Back in the 70's ,I cast 54 Cal Sharps Conicals for my Percussion Carbine & Mil. Rifle
I hand loaded( literally) 50 cal. Bell Brass for my Spencer ( all I had was Lee hand held capper )
up till now, I shyed away and reisisted the temptation to load for WAS...BUT yesterday :o I got sticker shock..
My friendly Gun Shop now charges and may be getting $49.50 for box of Black Hills , 45Colt or 44 Spec or Colt :o
He had no 44/40 and said he was sold out, and it was backordered. :-\ Ultra max the same deal.
$49.50 ee yow wwwwwwwwwww with tax that's over a $1.00 a round ::) He would cut me a deal @ $39.95 if I bought the older stock before his cost rose :-X
The point: I'm running low on ammo ( maybe enough for 2-3 more shoots )
Guess it may be time for me to reload.
What do I need ? Tumbler ? single stage loader, die's, hand primer set w/ punch ?
Can you guys help with a shopping list and the best combo & one stop shopping source ? please :)
Plan to load 38 spcl. 44 Colt & spcl and 45 Colt... no sub's just BP & maybe smokeless from time to time ..
How did you make it this far without reloading?
You will get many suggestions on favorite brands, but almost all sources will give you reasonably good results. There are three levels of reloading set-ups;
1. VERY basic. I base my portable set-up on the LEE handpress. Alternative could be the Lyman 310 tong tool but these are hard to find and limited in that they take their own series of dies.
2. Single stage press. Most beginners start here. My RCBS press is 40 years old and still performing. They are capable of doing most anything, but can be slow and do require processing your loads in batches. The advantage for a beginner is that you can see exactly what is going on, and correct any glitches before a dangerous situation developes.
3. Progressive machines. These are capable of producing amazing quantities of great ammo. All are pricey, but some moreso. You get what you pay for and some experience is desireable before deciding on a set-up.
READ A LOT, and a mentor is very valuable.
Quote from: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on April 02, 2011, 10:07:12 AM
How did you make it this far without reloading?
You will get many suggestions on favorite brands, but almost all sources will give you reasonably good results. There are three levels of reloading set-ups;
1. VERY basic. I base my portable set-up on the LEE handpress. Alternative could be the Lyman 310 tong tool but these are hard to find and limited in that they take their own series of dies.
2. Single stage press. Most beginners start here. My RCBS press is 40 years old and still performing. They are capable of doing most anything, but can be slow and do require processing your loads in batches. The advantage for a beginner is that you can see exactly what is going on, and correct any glitches before a dangerous situation developes.
3. Progressive machines. These are capable of producing amazing quantities of great ammo. All are pricey, but some moreso. You get what you pay for and some experience is desireable before deciding on a set-up.
READ A LOT, and a mentor is very valuable.
+! on #2. But your single stage RCBS is practically brand new! Mine is going on its 51st year. It is an RCBS Model B, Jr. press. I've loaded everything from 6mm Remington to .56-56 Spencer Center Fire. I do have to replace the rubber bands that hold the spent primer catcher once in awhile. ;) I guess the Rockchucker is the current model. I certainly reccomend a beginner go with a single stage press, and definitely buy the Lyman #48 loading manual, and the Speer manual as well. Read the front parts before attempting to buy the press, die, etc. I do recommend RCBS equipment, though others prefer other equipment.
IMHO the best low cost starter set up is the Lee Classic Turret, can be used as a single stage or turret. The heads are very inexpensive making caliber change a snap. The Lee web site has a video of each step to help get things set up right. Kempf's Gun Shop has everything thing you need to get started, press, dies, Hornady One Shot case lube, tumbler kit, scales, reloading manuals, dippers, funnel, etc....If you do decide to go with the Lee make sure to include "both upgrades", well worth it. You'll need dippers if you plan to hand dip, or the double disk kit if you use the Pro Auto measure. You're gonna save a ton of money reloading yer own. Give Kempf a call, they can walk you through it. Good Luck :)
Lee Classic Turret Kit (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=26&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Modern Relaoding (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=617&category_id=22&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Extra Turret (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=618&category_id=196&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Tumbler Combo (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=257&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Hornady One Shot (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5&category_id=9&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Scale (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=616&category_id=29&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Dies (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=297&category_id=96&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Dippers, Double Disk Kit, Elec Scales (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=29&Itemid=41)
Lyman 49th (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=374&category_id=11&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Jefro
Don't know how old my RCBS jr is, bought it used in 1980. Had a major problem about 9 years ago, the blanky blank handle broke, RCBS didn't have one in stock an more since mine was the older model. So the sent me (free of charge) the whole durn linkage set so it's now as good as new. BTW I've loaded I'd guess 100,000 rounds on it. Used to pay for my hobby doing work for a friend who was a comercial loader. ;D
Sir Charles... I'd had guy that reloaded..I'd give him my brass ...and pay him :)
he's cut way back, to the point he's not really interested in doing it anymore.
I either need to find another reloader or do it myself :-\
+1 to Jefro.
Lee Classic Turret is a great place to start. It's not much more expensive than the Lee single stage press (and actually cheaper than other brand's single stage presses.)
A turret press is MUCH MUCH faster than a single stage, it works terrific with pistol ammo, and changing dies takes about 5 seconds.
Also +1 to Sir Charles.
He gave a good summary of your options. I just want to add a bit. I've never used a Lee Hand Press, but they're CHEAP, and if you do decide to move to a bench mounted press, you'll already have the dies. Also Lee makes the Lee Classic Loader. They're cheap, and the only tool you need is a mallet. (Between the 2, the Lee Classic Loader is cheaper, but you can't upgrade.)
There's definitely some up-front cost, but you'll save end up saving 75-80% on your ammo costs. So, it doesn't take long at all before the equipment's paid for itself.
Quote from: Major 2 on April 02, 2011, 08:33:30 PM
Sir Charles... I'd had guy that reloaded..I'd give him my brass ...and pay him :)
he cut way back, to the point he not really interested in do it anymore.
I either need to find another reloader or do it myself :-\
DIY! 8)
That's why I'm a asking... :)
spect that's what I'll do...at some point soon
Gonna look at Cabela's maybe not so much for buying seeing in one place what the difference's are.
I have Jefro's and your guide above .... but it's still gonna be a learning curve :-\
M2 might be of help might not, but see my querie on tumblers in The Darksiders Den. :) WM
A friend of mine is just getting into Cowboy action and we were just looking at options. My recommendation would be the RCBS Master reloading kit if you can swing it. Everything you need and it comes with the speer loading manual which walks you through reloading from the basics. You can't go wrong with the RCBS.
I bought a kit similar to this years ago when I started loading, only difference is mine came with the original rock chucker press and the current spear manual at the time.
I also have one of the RC Supreme presses like comes with the current kit and it is just as good as the original rock chucker.
You might shop around for the best price, Cabelas has it for 319.
Even if you move to a progressive press at some point you will need many of the items that come with the kit. The progressive is nice once you've got a load all figured out and want to make a bunch but everyone needs a single stage for working up loads or whatever. I've seen people start out by running out and buying a Dillion right off the bat and then don't have powder scales and nick nacks necessary in order to set up a load.
I dont care for the Lee presses but they have good dies. Get the carbide dies for pistol ammo.
Quote from: Cliff Fendley on April 03, 2011, 07:56:03 AM
I dont care for the Lee presses but they have good dies. Get the carbide dies for pistol ammo.
Boy-Howdy Do I Second That On Carbide Dies!!!
" My recommendation would be the RCBS Master reloading kit if you can swing it. Everything you need and it comes with the speer loading manual which walks you through reloading from the basics. You can't go wrong with the RCBS.....
You might shop around for the best price, Cabelas has it for 319..."
So Everything for $319 ? did I read that right ?
I have to look at that
I still use my antique Dillon 450 Press. I'd have to guess that I've loaded cost to a 1/4 of a million rounds on it. I loaded for 4 Police Agencies, practice and qualification loads. I've loaded CAS rounds on it for 13 years, for 10 years of that I was shooting 300-400 rounds a month not counting practice stuff. I've worn parts out and Dillon replaces them, no charge. Dillon has an 800 number, if you need something or break something just call'm.
Go find a guy who reloads, someone who's been doing it for many years. Have him teach you how to reload straight wall cases, starting out that's all you need to know.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANY RELOADING DATA OTHER THAN THAT YOU FIND IN MANUALS OF THE MAJOR COMPONENT MAKERS, AT LEAST NOT FOR THE FIRST 10 YEARS OR SO.
Yes Major the RCBS master kit has about anything you need to load except for the dies and shellholder. Another thing nice about the RCBS hand primers is they use the same shellholder as the dies but you have to buy different ones to go with the Lee.
Besides them being good the Lee dies come with the shellholder. IMO buy the RCBS equipment and Lee carbide dies for the best bang for your buck. You'll have equipment your grandkids grandkids will be using.
I can't say anything but good stuff about Dillion and I have a 550B myself but IMO everyone needs a good single stage press and you need the powder scales and other things to be able to check the loads when setting up a Dillion. Even though progressive presses do it all once set up you still have to be able to measure what your settings are. Even though I have the Dillion for rounds I shoot quite a bit I use my RCBS rock chucker for working up loads and for doing all of my hunting and rifle ammo.
Quote from: Shotgun Franklin on April 03, 2011, 08:50:40 PM
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANY RELOADING DATA OTHER THAN THAT YOU FIND IN MANUALS OF THE MAJOR COMPONENT MAKERS, AT LEAST NOT FOR THE FIRST 10 YEARS OR SO.
So at what point do you really end up knowing more than the ballistictions who have a pressure lab at their finger tips? ::)
From Birdshot who works for Hodgdon, Dated Nov 9 2005.
QuoteHow about some thoughts from a ballistician who has a lab at his disposal?
1) There is no hard and fast way for anyone to predict exactly how a specific load will act in YOUR firearm. We do our load development in a standardized barrel with standardized MINIMUM chamber, throat and bore. We know that YOUR chamber. bore and throat are not going to give the same results.
2) Data supplied from a lab is nothing more than a report of what happened with one component set in one barrel in one set of conditions on one specific day. If we repeat the exact same test and change ANY variable, we will get a different answer.
3) A LARGE percentage of SASS/CAS shooters are new to the world of shooting and to reloading. A new reloader should always learn to load on a single stage press and should always follow the published loads.
4) Experienced loaders and shooters ( those who have worked with variations in components and conditions) MAY be able to get away with developing their own data. Developing data in a center fire rifle cartridge is pretty easy. Dealing with the very fast burning powders used in shotgun shells and handgun rounds can have devastating results.
5) The first reeliable sign of high pressure in a revolver load is when the firearm fails . Bad news for the shooter and all of those around him. Anyone who will tell you they can "read" primers and case expansion in pistol cartridges to tell the pressure is a danger and should be avoided. It cannot be done reliably.
6) AS noted above, the tendency of SASS/CAS shooters to load ultralight loads is stupid. The average shooter will not benefit from this. More energy spent training would be a far better investment for most shooters than trying to find the absolute lightest load.
7) A load that you have worked down to today may be great but it may well be a hazard when the ambient temperature drops. Primers are not as potent in the cold, the elasticity and plasticity of the case and primer change with the temperature. All handgun/shotgun powders will change ignition and burn characteristics as the temperature changes: some much more than others.
Cool You, the loader, are legally responsible for damage or injuries caused by your ammunition. Never give or sell your ammo to another shooter unless you are a licensed ammunition manufacturer with the BATF. Not only are you liable for injury but if you sell ammo without the license, you may serve time in the big house.
9) Loading your own ammo should be a safe and rewarding experience. Why go out of your way to make it difficult or dangerous. Use the loads supplied by a laboratory and have confidence that you have the best custom ammo around.
10) As far as not allowing loads to be posted on web sites goes, it will become more common. Most web sites are offered by good people with good intentions. Look at the owners of this site. BUT, they have other lives and are not prepared to review every load posted to make certain that no decimal is misplaced or that a crank has not knowingly placed a dangerous load on the site.
11) REMEMBER - IN THE REAL WORLD, THERE ARE VERY FEW EXPERTS ON LOAD DATA. THERE ARE CERTAINLY MORE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE AND LESS EXPERIENCED PEOPLE BUT FEW EXPERTS. ON THE INTERNET, WHERE PEOPLE CAN HIDE IN ANONIMITY, THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF FOLKS WHO WILL GIVE THEIR OPINION AS FACT.
OK, OFF MY SOAPBOX,
BIRDSHOT
I like some of the comments in Del's long post. Here are MY words interpreting them;
There are few experts (on forums?) just folks with more experience and some with less. ???
...Hiding in anonymity... ???
...Providing opinion as fact.... ???
We all bear responsibility for our words and have to take care.
Quote from: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on April 04, 2011, 09:47:34 AM
I like some of the comments in Del's long post. Here are MY words interpreting them;
There are few experts (on forums?) just folks with more experience and some with less. ???
...Hiding in anonymity... ???
...Providing opinion as fact.... ???
We all bear responsibility for our words and have to take care.
Well said, one can work between the minimums and maximums in lab tested loading data, but to go over or under is never a good idea. Used to be everyone wanted to go over max for more power, today a lot want to go under minimum for less recoil. These Nitro powders have to stay with in certain pressure ranges to burn right, if you want more power get a bigger cartridge, if you want less then you need a smaller one.
Quote from: Cliff Fendley on April 04, 2011, 07:33:18 AM
Yes Major the RCBS master kit has about anything you need to load except for the dies and shellholder. Another thing nice about the RCBS hand primers is they use the same shellholder as the dies but you have to buy different ones to go with the Lee.
That was true for the old Lee Auto-Prime. But, the new Lee Auto-Prime XR uses standard shell holders.
Quote from: Cookie on April 04, 2011, 02:53:36 PM
That was true for the old Lee Auto-Prime. But, the new Lee Auto-Prime XR uses standard shell holders.
Thats good to know, glad they finally got with the program.
Quote from: Cliff Fendley on April 04, 2011, 05:14:01 PM
Thats good to know, glad they finally got with the program.
AFTER I was all set up under the old system! I guess I'll stick with what I have.
For beginners, I concurr that a single stage not only reduces complexity, but helps train the brain whilst keeping things simple.
Whilst I personally prefer RCBS and good cast iron, if one were starting from zero this Lee kit from Cabelas for $105 on sale is complete except for dies, and will do nicely for many years for pistol calibers:
http://tinyurl.com/lee-on-sale
If budget were not a major concern you could do far worse than the Lyman Crusher Kit for $329.99:
http://tinyurl.com/lyman-complet-kit
which has a proper case trimmer AND includes the Lyman Loading book!
you will also want a case tumbler and media, here's one on sale at cabelas for another $50:
http://tinyurl.com/Lyman-Tumbler
Since you Plan to load 38 spcl. 44 Colt & spcl and 45 Colt, you need dies at here you'll find Lee Carbide on sale for $26 each:
http://tinyurl.com/Lee-Dies-on-Sale
and last you will need
consumables -
- powder (I like Unique)
- primers, large and small pistol
- case lube
And if you choose to cast your own, you'll need bullet molds
These from track of the wolf look "fairly" traditional"
http://tinyurl.com/TOTW-Molds
.38 ==>LEE-90303 Lee .38 caliber, .358" diameter, 158 grain, flat nose solid base BPCR mold, double cavity . . . $19.25
.44 ==> LEE-90285 Lee 44 caliber, .429" diameter, 200 grain, flat nose, solid base BPCR mold, double cavity . . . $19.25
.45 ==> LEE-90358 Lee 45 Long Colt, .452" diameter, 255 grain, flat nose, solid base BPCR mold, double cavity . . . $19.25
- a lead pot http://tinyurl.com/Lee-Production-Pot $50
- bullet lube (alox, whatever)
For Bullet lube, for starters you can get by with the old lee "cookie cutter" lube system or get a Lee sizing die
http://www.gunaccessories.com/lee/molds&melters/Lube&SizeKit.asp
or just tumble them in liquid alox.
I leave the arithmetic as an exercise for the accounting student ;-)
did we scare you off yet ? ... ::)
It's a pretty penny to start, but at $50 a box for cartridges the $300-$400 startup cost is paid for rapidly!
The wise reloader will take a lesson from the recent shortages and quietly stockpile supplies against a time of need -
it is simplicity itself to double your purchase for a bit - ie: if you need one pound of powder buy 2 pounds.
if you need 400 primers, buy a thousand. In this manner it spreads the cost and it is not as painfull as dropping the dime for all the gear, and another thou on componants and lead all at once....
yhs
prof marvel
You might also check garage sales and pawn shops. I was once offered a banana box full of reloading stuff for $10. While some things wear out, a single stage press by a major maker can withstand anything short of a fire or explosion.
BTW, if anyone ever gives you old powder thank them and then pour the stuff out on your yard later. You have no control over how or what might have been done to the stuff.
This thread shoul be put on the FAQ List under Everythin YOu Wanted to Know aout Reloading ... What great info!
Quote from: Shotgun Franklin on April 05, 2011, 11:38:29 AM
BTW, if anyone ever gives you old powder thank them and then pour the stuff out on your yard later. You have no control over how or what might have been done to the stuff.
I've had several times I've been given full sealed cans of powder, as long as it's still sealed I use it. I was given two full pounds of 4895 and two full sealed cans of Green Dot a couple years ago.
Nooo ..ain't skert yet :o but I'm a might bit cautious
I have pard that going show me the ropes, then armed with hands on how too
I'll buy my kit....
I think I'll do BP.....
Major,
A lot of good advice has been posted above.
Another place for many hours of "On line Info" ishttp://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=4 (http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=4). The Reloading area of the Brian Enos forums. Again, it does not substitute for reading the reloading manuals.
Shotgun Franklin is also right on about being patient and watching yard and estate sales along with the pawn shops. I just picked up a Dillon 550 with 5 sets of dies, 4 tool heads and 3 conversion kits for $275. Almost $1000 of tooling if I had gone out and bought them new. :o There are definitely deals out there ;D
Good hunting and I hope that you enjoy this secondary aspect of our sport.
There is,however, a sinister side to reloading: addiction. yes, iknow, it starts innocently enough: "I'll just load a few". How many
have said that? Soon you're in the basement cranking out thousands of rounds laughing hysterically.
Quote from: Major 2 on April 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Nooo ..ain't skert yet :o but I'm a might bit cautious
I have pard that going show me the ropes, then armed with hands on how too
I'll buy my kit....
I think I'll do BP.....
Major; Good attitude on all 3 points! :) :) :)
I was going involve my wife..but she'd just shoot her mouth off ...no wait ! :o
Howdy
Am I the only one who noticed he is going to be mostly loading Black Powder?
I strongly suggest you pick up one of these books. All written by Mike Venturino. Shooting Colt Single Actions, Shooting Sixguns of the Old West, or Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West. Each one of them has a great primer for loading the old cartridges with Black Powder. The only place I disagree with Mike is you don't need a drop tube to load for Cowboy shooting. Looks like the Colt book is currently out of print, but it looks like Mike has the other two. Don't get the Buffalo Rifle book, it is strictly about shooting single shot rifles. You can buy that another time.
http://www.mlventerprises.com/ (http://www.mlventerprises.com/)
If you are going to be loading real Black Powder, you MUST use a BP compatible lube on your bullets. Regular Smokeless lube will cause problems. There are other methods, but by far the easiest is to use Big Lube bullets. You will save yourself a lot of hassles if you simply use the Big Lube bullets and lube them with a BP compatible lube like SPG. Go to Dick Dartardly's Big Lube Bullet site.
Dick does not sell bullets, just molds and stuff, but if you go to to his links page he lists several casters who cast the Big Lube bullets commercially. I assume you are not going to want to start casting bullets at this point, better save that for after you have been loading for a while.
http://www.biglube.com/ (http://www.biglube.com/)
I am not even going to get into the debate about what type of equipment to buy. Do not rush into this. Before you spend one red cent on equipment, buy a good loading manual and read the chapter describing the reloading process. There is a lot to absorb. I recommend the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook because it has good illustrations for the beginner. The big Lyman book is also good, as well as the books from Speer, Lee, and Hornady. Then, once you have a feeling for the type of equipment that is available, then, and only then, consider what type of equipment and what brand you want to get.
Reloading can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. You can single stage it for a while, or you can jump right into a full blown progressive machine. However, be aware that there are a few basic differences between loading Black Powder and loading Smokeless. That's why you need a regular manual as well as one of Venturino's books, to sift out the differences.
For what it's worth, I started with a used single stage press, then once I felt comfortable with what I was doing, I moved up to a progressive. However, if you are going to get started reloading with Black Powder, I recommend you do not start with a progressive press. Start simple with a single stage machine, you can always move up later once you understand the basics.
Some tips right on the ballast from a guy in the know, though not specific to BP:
http://www.curtrich.com/reloading.html
You're gonna have a hog-killing time rolling your own once you get the hang of it. ;D
Correct DJ...BP is the plan ...Big Lube bullets and SPG. were on my short list.
Some years ago someone sent me some Sample BLB's to try.
I gave then to my then reloader, who loaded them for me.
I'll hold off on equipment for now ,I've some reading to do..........
but the single stage is my first choice....I've picked up alot of help with this thread ;D
Okay,
First I want to admit that I am a newbie at this ... and am watching my pennies as well.
I have heard so may people say to start with the Lee single stage Reloader ... so I think that is what I want to do.
Since I primaryily shoot a brace of Navy Arms (Uberti) Schofields, I will probably start with reloading smokeless.
That being said, I am guessing there is a lot of people who are moving up from a single stage Lee to a multistage reloader ...
are there things to watchout for in a used Lee single stage reloader?
And would I save enough to make it worthwhile? Like 40%?
Major.
I went to Cabela's to pick up a Lee outfit. I bought a used Dillon Square Deal that is very nice, but I load several calibers. I compared the Lee Classic Cast to other Lee single stage and the Cast is hands down the choice! It is affordable, incredibly strong (a beast) and works smooth as silk. You can remove the threaded bushing if you decide to use the RCBS 12 Gage cowboy dies as well.
Good luck,
PhP
The thing to watch out for on the Lee and other cheaper presses is try and make every pull the same so that any flex in the press is the same every time. In order for ammo to be consistent it has to be repeatable. That is the BIG difference with the Lee challenger presses compared to the RCBS, Lyman, and other more ridged presses.
It's not as big of deal when shooting pistol Cowboy action stuff as accuracy isn't as important. When you get into precision rifle it's a different game. The better presses don't flex and give the repeatability you need for accuracy.
I would recommend starting with a single stage but the best one you can afford. If it's the Lee then go for it but if you can swing for the RCBS it's the last single stage press you'll ever need. You can really tell the difference once you've used both. The Lyman press that looks like the Rock Chucker is an awesome press also.
Cliff
As I'm one who enjoys & understands quality tools ,and having photo toured your shop, your recommendations hold a strong value with me.
When I spring, it will be the RCBS Rock Crusher Single Stage... Though I doubt I'll ever go beyond 38, 44 & 45 in western action loads.
It will be good to know I have a ridged press.
Lot's of good advice here, I'd agree with those who suggest a single stage to start with. I started with a Lyman 310 40 years ago, and very quickly moved up to a Lyman Spartan single stage(I don't think they've made this one for years) Still the only press I have.
Also, I just got one of the "new and improved" Lee hand primer tools. They still use the special shell holder, not the regular press type. It's supposed to be safer then the old ones, but for me it doesn't seem to work nearly as well. I can't seem to get through priming a hundred cases without dropping at least one or two primers on the floor, That never happens with the old one. Only reason I got the new one is because the old model came to me used, and the primer ram for small primers was missing.
The Rock Chucker is an awesome press, but because it was overbuilt to be able to handle the rigors of bullet swaging it is somewhat expensive and, being a one-holer, is also kind of slow if frequent die changes are needed. Handgun reloading takes a 3 or 4 die set at least. For some reason I have found it possible to use 6 different dies when reloading 45 Colt with BP (long, off topic story).
The LEE turret presses are more than adequately built for any handgun and most rifle cartridges, and it is a few second process to change dies in them. I have quite a few presses, including a pair of Dillion RL550's, a Corbin Swage Press, a Lee Cast Classic (Lee's attempted clone of the Rock Chucker), and an older LEE 3-hole turret press. None of them are junk... far from it. They are all mounted to my bench at all times, and all get used quite a bit. Each one is a bit better for a specific task than the others. The LEE turret press gets quite a workout regularly. I have more turrets for it than I want to count (30 maybe?) with assorted dies in them for various calibers or specialty dies.
When I got the LEE turret press many years ago, that was all LEE had in the way of Turret Presses. If I was to do it all over again, I might consider that 4 hole Cast Classic.
Just to end the story properly, I have has other presses and gotten rid of them because they were not working out well for me. I kept the ones that worked well for me and got rid of the ones that did not. The story that most often comes to mind was about 20 years back, when I had a pair of LEE PRO1000's set up in 44 and .45 ACP. I know other people seem to like them, but regular jamming was frustrating, and when a primer feeder tray blew up in my face I got scared and unloaded the pair for $100 bucks complete with dies. I put the $100 towards the first Dillon RL550 and never regretted it. I know other people use the PRO1000 and will defend them to the death and I won't argue with them... just stating the facts as they happened.
Nows a good time to buy.
Anybody needing equipment look around cause now might be a good time to get good stuff for a good price. I saw the RCBS master reloading kit for a super good price with a 50 dollar rebate at our local gun shop and then have noticed them for good prices in Cabelas. Might also check Midway or Grafs too.
They also had the Lyman stuff on sale too but not as good of deal as the RCBS.
The Lyman Crusher press is also a very good press comparable to the rock chucker and their other products are good too.
I really like my Lee Classic 4 hole Turret press. Only takes a few minutes to adjust the dies in the turret plate and then takes only seconds to switch the plate and shellholder to change calibers.
Only a few seconds to remove one screw and the advancement mechanism is disabled turning the press into a single stage. If needed.
You don't have to take off that collar. Just remove the twisted rod.
I got started loading for high power in summer of 94. The tumble, lube, size, trim, deburr/chamfer, remove lube,prime, charge, seat bullet thing kinda made an automatic progressive not real workable. Ya could have done a batch job on sizeing then did the manual stuff for a bunch of cases then swapped out after sizing but...
Elected to go with the Lyman - T-mag expert kit. Needed the tumbler - bought a lyman (memory sketchy may have been in an expert deluxe kit at the time, think bought separately). Got the case kit couple of brushes and mica for neck lube (dont need for CAS). Also got the primer pocket kit and the lee hammer driven depriming kit in .30 cal to knock crimped in primers out. Most depriming pins in die sets will bust doing them.
Shooting 2 -3 50 - 80 round matchs a month with sometimes another 22 rounds for a 100 yard and 51 for a Palma match some times, without ever singley overloading the lyman tumbler, wore one out in about 2 years. Replaced it with a dillon CV 500. Wokred it hard many years in high power. It finally died last month. Dillon upgraded it to the newer CV750 under warrantee. I would have gladly paid, as I certainly got my moneys worth, but at the time I bought it tumblers had the dillon warrantee. As they do not make the motors they no longer warrantee tumblers for life but do rebuild for less than 1/2 price of new.
Have beome lazy in my old age so in the past couple of years I have added two turrets so I can leave dies set up for commonly shot calibers. Have 3 empty holes for not so often calibers. WHat evey you choose recommend you make dummy ronds exaclty how you want finished rounds to work to aid in set up.
10-4 on what Cliff Fendly said about getting a RCBS type ammo reloading kit. Check out the prices of other brands also (Lyman, Hornady). Midsouth Shooters Supply usually has most prices beat. I've been doing business with them along time. When comparing prices, they can't be beat for price and service. I bought my RCBS Rockchucker back in Feb of '76 and nary a problem with it. I bought most of my reloading equipment seperatly over the years, but if I was just getting into reloading, the kits have the basic things you need, expierence will dictate what you need later on. Get carbide dies if you can if you are going to reload for pistol-saves having to roll brass on a lube pad and then having to clean the sticky lube off. If you are going to reload bottle neck rifle, ya have to suffer through the lubing, unless you get one of the new fangled lube dies. I like Lee's 'Factory Crimp" dies also for pistol. It's another step after you seat the bullet, but it really puts a nice crimp on the bullet. Lee's hand primer is also a valuable tool. Wore out my first one, on my second one now, but wish I had gotten one of the new square tray models vs the round tray. Lee makes some good assesories, but I've never been to impressed with their presses and scales. No offense to those who have them, but when compared to others, the quality difference can be seen.
Just received a Midsouth flyer yesterday, they have various manufacturer kits on sale, call for a catolog or check online. I've steered several new reloaders down the 'kit' road and they were satisfied with their decision. After reloading for a spell, they discovered what added tools they needed. I've reloaded 1000's of rds with the RCBS single stage press and can reload all the ammo I need. In fact, I enjoy reloading and casting bullets as much as shoooting. Don't consider it a chore. The only thing I detest is case trimming, but suffer through it when needed.
The comment about using or starting out with a single stage vs a progressive press has alot of merit. You can't just start cranking out quality ammo by pulling a handle. Takes alot of forethought, planning, research, and knowing how a cartridge is put together. I play guitar, self taught, but alot of guitar teachers have told me and I've heard a number of professional players say that if you want to learn to play, the best road is starting out on an acoustic, learning the basics. If you or one of your children want to advance and maybe play electric, the techniques for playing electric will come much eaiser. You can't just pick up a Fender Strat and sound like Clapton right out of the chute! If after reloading on a single stage for a spell and you really need a progressive, you will have the basic knowledge and expierence to go that route.
One item that doesn't come with most kits is a stand to mount the powder measure. A strap is furnished to mount it even with a table or bench, but the stand puts it up where it is easier to charge cases. Not needed to reload, but it makes the process alot easier. Time, talking with other reloaders, research (ie, gun magizines/books), and actual reloading will show you what you need and not need. Be glad to talk with any of ya about getting started or questions, just send me a PM and can exchange phone numbers. Yers, Crow Choker
Well I scored a used Lyman single stage press this evening... :D
It's called a Crusher Spartan (edit)
it needs a clevis pin for the extention that lifts the piston.
I need to get dies, and a few more items , but I'll be making my own rounds before to long
Quote from: Major 2 on December 18, 2011, 05:13:22 PM
Well I scored a used Lyman single stage press this evening... :D
It's called a Crusher I think....
it needs a clevis pin for the extention that lifts the piston.
I need to get dies, and a few more items , but I'll be making my own rounds before to long
Its painted orange and called the "crusher"? I think that the name is deliberate. I think they are also extra large to work with .50BMG, or swage bullets? I know with RCBS a 1-800 call and a chat with the tech and I'm GTG. I hope a call to Lyman works as slick. Often those fasteners, and other bits & pieces are standaed trade items that you might find at you local DIY store.
Sounds like a good score.
Major-The Lyman 'Crusher' press is a quality, hardworkin press. Knew a reloader once who had one and it is 'top shelf' as far as single stage presses on the market. Sir Charles comment on Lyman's customer service, whether it was up to RCBS's (which I to have found to be very good) is as good as RCBS's. The time's I've called them ref mold's, dies, etc, they were doing back-flips to please me. :) ;D (like these Christmas smileys ;D)
Well the guy dropped it off :) but as it turns out it's a Spartan ... it is like new old stock thought, As I think these date back to the 70's or so.
It does not appear to have ever been bolted dowm :-\
I read a bit about them ...they use standared die's, and got a good rating for being handy because of it's C Frame design.
I plan to load only pistol cartridges 38 Colt & Spec'l , 44 Colt & Spec'l & 45 Colt (some mentioned the Spatan did not like long Rifle Cases )
In one or two photos you can see the pin I'm missing.....
I'd like to try to make this work for me, I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
Remember reading about them and the ads in gun mags, never any thing negative as I can recall. The pin your missing would be a solid steel pin. Lyman may still have some in stock, worth a call or with the right measurements, a machine shop may be a place to check out. The open 'C' press style will work well for what you've indicated you will be loading. From what I've read and heard they only had their limitations when loading some of the bigger rifle calibers or swaging bullets.
That's what I read too... I have only Pistol caliber WAS shooters to load , for so it should work just fine...
I'll call Lyman tomorrow , course I have no idea what the pin is called or the Part # :-\
But if I can send them photo....
That's just like my press, I've loaded a LOT of rounds on it(In fact, it's the only press I've ever used) It has loaded lots of pistol ammo, plus rifle up to 30-06 length, lot of other milsurp calibers, up to .45-70. It has been reliable for all that, but I've never done any heavy duty case forming with it(I doubt if making 25-20 out of 32-20 counts as "heavy duty") I have had it since I was about 15 or 16, bought it about '73 or '4 from Gander Mountain, when I got tired of loading with a 310 tool.
I've got an old Bair C press someone gave me I set up from time to time, mostly use it to size bullets with Lee dies. I would not worry about any normal loading with it, I would not use it for heavy duty forming, but for normal resizing and loading they do just fine.
My brother has a Gray Lyman press that I think is called the Crusher. Its made very much like an RCBS rock chucker and is a very good press.
I set myself up , made a stout table of 3 layers of 3/4 ply (2 1/4" thick) and steel legs, which in turn is then bolted to the wall, very solid.
Lyman responded, no parts for this model ( circa 1972) except they still carry the handle. They did send the OEM Manual reprint though, but it's not much other than instructions on bolting it down & reversing the Handle for up stroke or down stroke operation.
The Lyman Spartan is bolted down ( the missing pin was 5 /16'' X . 375 ) I made two out of 5/16 = 0.3125 Case bolts.
These are slip fit, and tend slide a bit in operation.... I measured a Drill bit shank and it ran 0.314 so I have cut one to lenght
and will see if that will tap in for snugger fit maybe add a dolup of blue gel Loctite. :-\
My first attemps will be with Heeled bullets in 38 Colt cases with BP.
I need to get some Dies, I'll start with 38 Colt .... ( I need a .375 or .376 sizing die as well )
Major,
You are on your way..... ;D I would suggest getting a plastic cup of some sort (margarine container) and using a rubber band to fasten it below the priming mechanism. Otherwise you will have spent primers all over the floor............
Here are a few other things I would suggest:
1.)Manual - If you haven't already, get a reloading manual. I would recommend the Lyman. I would read the reloading chapters at least 3 times or until you are very familiar with it. The chapter on casting bullets is very good too.
2.) Carbide die sets - eliminates the messy job of case lubing.
3.) 50 round loading blocks (45 caliber cartridge trays work great for 38's)
4.) Lee or RCBS auto prime - much faster than loading primers 1 at a time in the press
5.) Powder measure - Lyman 55 - has graduations for b.p.
6.) Powder scale - Hornady electronic- very reasonably priced and works very well (I like a manual scale as well but ever since getting the Hornady, I rarely use it anymore.)
Have fun!
w44wcf
yes sir ..I'll have fab something up...I was sent link to eBay with listing for an OEM Primer cup attachment..it was sold.
But the price it sold for was like it was gold :o
I saw the presses in the $30 range, and the cup (new old stock ) sold for $42
I'll do something like you suggest (" plastic cup of some sort (margarine container ")
Carbide die's...OK , check
I got hand primer & a bullet puller ...gonna get a tumbler tomorrow..
If you were going to do multiple calibers, I would suggest the RCBS hand priming unit as it takes standard shell holders. One less thing to buy. But then I just bought a couple of 2nd shell holders just to keep from taking one of the press if I need to prime a few more cases.
No actual benefit over buying the lee special shell holders for their hand prime unit.
Howdy Major,
Just wondering how your reloading experience is going.......
w44wcf
Roger,
I have used a LEE 4 hole turret press with auto index for 18 years (was 3 hole but converted it to a 4 hole). I can do 150+ pistol rounds a minute withe auto-powder dump in the LEE die set, and use LEE factory crimp die in forth hole. VERY economical. I manually set primer and bullet, and don't have any problems. I have different turrets for different calibers: 30-30, .44 Mag, .38 S&W (pocket).
Midway USA has a great buy on them. $214 for everything including auto dump powder hopper, and scale!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit
Here's the older style kit that I have. It's $114. It doesn't come with the powder measure/dump, but that can be added.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/622290/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-value-kit?cm_vc=S016ID785993
Dang TL thanks for the link !
w44wcf ... I spent some quality time on the bench today ...nothing speedy ....cleaned & sorted yesterdays brass.....
clean the guns.... saw needs for more shelving....
( BTW ...here is :o a shock I got all my brass back, every round ! but whats shocking that's twice in row thats happened )
pays to shoot the odd duck caliber 44 Colt when everybody is either 44/40 or 45 Colt and some 38 cal. folks.
I LOVE my LEE! People look down o LEE presses, for some uneducated reason. I call it my poor man's progressive, but the turret moves with each pull of the handle, instead of the shell moving. I can easily do 150 rounds an hour of .44-40. I have actually done a little over 200 in an hour when I was in my stride and loading smokeless all the time. I use the LEE 44-40 dies: sizing/de-capper, powder thru expander, bullet seat/roll crimp (though I do not use roll crimp on 44-40) and finally LEE factory crimp die. If you get the turret press with auto index, TAKE A MINUTE and follow the "index adjustment instructions." even on 44-40, I doubt if I crush one case in 600 or 700 rounds. I have their auto disk powder drop, and with ball powder like 231 or 2400, it throws within .02 grain weight. (ie: 6.60 + or - .02 grain).
I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds in the following calibers with the LEE turret press through the last 18 years:
9mm, 45 ACP, 10mm, .38/357, .44 Mag. .44 special, .44 Colt, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt, 38-40, 44-40, 30-30, 45-70, 45-120 (no auto index), 56-56, 56-50, .30 carbine, .223, 7.62x39, and a few others.
(http://sdough.smugmug.com/Art/Just-For-Fun/reloading/718349440_gc2x8-M.jpg)
Howdy
I have been reloadin since about 1970. been usin the turret in the pix since 1978, LoadAll at least last 5 years. On that turret I load 380, 9mm, 38/357/ 45lc and 45acp.
First off you need to get Modern Reloading and read it
I helped a pard get ready to load 38/357 and got going for around $200 including his first "useables" (powder, bollits, primers) but you can always shop around for stuff. Check out Midway for sales. Also check out Lees website for clearance items.
I use several powders ie Bullseye (9mm 38sp) Clays 12ga and Unique for 45lc but that is cuz I am an oldtymer and like what I set up years ago, but starting out try to reduce your kinds of powder. Old Top uses Clays for almost everything he shoots.
If I can be of any help give a holler.
(you too WWE...)
good ahootin
curley
Roger, just loaded about 400 rounds of 44-40 with the LEE 4 hole turret press with auto index. Not a single crushed case.
First, if you are loading heeled bullets you need to know about Old West Bullet Molds. Bernie cuts heeled molds for the old calibers. You are starting on a graduate level of reloading, you know, starting with heeled bullets and BP.
Do NOT get the Lee scale, it's not worth it. Some like the Lee powder measure, some call theirs the Lee powder spreader. The Lyman 55 is a good choice and are available regularly on eBay. Lyman and RCBS both have good scales, as are the old Readding scales.
If you are going to start casting, and that is probable unless you are lucky enough to know someone who already does, you need to visit and probably join www.Castboolits.gunloads.com - read stickies and you will find most of what you need to know about casting your own.
Wayne the Shrink
Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on March 04, 2012, 08:54:05 AM
Roger,
I have used a LEE 4 hole turret press with auto index for 18 years (was 3 hole but converted it to a 4 hole). I can do 150+ pistol rounds a minute withe auto-powder dump in the LEE die set, and use LEE factory crimp die in forth hole. VERY economical. I manually set primer and bullet, and don't have any problems. I have different turrets for different calibers: 30-30, .44 Mag, .38 S&W (pocket).
Midway USA has a great buy on them. $214 for everything including auto dump powder hopper, and scale!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit
Over two rounds a second huh? I can't shoot them that fast. ;D
When the lad and I team up we have done 6 hundred an hour but that is one every 6 seconds and I usually prefer to rest my arm before that.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/30WCF/DSCN1635.jpg)
OOOOOOPPPPPPS! I meant 150 to 200 rounds an HOUR! Danged Old Timers...