pattern smaller? The confusion here is this! It's a SxS double barrel 12 gauge, so why would they send only one? ???
Here we go. It is a threaded choke tube that goes into the muzzle. There should be one in the muzzle of each barrel. One should be full choke and one modified choke. The EAA's come with three choke tubes, IC, M, and F. The T bar is to get the tubes out if ya can't unscrew them with your fingers. You should not tight the choke with the T bar, just your fingers. I would take out the full choke and put in the IC for CAS.
Slim
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:36:58 PM
So, iffn' I'm readin' y'all correctly, this "choke" thing goes into the end of the barrel to make the shot pattern smaller? The confusion here is this! It's a SxS double barrel 12 gauge, so why would they send only one? ???
Badlands.......you gotta find the "Drivers Manual" for that scattergun!
Quote from: The Arapaho Kid on August 02, 2005, 12:39:50 PM
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:36:58 PM
So, iffn' I'm readin' y'all correctly, this "choke" thing goes into the end of the barrel to make the shot pattern smaller? The confusion here is this! It's a SxS double barrel 12 gauge, so why would they send only one? ???
Badlands.......you gotta find the "Drivers Manual" for that scattergun!
I guess I may have to look one up on the internet. I looked in the box & no manual? >:(
Quote from: Silver Creek Slim on August 02, 2005, 12:39:06 PM
Here we go. It is a threaded choke tube that goes into the muzzle. There should be one in the muzzle of each barrel. One should be full choke and one modified choke. The EAA's come with three choke tubes, IC, M, and F. The T bar is to get the tubes out if ya can't unscrew them with your fingers. You should not tight the choke with the T bar, just your fingers. I would take out the full choke and put in the IC for CAS.
Slim
Well, I'll be! You was absolutely right Slim. ;)
I took a look at the ends of the barrel & sure enough, there was the other two! I took out the "choke" marked "F" and put in the one I just showed ya! 8)
I sure do appreciate that pard! I hate not knowin' what I'm doin' or lookin' stupid at a shoot! ;) I owe ya one pard!
Here's what I bought fer' shot, as recommended by a few pards!
Fer' CAS, I got: AA Light Target Load
Fer' protecttion at home, I got: #1 Lead Shot Loads
Sound about right? 8)
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:55:42 PM
Here's what I bought fer' shot, as recommended by a few pards!
Fer' CAS, I got: AA Light Target Load
Fer' protecttion at home, I got: #1 Lead Shot Loads
Sound about right? 8)
Sounds good.
Here is the link for the manual.
http://www.eaacorp.com/Manuals/IZH-43-Manual.PDF
BTW, I own two of these shotguns.
Slim
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:52:01 PM
Quote from: Silver Creek Slim on August 02, 2005, 12:39:06 PM
Here we go. It is a threaded choke tube that goes into the muzzle. There should be one in the muzzle of each barrel. One should be full choke and one modified choke. The EAA's come with three choke tubes, IC, M, and F. The T bar is to get the tubes out if ya can't unscrew them with your fingers. You should not tight the choke with the T bar, just your fingers. I would take out the full choke and put in the IC for CAS.
Slim
Well, I'll be! You was absolutely right Slim. ;)
I took a look at the ends of the barrel & sure enough, there was the other two! I took out the "choke" marked "F" and put in the one I just showed ya! 8)
I sure do appreciate that pard! I hate not knowin' what I'm doin' or lookin' stupid at a shoot! ;) I owe ya one pard!
I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I asked questions and read alot on the CAS boards. Now, I am smarter than I used to be. I am here to help. ;)
Slim
Quote from: Silver Creek Slim on August 02, 2005, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:55:42 PM
Here's what I bought fer' shot, as recommended by a few pards!
Fer' CAS, I got: AA Light Target Load
Fer' protecttion at home, I got: #1 Lead Shot Loads
Sound about right? 8)
Sounds good.
Here is the link for the manual.
http://www.eaacorp.com/Manuals/IZH-43-Manual.PDF
BTW, I own two of these shotguns.
Slim
Dang Slim, that is mighty neighborly of ya pard. Thanks a bunch! ;)
So, I guess if ya owns two of these, they must be a good shotgun? 8)
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: Silver Creek Slim on August 02, 2005, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 12:55:42 PM
Here's what I bought fer' shot, as recommended by a few pards!
Fer' CAS, I got: AA Light Target Load
Fer' protecttion at home, I got: #1 Lead Shot Loads
Sound about right? 8)
Sounds good.
Here is the link for the manual.
http://www.eaacorp.com/Manuals/IZH-43-Manual.PDF
BTW, I own two of these shotguns.
Slim
Dang Slim, that is mighty neighborly of ya pard. Thanks a bunch! ;)
So, I guess if ya owns two of these, they must be a good shotgun? 8)
Yep for the price. They are workhorses. They tend to not stay open when they are new. They need a bit of breaking in, but all in all they are a good gun. BTW, EAA is no longer importing them. Remington and Savage are now importing them.
Slim
Well, truth be known... I been a cowboy and civil war re-enactor off n' on now for about 15 years & I'm new to this CAS shootin'. Don't get me wrong, I been shootin' guns & havin' guns most of my life, but never done any CAS shootin'. I spend a lot of time at the range & shootin' here at the ranch, but have yet to shoot my first cowboy match. :-[
I've got most of the guns now & need to get out & practice with this shotgun. Soon as I feel I'm ready with the shotgun, I look forward to my first match up in Midland with a pard who has invited me on several occasions. I'll only be about 90 minutes away there in San Angelo & cain't wait! Yee-Haw! ;) :D
I got just one problem though! My two favorite guns to shoot are, #1. Ruger Blackhawk .45LC & #2. my Cattleman Flat-Top Bisley .45LC and they both have adjustable sights. From what I been learnin' & readin', you cain't shoot in all matches with these two? ???
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:11:25 PM
Well, truth be known... I been a cowboy and civil war re-enactor off n' on now for about 15 years & I'm new to this CAS shootin'. Don't get me wrong, I been shootin' guns & havin' guns most of my life, but never done any CAS shootin'. I spend a lot of time at the range & shootin' here at the ranch, but have yet to shoot my first cowboy match. :-[
I've got most of the guns now & need to get out & practice with this shotgun. Soon as I feel I'm ready with the shotgun, I look forward to my first match up in Midland with a pard who has invited me on several occasions. I'll only be about 90 minutes away there in San Angelo & cain't wait! Yee-Haw! ;) :D
Good luck, pard.
This is my 4th year in CAS. It is very addictive. I owned two pistols, a shotgun, and a couple rifles fer I started CAS. Now, I have to sit down and count how many CAS guns I have. ;D
Slim
I'm hopin' to make "World Champ", in about a hundred years! :D
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:15:37 PM
I got just one problem though! My two favorite guns to shoot are, #1. Ruger Blackhawk .45LC & #2. my Cattleman Flat-Top Bisley .45LC and they both have adjustable sights. From what I been learnin' & readin', you cain't shoot in all matches with these two? ???
You can shoot them in the Modern class of SASS sanctioned/affiliated matches. The Blackhawk is a no-no for NCOWS though.
Slim
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:19:37 PM
I'm hopin' to make "World Champ", in about a hundred years! :D
That's a good goal. ;) It will take me a bit longer to do that. ::)
Slim
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:19:37 PM
I'm hopin' to make "World Champ", in about a hundred years! :D
Badlands: This is a good goal to shoot for (no pun intended). I'm going to have to get with SASS and change my alias from 'The Arapaho Kid" to "The Bottom of the Barrel Kid". Every match I've shot in, so far, I won the coveted bottom the barrel position. But.....
I HAD FUN GETTIN' THERE!
Quote from: The Arapaho Kid on August 02, 2005, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:19:37 PM
I'm hopin' to make "World Champ", in about a hundred years! :D
Badlands: This is a good goal to shoot for (no pun intended). I'm going to have to get with SASS and change my alias from 'The Arapaho Kid" to "The Bottom of the Barrel Kid". Every match I've shot in, so far, I won the coveted bottom the barrel position. But.....I HAD FUN GETTIN' THERE!
That's the whole idea Kid... the FUN! 8)
Hell, iffn' i never even come close to bein' a champ, I'll have a great time tryin'! ;)
Quote from: Silver Creek Slim on August 02, 2005, 01:21:14 PM
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 01:19:37 PM
I'm hopin' to make "World Champ", in about a hundred years! :D
That's a good goal. ;) It will take me a bit longer to do that. ::)
Slim
Well, way I got er' figured... all ya need is lots of practice & about $10,000 for ammo to get ya there! ;) :D
Hey, Arapaho...the slower you shoot, the more time ya get to spend at the firin' line, having fun!
I notice I have moved up the ranking order from the bottom, but only because a few newbies have come in behind me. I'm down to where I generally miss no more than one per stage, but I'm still godawful slow. Oh, well. ::)
Slim and BW, SASS rules allow you to shoot revolvers with adjustable sights in any age-based class (49er, junior, Senior, Elder Statesman). The only place you can't use them is in Classic Cowboy, Frontier Cartridge and related ones.
IMO, SASS needs to re-organize its shooting categories. If you look at the entire list of categories, there are far too many, and they are not mutually exclusive.
Well, IMHO... there is really only three catagories! 8)
#1. Big Guns. - .40, .44, .45, rifles & shotguns, etc...
#2. Little Guns. - .22, .32, .36, rifles, etc...
#3. Black Powder. - All Types.
Other than these three, everythin' else is simply a waste of time! ;)
what do you meen ??? I only see two options, and they are combined into one
Big blackpowder guns
Quote from: Qball on August 02, 2005, 03:07:39 PM
what do you meen ??? I only see two options, and they are combined into one
Big blackpowder guns
Now, I included y'all in the black powder world! After all, black powder was some of the first guns ever invented, unless ya count the bow & arrow! :D
Halelujaa ;)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4539/sassmarysville313050834rl.jpg)
My scattergun is a Russian made Baikal. 8 pounds, double barrel, visable hammers and it kicks like a Mule! I put 8 ounces of number 9 birdshot in the buttstock and when I shoot it, I wear a strap on recoil pad under my shirt. I also shoot BP and it makes one helluva smoke cloud and it's great fun to shoot!
Well Hell Kid, mine is Russion made as well. Yep, mine kicks like a mule too! :o
Dang! I hate that part! ;)
Quote from: Badlands Walker on August 02, 2005, 06:48:14 PM
Well Hell Kid, mine is Russion made as well. Yep, mine kicks like a mule too! :o
Dang! I hate that part! ;)
Badlands: For a kicking scattergun there are several things you can do that don't cost. Pull off your butt plate. If there is a quarter sized hole in the stock....dump in about 6 to 8 ounces of #9 birdshot. Don't fill it all the way up. That shot has got to slop around in there a little. Then put the butt plate back on. The shot acts as a shock absorber. 2. Use target ammo, trap and skeet loads. 3. Find a strap on recoil pad and wear it
under your shirt when you shoot. 4. Use Black Powder loads. If push comes to shove you can take it to a gun shop and have one of those recoil drvices installed.
I might add....Black Powder scattergun loads and a helluva lotta fun to shoot. BP burns slower so there's less recoil with it and they make one helluva smoke cloud!
Think I'll just have to give that BP a try out! Thanks for the info Kid! ;)
Another dumb question on shotguns iffn' y'all don't mind! What iffn' I took the "chokes" completely out of the barrels? ???
Badlands: Take those chokes out iffen you can. The purpose of a choke is to keep your shot bunched up and it will narrow down your spread pattern. Iffen that happens.....missed targets. I think the original purpose of the choke was to keep your shot bunched up, thereby getting more shot on target for a flying bird? My scattergun came with no chokes and I can knock over three scattergun targets with a single blast. In one shoot there was a four target stage. I took them all out with one double blast...both barrels at once. I did a hip shot on that one. Kinda aimed at center mass and cut both barrels loose at once. All four targets went down.
So you don't wanta have those chokes in your scattergun.
Badlands: Here's where I get my ammo. They have BP ammo in rifle/pistol shells and scattergun rounds. They are fairly cheap and the turn around time is good. Check out this place.
http://www.ammodirect.com/index.htm
WHOA!!!!! :o
Don't run that thang without the choke tubes in it!!!!!!!! Doing so will ruin the threads, and ultimately wreak any chance of a decent pattern! No to mention destroying any resale value the gun might have! It's even remotely possible to get some plastic wad hung in them threads, not likely but possible, creating a bore obstruction situation!!!! :o
If ya wanna shoot a gun with no choke then go purchase some cylinder bore choke tubes fer that thang, or take yer current set to a smith and have him ream/polish them out to cylinder bore....But fer Gawds sake, don' run it wifout em!
Ya beat me to the draw, Cuts Crooked.
I wanted to say that!!!!
MG
Quote from: Cuts Crooked on August 03, 2005, 07:31:34 PM
WHOA!!!!! :o
Don't run that thang without the choke tubes in it!!!!!!!! Doing so will ruin the threads, and ultimately wreak any chance of a decent pattern! No to mention destroying any resale value the gun might have! It's even remotely possible to get some plastic wad hung in them threads, not likely but possible, creating a bore obstruction situation!!!! :o
If ya wanna shoot a gun with no choke then go purchase some cylinder bore choke tubes fer that thang, or take yer current set to a smith and have him ream/polish them out to cylinder bore....But fer Gawds sake, don' run it wifout em!
Dang! I totally forgot about the threads in the bore, so Plan B would be.....Load up and fire at a large sheet of paper from about 20 feet and see where your shot is going and how big the pattern is. As I recall most scattergun targets on the stages are about 15 to 20 feet away...give or take a few feet??? If you know how big your pattern is at a certain distance...that'll help you hit more targets.
QuoteBP burns slower so there's less recoil with it and they make one helluva smoke cloud!
Where did you hear that from? Fact is, BP is "extremely" fast burning. Its an "explosive" Ain't no such thing as "slow burnin'" BP.
Quote from: Pukin Dog on August 04, 2005, 08:00:21 PM
QuoteBP burns slower so there's less recoil with it and they make one helluva smoke cloud!
Where did you hear that from? Fact is, BP is "extremely" fast burning. Its an "explosive" Ain't no such thing as "slow burnin'" BP.
I have been told by several people that BP burns slower than smokeless and that's why there's less kick from them than smokeless rounds.
PD,
Yup BP is slower than most smokeless powders. And incredible though it may seem...it also burns cooler! (the reason it seems to heat up guns so much more than smokeless is because of the longer "impulse time" of the burn which puts the burning materials in contact with the metal for a longer period.
Check with Bill Knight on this one! He explains it better than I do.
Yeah! I didn't figure taken out the chokes all together was a good move! I'll just go down & get me another F-choke & put er' in. 8)
I assume the "F" means full choke? Wide open bore? :-\
Badlands,
I think full mean that it keeps the shot together to reach further, what you may want is IC (Improved Cylinder) which lets it spread a little faster for what we are doing in coyboy shooting, if I am wrong I am sure that we have others here tlhat will steer us in the right direction.
Old Top
The order of chokes from biggest pattern to smallest is
Open (or cylinder)
Skeet
Improved Cylinder
Modified
Improved Modified
Full
Extra Full or Turkey
For CAS usually bigger is better so a Cylinder or Skeet choke works best.
Man, now I'm really confused! :-\ :D
In reality choke is far more coplicated than most will admit. The markings really mean how much constrition a choke has, the ammunition has as much to do with is as how much smaller the muzzle end is compared to the bore. With the right ammo a gun can shoot much tighter or looser that what is printed on the barrel or choke.
The only real way to know anything about yer shotgun is to shoot it on paper and find out if it shoots to center and has they type of pattern that is needed for the job to be done. It has always amazed me when folks will spend time getting a rifle to shoot where they want but treat a shotgun like it is a water hose with a nozzle on the end.
Generally with lead shot as opposed to steel shot the full choke is 0.030 of an inch smaller than bore diameter.
Improved modified is 0.025 under bore bore diameter, modified choke is 0.020 under bore, improved cylinder is 0.010 under bore diameter and skeet is 0.005 under bore diameter.
This is only true for guns set up for modern plastic shells with plastic wadding. Older guns built befrore plastic wadding generally shoot tighet with these shell than mark, chokes made for steel shot will shoot looser with plastic wadded lead shot.
Also the velocity of the shell and the hardness of the shot will affect the pattern. Often iven the brand of wads and powder will affect the pattern.
Sorry if you don't test that shotgun on paper you have no idea if it does what you want.
I wish I had a dollar for everyone who complaimns about how their shotgun works but when you ask they ain't never shot it on paper.
I move up from confused to, now completely out in left field! :D
All these stats give me a headache! I think I'll do as suggested & get me some paper targets! ;)
What paper targets do you recommend? 25 feet, 50 feet, etc...
BW:
Delmonico is right on the money. The problem is that some, a lot, most folks don't have access to a patterning board (paper). Sooo, if you're gonna shoot CAS, use Cylinder "C" or Improved Cylinder "IC". Anything else and you can have your choice of the other chokes depending on what you're aiming for or at.
Best,
Derby Younger
Duelist is Coolest
Would this target do the trick at say... 25 feet?
Yep.
Keep ypur head on the stock and put the front bead on the center.
Much obliged pard! I'll be out testin' the shotgun in the mornin'! ;)
Test at the range you are going to be shooting at. A lage sheet of paper with an aiming spot is all that is needed. Shoot at the spot, the center of the patern should be at that point. Now cut a piece of clear or tranlusent plastic the size and shpe of the target you want to hit, kill or knock down or cut a pice of cardboard the same size. Lay yer plastic on the aiming point or trace around the cardboard. Now look, did you put enought shot on the target to do what you want? That is the simple Delmonico way of patterning.
Badlands, to make it easier to remember, Full means a LOT of choke, so the end of the barrel will be narrower and the pattern will be tighter. Open means NO choke, so the pattern will be wider.
The SASS handbook recommends a 16x16 inch target placed at 8 to 16 yards.
You don't have to go out and buy a special target. You can use brown wrapping paper cut to size. The problem is most public ranges don't have any kind of set up under 25 yards, so a 16"x 16" target won't work for you.
You can take the brown paper, which can be easily found at 36" widths, and cut several squares of it, then use the 25 yard range, trying out different chokes. That will give you your patterns and a good idea of how your shotgun is shooting.
Just a thought,
AnnieLee
A 16"X16" at 8 to 16 yards, heck, if yas miss that ya get the white cane award. My grandpa whould a whooped my but fer wastin' a shot shell on a stading target. Sould be 4"X 4" and moving at least 25 mph. Heck who would need to care about choke at that range, a sugger full should be inpossible to miss at that range.