I wonder that I really need to make a comment at all ... I mean, there are sites for the Henry, sites for the Winchester '76, yet arguably one of the most used rifles in SASS must meekly try to horn in on another forum.
I am sure there is some logic behind this, but I would sure like it explained to me ...
Inquiring minds want to know ...
No Replys .... why am I not surprised?
While I am not in the loop, my feeling is that the 1873 is already common and well known by most Pards. ???
Perhaps its success as a competitive firearm has a very minor drawback. :P
NO MYSTERY! ;D
I'd have to agree.
Besides - the basic action is well-handled in other forums - so there's no real value to a separate forum.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
Well, there's my answer ...
I suppose I will have to just keep placing my questions in those 'other forums' ...
Look at it this way, the '73 is so common that it fits in any forum except for those that are specifically dedicated to something else. ;)
Camille,
First, nicetaseeya!
If I thought my replies would generate interest from such an august person, I would write more replies...
I am asking 'cause whenever I go to a SASS meet, it seems like the Model 73s are far and away the most well used rifles ....
And I have had comments, when posting on the Model 92 sight and the Model 66 sight asking why I was posting on 'their' site ...
When one looks a the plethora of other forums, for top Breaks, Colts, Colt Open Tops, Rugers, Model 92s, Model 60s, Model 76s ad nauseum, it would seem that a Model 73 forum might not be that far-fetched.
But then again, I am reminded of an old military instructors words ... 'We have always done it that way before and it has always worked before' .... or 'If the military wanted to have it they would have issued it to you ...'
So I bow to the decision making authority and accept what they offer .... *S*
Quote from: St. George on May 13, 2010, 10:41:38 AM
there's no real value to a separate forum.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
That almost sounds like a cheap way of getting out of putting up a useful forum...
Why can't there be a 1873 forum. New shooters might find it of good use...!
Why not rethink this, instead of dodging it??
Bill
Quote from: WaddWatsonEllis on May 17, 2010, 05:27:41 PM
And I have had comments, when posting on the Model 92 sight and the Model 66 sight asking why I was posting on 'their' site ...
When one looks a the plethora of other forums, for top Breaks, Colts, Colt Open Tops, Rugers, Model 92s, Model 60s, Model 76s ad nauseum, it would seem that a Model 73 forum might not be that far-fetched.
I'm missing something. Where is the model '92 forum and the model '66 forum that you are talking about?
I'm not Marshall and he's the only one that can create a new forum but the '66, '92, '73 and the '74 are all used in SASS as main match guns. Therefore the entire rest of the board that isn't specifically for something else is open for posting about those guns. In addition the '66 and '73 have identical actions, other than the safety on the '73 so I don't know why a forum on '66s would exclude '73s.
Besides that, how much can you say about the '73s that we use? :o
History, Action can be covered in one short post, mods allowed is another post barrel lengths... Just trying to determine what the forum would be used for.
I am just checking my emails before starting my day.
So I will respond in less of a knee-jerk reaction after work.
But I stand corrected; when I said model 92 and '66, I meant the Model 76 and Henry Model '60 forums. Mea Culpa ...
Quote from: Camille Eonich on May 18, 2010, 08:51:56 AM
I'm missing something. Where is the model '92 forum and the model '66 forum that you are talking about?
I'm not Marshall and he's the only one that can create a new forum but the '66, '92, '73 and the '74 are all used in SASS as main match guns. Therefore the entire rest of the board that isn't specifically for something else is open for posting about those guns. In addition the '66 and '73 have identical actions, other than the safety on the '73 so I don't know why a forum on '66s would exclude '73s.
Besides that, how much can you say about the '73s that we use? :o
History, Action can be covered in one short post, mods allowed is another post barrel lengths... Just trying to determine what the forum would be used for.
For one difference, the actions are made of different material. That difference is enough to make some shooters pass on one rifle and go for the other.
New shooters are always coming around and asking questions. Maybe the questions most of them ask aren't well informed questions, but a '73 forum will give the new shooters a place to start. How many of the new shooters are "Gun Savvy" enough to know the '66 and the '73 are close cousins?.
So why can't there for a forum for the 73 Winchesters, and Repros for them to look at? I really think you are missing something here.
Bill
The actions aren't actually different materials, just the frame. ;)
I'll not argue with you as there is really nothing to argue about. It's my opinion that with the entire forum being devoted to CAS and the '66 and the '73 being the most commonly used gun in CAS the whole forum is the appropriate place to talk about those rifles. Why limit such an integral part of CAS to one area of the forum?
And there is no need for rudeness Mr Stillwater.
Quote from: Camille Eonich on May 19, 2010, 09:09:19 AM
The actions aren't actually different materials, just the frame. ;)
I'll not argue with you as there is really nothing to argue about. It's my opinion that with the entire forum being devoted to CAS and the '66 and the '73 being the most commonly used gun in CAS the whole forum is the appropriate place to talk about those rifles. Why limit such an integral part of CAS to one area of the forum?
And there is no need for rudeness Mr Stillwater.
It isn't limiting discussion to one area of the forum, it is providing a place where discussion of the 1873 Winchester could be concentrated, instead of scattering it all over hells half acre.
I wasn't aware I was being rude...!
I was disagreeing with you, properly I thought, is that a reason to be so thin skinned?
Bill
Quote from: Stillwater on May 19, 2010, 08:08:10 PM
I was disagreeing with you, properly I thought, is that a reason to be so thin skinned?
Bill
Quote from: Stillwater
That almost sounds like a cheap way of getting out of putting up a useful forum...
Quote from: Camille Eonich
I'm missing something. Where is the model '92 forum and the model '66 forum that you are talking about?
Quote from: Stillwater
I really think you are missing something here.
Statements such as those do not argue the merits of having another forum but are directed at the people that you are debating against.
I would like to see a Winchester Model 73 Forum too. I asked Marshal Halloway about this about a year ago. He stated that he would be adding a Forum for the 73 in the near future. The next time new forums were added the 73 was not. Guess he either inadvertently left it out or decided it wasn't needed after all. I argee with WWE and Stillwater and feel a 73 Winchester Forum would beneficial to this already excellent medium.
Deadeye Dick
The Henry Forum you mention, Wadd, is moderated by Flint & Myself.
It is the 60 Henry Forum and we welcome the Kings improved 66.
I'm unaware, you or anyone else was chastized (chastized I said :) ) for asking about the 73 in that commumity.
Point me to the link and I'd set it straight.
Same basic, toggle link action, I too enjoy the Henry's younger Brother the 73 my ownself.... (with two Henry's & a 73)
Mr. Stillwater ,
I don't believe Camille was or is a bit thin skined...I felt the rudeness myself, in your words.
Simply because the basic action is already well covered, and there's nothing new at all.
There are no '66 or '92 forums, either - there doesn't need to be, since the information's readily available on 'this' forum.
Animosity and confrontational attitude isn't conducive towards polite discourse.
Scouts Out!
When I first got a Uberti/Model '73/Codymatic, I knew so little of the weapon that I went to casity.com
I went to cascity.com and was told that there was not a '73 Winchester forum, and to go to, if I remember right, the '66 forum. So I did and posted the question again.
I was asked ,by another member if I remember correctly, why I was on the '66 forum and why I didn't post to a forum for that weapon?
So I queried this question in MAY OF 2010 .... got the answer that basically 'that it had always been done like this before, and it wasn't changing' and let it go.
To paraphrase St Francis, one changes what one can and recognizes the intractable. I simply went elsewhare to answer my questions ...
This was not meant to start any more fires or reheat a controversy ... but since my name kept being brought back into this,
I thought it deserved a comment from me.
WaddWatsonEllis,
I don't know why I had not noticed your thread before. :-[
I would agree that a forum for the 1873 Winchester would be a good if not GREAT one! ;D
After all, historically speaking, the 44 WCF cartridge (aka 44-40) was first chambered in the 1873 not the 1866 nor the Henry.
In addition, the 32 WCF (32-20) and 38 WCF (38-40) were also available only in the 1873 before the '92 was born.
So........to be historically correct, discussion and information about those three cartridges should be related to the 1873 Winchester.
Today, as we know, the 44-40 is chambered in the the Henry and 1866 reproduction rifles....but the 32-20 and 38-40 are not.
Long live the '73!
w44wcf
Quote from: w44wcf on September 16, 2011, 10:36:13 AM
<snip>
Today, as we know, the 44-40 is chambered in the the Henry and 1866 reproduction rifles....but the 32-20 and 38-40 are not.
Long live the '73!
w44wcf
Not in the repro Henrys, but the '66 is available in 32-20 and 38-40.
Quote from: w44wcf on September 16, 2011, 10:36:13 AM
WaddWatsonEllis,
I don't know why I had not noticed your thread before. :-[
I would agree that a forum for the 1873 Winchester would be a good if not GREAT one! ;D
After all, historically speaking, the 44 WCF cartridge (aka 44-40) was first chambered in the 1873 not the 1866 nor the Henry.
In addition, the 32 WCF (32-20) and 38 WCF (38-40) were also available only in the 1873 before the '92 was born.
So........to be historically correct, discussion and information about those three cartridges should be related to the 1873 Winchester.
Today, as we know, the 44-40 is chambered in the the Henry and 1866 reproduction rifles....but the 32-20 and 38-40 are not.
Long live the '73!
w44wcf
It seems that the only thing that is rigidly, historically accurate, on this forum, are belts and belt loops...! Other things are granted exceptions...!
Bill
Everyone already knows that Winchester's basic toggle-link action is the "gold-standard" for a cowboy lever gun...and, shooter-grade originals are still available at reasonable cost. Unlike original Henry & Improved Henry models which a fixer-upper will set you back nearly $10K, plus purchasing ammo or reloading for it is a bit dicey.
Old 1873's...yes I have a 44 WCF....my Pa has a 38 WCF & 32-20 WCF.
Slim
Montana,
You state..."Everyone already knows that Winchester's basic toggle-link action is the "gold-standard" for a cowboy lever gun..." AND you are most correct. However, The toggle-link action was also the death of this historic rifle. John Moses Browing worked on these rifles and told his father, "I can make a better one." In 1882 he did the patent and in 1886 he convinced Winchester to produce his 1886 Lever Action in 45-70 caliber. The action that is on the '86 is the '82 patent he designed.... same action on the 1892 Winchester. Even though Wichester continued to make the '73 ... the writing was on the wall. The Toggel-Link action was to be history. It was a weak system for people who wanted a stronger rifle. The "Gold Standard" changed in 1886. It was a slow death sentence for the '73...
I know the '73 in all its different styles and models is EXTREMELY popular and probably it is the most used rifle in all of SASS. But the Toggel-Link system with the Elevator carrier can be your worst nightmare... and I am not speaking about shooting extremely hot loads. Shooters are keeping a lot of folks employed with all the short-stroking kits, action jobs, etc, etc, etc. When the '73 is done right... it is a joy to behold... but there is also a darkside to the '73. LOL I have a '92 and I did the action work on it myself and it is just as slick as the '73, (if not slicker) with all the bells and whistles. The difference...COST and you cannot short stroke the '92 where it is cost effective.. so the difference is cost plus 3/4 of an inch in levering AND if'n I want to shoot HOT LOADS the '92 will do it, the 73 won't. Winchester found this out with JMB's 1886 rifle. That is why the 1876 Winchester had a short life cycle.