I stopped at a local leather shop yesterday, and bought a few items I needed, and got to talking to the owner of the place concerning leather finishes. I wanted to buy a wax based leather top coat, and she asked me what finish I used on the leather I was trying going to top coat. I told here I used EVOO, and she said I should never use any vegetable based oil finish on leather. She said it would rot the leather from the inside out. Have I been misinformed? Or is there a possibility EVOO will do this to leather?
amin, she doesn't know what she's talking about, all Tandy store employees are told to say this, they don't sell EVOO, we use EVOO, not just reg. olive oil, EVOO, is EXTRA VIRGIN, olive oil, it is pure, and will not rote your leather and it won't go rancid, Chuck Burrows and Will Ghromely use EVOO, and I think they have more knowledge and know how than a store clerk, the few times I've dealt with Tandy and asked questions, on several different occasions I got the wrong answers to my questions, it might be different in different locations, I'm sure Tandy must have some very competent people working in some of there stores, but around here the knowledge base is out the window when it comes to know how.
Regards
tEN wOLVES
WOW!! I was just told the same thing by a Tandy employee this morning. He said the "rot" applies to coffee and walnut dyes, too.
I was going to post the same question here, because it didn't seem like the right info.
wierd..
Quote from: Ten Wolves Fiveshooter on March 18, 2010, 04:44:32 PM
amin, she doesn't know what she's talking about, all Tandy store employees are told to say this, they don't sell EVOO, we use EVOO, not just reg. olive oil, EVOO, is EXTRA VIRGIN, olive oil, it is pure, and will not rote your leather and it won't go rancid, Chuck Burrows and Will Ghromely use EVOO, and I think they have more knowledge and know how than a store clerk, the few times I've dealt with Tandy and asked questions, on several different occasions I got the wrong answers to my questions, it might be different in different locations, I'm sure Tandy must have some very competent people working in some of there stores, but around here the knowledge base is out the window when it come to know how.
Regards
tEN wOLVES
I thought so TW! I couldn't figure pros like Chuck and Will using it on almost all there stuff if it would do that! But now to also clear up something here, it wasn't a Tandy employee that told me this. It was a leather store owner.( They are a Tandy dealer ) I will not mention the name, as it is really irrelevant. I thought it strange when I heard it though. When she asked me what I used to dye the leather, I told her I used Extra Virgin Olive Oil, like all the saddle makers use. She said Saddle makers don't use any vegetable based oil finish cause it rots the leather from the inside out. At that point I was taking everything with a grain of salt. I picked up two of Will's, Old West Collections patterns at that store last week, and they even say in the material list on the back side of the envelope " Cover products were finished with extra virgin olive oil. " I knew if I asked you all on here I would find out the facts. Thanks Ten Wolves.
Quote from: amin ledbetter on March 18, 2010, 04:10:30 PM
...I told here I used EVOO, and she said I should never use any vegetable based oil finish on leather. She said it would rot the leather from the inside out...
I'm by no means an expert here, but that's what happens when you use a
petroleum-based oil on leather. I've seen far too many leather rifle slings and compressed-leather knife handles that were ruined by the application of gun oil.
I do believe she had her wires crossed.
I have read the same negative thing about EVOO on a different leather maker's forum. They particularly said to excercise caution when using it in warm damp climates.
I plead ignorance on this topic. I have not tried it so I have no experience good or bad.
Howdy All
Let me say this. Ask a 100 leather workers a question and you are going to get 100 different answers. Some people have had problems with a product that others have had great results.
All the info given out on this board or any other is from personal experience. What we have all learned by doing. We hope it works for others.
As I tell my students, I am not the sole authority on leather work. That is why I bring in other Masters to teach classes at my store.
I hope this helps some.
WC
Quote from: TN Mongo on March 18, 2010, 06:57:49 PM
I have read the same negative thing about EVOO on a different leather maker's forum. They particularly said to excercise caution when using it in warm damp climates.
Actually, that makes sense of a kind. Think fungus, mold and mildew. But that wouldn't be limited to EVOO now, would it?
<--- Grew up in a warm, humid climate where EVERYTHING turned green, including ME if I stood still for a while...
Quote from: Daniel Nighteyes on March 18, 2010, 07:33:37 PM
Actually, that makes sense of a kind. Think fungus, mold and mildew. But that wouldn't be limited to EVOO now, would it?
<--- Grew up in a warm, humid climate where EVERYTHING turned green, including ME if I stood still for a while...
Yes it does seem very possible. It just raises the question even more though that if the product is used so often. and by so many, then why is it used if this is possible? EVOO!! Must be VOO DOO!! :o ;D
I think for those of us that have tried EVOO, like the results, I also have old gun leather that was treated with Neatsfoot oil, that has held up very well too, if it works then it works, I have personally used both with good result, and don't have anything negative thing to say about either, I also use and make my own natural dyes like walnut, coffee, pecan, and vinegaroon for black, I followed Chuck Burrows suggestions on conditioning and oil/ finish, and CowboyWC on Skidmores Leather Cream, I'm grateful for all this information, and plan on using it for most my leather work, BUT, we/you all need to try these methods out for yourself, to get an understanding of how they work, and what you need to do to finish the process up for lasting results, and the look you are after, there are so many variables involved, I like my method for what I do, but it did take some time to find, and to learn how to get where I wanted to go. So enjoy the process, and try different things, you will learn a lot, and along the way you will find the finish/look you're looking for , THAT YOU LIKE. that's what counts.
tEN wOLVES :D
Quote from: cowboywc on March 18, 2010, 07:28:44 PM
Howdy All
Let me say this. Ask a 100 leather workers a question and you are going to get 100 different answers. Some people have had problems with a product that others have had great results.
All the info given out on this board or any other is from personal experience. What we have all learned by doing. We hope it works for others.
As I tell my students, I am not the sole authority on leather work. That is why I bring in other Masters to teach classes at my store.
I hope this helps some.
WC
YEP! ;D ;D ;D
As for EVOO on leather - it's been used on leather since at least the ancient Egyptians based on tests and there are many still surviving pieces from then, Greece, Rome, etc.
Linseed oil is also a plant oil and it is what makes patent leather - patent leather.........
Thanks for coming in on this Chuck, it brings more authenticity to the truth of the matter.
tEN wOLVES
This subject reminds me of.......
QuoteWhen a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
Arthur C. Clarke, Clarke's first law
Well I am not going to be detoured from using EVOO to finish any of my projects. I do know that. Thanks for voicing in on this Chuck. I value the opinions of you and Ten wolves. Thanks a bunch pards.
I was afraid if you guys didn't chime in on this I would have to go to the Mythbuster's website to find my answer! ;D
True or False, we can always use Wisdom to our advantage, we appreciate your Wisdom Chuck, and that's an understatement, the caliber of leather smiths we have on this forum like yourself Will Ghromely Cowboy WC, and many others, has added an abundance of information for all of us to try, and learn, without teachers in any trade the skills will die, that hasn't happened here, and we all continue to learn something new every day. amin, it's wise to be careful who you listen to, just like anything else, there is good information, and there is bad, when in doubt, do your home work, that's always work well for me.
So thanks to all you teachers, we appreciate what you have to say
tEN wOLVES :D
Quote from: Ten Wolves Fiveshooter on March 18, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
True or False, we can always use Wisdom to our advantage, we appreciate your Wisdom Chuck, and that's an understatement, the caliber of leather smiths we have on this forum like yourself Will Ghromely Cowboy WC, and many others, has added an abundance of information for all of us to try, and learn, without teachers in any trade the skills will die, that hasn't happened here, and we all continue to learn something new every day. amin, it's wise to be careful who you listen to, just like anything else, there is good information, and there is bad, when in doubt, do your home work, that's always work well for me.
So thanks to all you teachers, we appreciate what you have to say
tEN wOLVES :D
I'll second that Ten Wolves. I couldn't have said it better!
I got to add my AMEN to that! JD
I by GOD second that!!! See my other post. :)
As a chemist, and actually I was a food chemist working with vegetable and animal oils, all oil will form peroxide, i.e. go rancid, but all oils will also evaporate, which is why we periodically have to treat our leather. The beauty of Extra Virgin Olive Oil is that it is extracted through a cold press technique. Oilives from the tree are pressed as is and the oil collected, and what water is there is decanted. Later to get more from the oilives, they are heated, pressed, oil collected, then they are heated, pressed, etc. until nothing is left. The heating of the oilives hastens the peroxide formation. Chuck is 100% correct, as is Arthur C. Clarke ;D. The egyptians were using olive oil for all sorts of things, and i have seen some tooled dog collars and quivers from Egyptian tombs that were very impressive and in pretty good shape.
I had a Tandy rep say "Huh?" when I mentioned EVOO, and asked what it was. When I told her, she said "I never heard of it", and she's been involved with leather and Tandy for a long time.
Quote from: JD Alan on March 19, 2010, 10:18:44 AM
I had a Tandy rep say "Huh?" when I mentioned EVOO, and asked what it was. When I told her, she said "I never heard of it", and she's been involved with leather and Tandy for a long time.
JD, this is the problem, there are too many people that are working at jobs, that there job knowledge is very limited, Tandy isn't the Tandy it once was, WC will vouch for this, Tandy used to have some knowledgeable personnel, and maybe they still do in a few limited stores, but as a whole they have young people that just need a job, and are trying to do there best with what little they know, and like Tandy, other company's are in the same shape, I was in a Lowe's a while back, and asked a clerk where the Loc-Tite was kept, now this person told me he had never heard of it, he also volunteered that he had been working at that store for over seven years, and had never heard or seen the product I was asking for, and he even went to the front desk to ask some one there, so we gave up, we happened to be on another isle when my wife said why don't you ask that older man, so I did, and he took me right to the Loc-Tite, they had a whole 8'x8' section of it. And this goes on in most business's today, company's don't want to pay for qualified personnel.
We all need to rely on our own findings, do your home work, and ask questions, the right answer is out there.
tEN wOLVES :D
You guys have got me curious; I'm going to finish a set of holsters with EVOO just to see how they do.
I normally finish a dyed piece with neatsfoot oil followed by Tandy's Satin Shene and then Fiebing's Carnauba Cream. Can I still use the Satin Shene and the Carnauba Cream after EVOO and the sun, or do I need to look at a different product? I've heard you guys talk about Skidmores, but I am unfamiliar with this product. Does Tandy carry Skidmores?
Quote from: TN Mongo on March 19, 2010, 04:29:55 PM
You guys have got me curious; I'm going to finish a set of holsters with EVOO just to see how they do.
I normally finish a dyed piece with neatsfoot oil followed by Tandy's Satin Shene and then Fiebing's Carnauba Cream. Can I still use the Satin Shene and the Carnauba Cream after EVOO and the sun, or do I need to look at a different product? I've heard you guys talk about Skidmores, but I am unfamiliar with this product. Does Tandy carry Skidmores?
Howdy
Yes you can still use your finishes. I don't believe Tandy carries Skidmores.
WC
TW, you're right ol pard there are some folks out there that just don't quite have the horse power they need for the wagon their drivin. I hate it when I get on an airplane and I see the pilot reading the basic flight manual. Now let me say that the manager and most of the folks at the local Tandy store in Austin, Texas know their stuff and I very much enjoy doing business with them. I don't know what they would say about EVOO but try to get some consensus on let's say... gun powder and see how that works out. :) ;) :D ;D
Wiley ;D
Howdy Wiley
Wasn't Terry the Mgr down there for a while?
WC
Mongo, with my limited experience I can't see a difference between applying a light coat Neatsfoot or EVOO. One thing we don't have a lot of in Oregon is sunshine, at least in my part of the state. From what I have deduced it may make a difference if you are not going to dye the leather, but use just the oil finish and allow the sun to do whatever it's going to do.
I had an experienced saddle maker recommend Bee Natural Saddle oil, so I gave that a try, but honest to goodness, I can't see any difference between the three products in look, feel, or absorption. I've left pieces treated with all three in the sun for an entire day, and I don't see any difference. Maybe it takes more time than I've allowed to see a difference. Just my own experience
Howdy Wiley
Like I was saying I'm sure Tandy has competent personnel in some of there stores, I remember when I told an employee of the Tandy store near us that I was using both 100 % pure Neatsfoot oil and EVOO, on different leather pieces, he gave me the same song and dance, and when I explained the history of EVOO to him, he softly spoke, saying Tandy doesn't allow us to promote/ suggest or sell anything they don't sell them selves, and that they could be fired for that. but he also said he had several customers that that used EVOO, and were happy with it, so like I was saying earlier, and as WC pointed out, you could talk to a hundred leather workers and get a hundred different answers, we all need to look into products we're thinking about using before we use them, I don't have stock in EVOO, or anything else associated with leather products, as I think for the most part the others aren't either, I personally use several different products for different uses and looks, and I like to stay open minded as to trying new things, that's part of the fun in this craft. I am grateful to Chuck Burrows and Will Ghromely for tweaking my interests in EVOO, and the natural dyes, I feel a pard can never learn enough.
JD, the difference I've seen between the different oils is that the EVOO, oxidizes faster than the others, thats why I'll use it for a piece that I want a deeper tone, but it does take time, it doesn't happen over night, after sever months you can really see the difference. if I don't want that look I use PURE Neatsfoot oil, it's nice to have all these choices.
tEN wOLVES :D
10 Wolves, I figured there must be something in the amount of time; that 24 hours wasn't enough to see a difference between the 3 types of oil. Thanks for the great education!
Dont use EVOO, you will get it on yer hands and they will wither and get cracks. ;D Just kidding here
I restored an old slim jim that was dry and craked, smelled like mold too. It came back to life and looks like new.
I have used EVOO for over 55 yrs. and I put a dab of it in my dyes, goes a lot easier.
Not too much now, it goes a long ways.
Her's a EVOO job I did, it will last fer ages to come.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o187/JakeHarlow/DSCF0206.jpg)
Very nice Slick, good color nice and rich looking, those straps have a nice sheen to them too, well, and you're right they will last a long time, and I believe the EVOO will help in that.
tEN wOLVES :D
Nice lookin work there Slick!
Thank you TW, yer comments mean a lot to me and the other Pards here on the forum.
I just used dye and EVOO on the straps and they polish up just fine with a wool sock.
Thanks JD, kin I get some lessons from you? Ya do mighty fine craftmanship.
Back to the Cave.
MS
the very best thing to use for oil on vegetable tanned leather is 100% pure neetsfoot oil no matter what any store salesman tells you go to any good custom saddle shop and ask what they use i have been building custom saddles and gunleather for 30 years and i don't use the new green ecofreindly tree hugger stuff i use the tried and tested original dyes and finishes and 100% pure neetsfoot oil. it's the only thing i will use in my shop.
Oh come on willy, tell us how you really feel ;D
well im to nice to say bad things in a good place i do have manners .