Also it looks like its possible to have the hammer down all the way where the firing pin could come into direct contact with a primer when you close the action if you don't have the hammer backed off a notch.
Even if you do have that hammer backed off a notch, could a blow to the hammer or a drop cause the gun to go off?
Load five - with the hammer down in the empty chamber - you'll be safest that way.
The modern-made Smith & Wesson Schofield features a floating hammer, and is safer to carry with six.
During the era - the most common way to load a revolver was with five - the sixth being loaded upon expectation of immediate use.
Since there were relatively few occurrences that actually required it - impending gunfights and shoot-outs being largely a dime novelist's fantasy and exacerbated by Hollywood myth, though an idea beloved by C&WAS shooters - folks back then opted for safety after they'd seen an accidental discharge or two.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
Ok, I'm an old Cop. I've been in 6 standup gunfights. The most rounds I ever fired at one time in a fight was 4. IMO, if more time was spent in target practice very, very few people would need a high capacity handgun. Even now days most, nearly all Officers only fire thier handgun once a year at qualification. You get good and a couple of rounds will settle any trouble you might run into.
If I felt the need to load six in a particular situation, I'd consider whether the hammer/firing pin can be lowered between cartridge rims and if there is sufficient hammer spring force to positively keep it there. A hard blow to the hammer would not cause a discharge.
I consider this a safer alternative than relying on a simple notch in the hammer to keep the FP off the cartridge.
Regards,
Slim
sounds like the smart thing is to treat it like a Colt and have an empty under the hammer
there's only 5 rounds in a boxrow anyways 8)
Call me an old woman! I don't even load six in my Ruger Vaqueros or New Model Blackhawks! As was said, unless I figure to go into a firefight, what's the point? The only single action revolver, original or new that I would even consider loading six is the S&W New Model #3, (EXCLUDING the original TARGET models!!!), or the Barretta "Laramie". These two have rebounding hammers, which physically keeps the firing pin off the primer. Whether dropping the originals on the hammer spurs from four or six feet would break the block and fire the gun, I can't say.
Besides which, most CAS match regulations call for only "five beans in the wheel"!
Ride careful, Pards!
just a side note.....many would be surprised to learn than a goodly number of modern-manufacture shotguns will discharge a round in the chamber when dropped from 4-6 ft, muzzle-down orientation. Based on this, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some floating firing pin revolvers will too. This is also the reason military "carry" method of the 1911 was for an empty chamber........yeah, my method of loading "6" in a single action is safer than some "modern" firearms I can think of.
Regards,
Slim
I copied this from the Schofield tips thread.
From Dave Chicoine's excellent book - Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West' - page 323.
'The Uberti Hammer Block Safety is an integral part of the Navy Arms Schofield, unlike the original Smith and Wesson Schofield, which had no such feature.
This is a simple and reasonably effective spring-loaded, 'sliding bar' type of safety that becomes activated when the hammer is placed in the 1/2 cock position.
Should the hammer fall from the 1/2 cock position due to the gun being dropped, causing sear breakage, the will remain up or in the 'on' position, preventing an accidental discharge.
When the hammer becomes full cocked, the safety pinrides up over the cam on the safety bar so the safety remains in the 'on' position, the safety is pushed back out of the way (to the 'off' position) by the hammer safety pin as the hammer falls from fully-cocked after the trigger is pulled to fire the cartridge.
Hammer block safety oeration can be adversely affected by side-play in the hammer, from a loose hammer stud or a loose fit of the hammer on its stud.'
Again - Good Luck.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
It would be safe to load 6 if the pistol was kept at half cock.
SR
you can only load 5 at an event anyway.
I have two old Navy Arms (Uberti) Schofields, serial #s 900X and 892X ....
I have looked at the hammer assembly and see nothing like a 'safety' system; certainly noting similar to the Ruger Transfers ..,
Could my guns be made before the 'safety systems' were implemented?
Howdy, my Navy Arms Schofields have earlier serial #s than yours and have the safety feature. I don't think you can see the hammer block unless you remove the side plate. The hammer block is located in the cut out where the spring for the barrel latch rides.
Silver Rings
Silver Rings,
Ahh ... that explains it!
The only other pistol that I had (with a safety device) was an old Ruger Security six with a transfer bar ... which was very visible when one pulled back the trigger.
I was looking for something obvious like that
I understand that there is a way to remove the safety since there is one, but I think I will keep mine just as they are ... they are both better shots than I am, and make me seem much better than I actually am ...
Tell me if this is incorrect.
Any revolver made outside of the USA cannot be imported unless it has some sort of hammer bocking safety. I had read years ago that the Ubertis are shipped in as "parts," then assembled and "Made in USA." This is how the transfer bar thing is skirted. I have an older Navy arms Schofield made by Uberti, and a brand new #3 Russian, and both guns lack any sort of transfer bar. The Berettas must be fully put together in Italy, therefore must have that gawd-awful transfer bar.
That's my take on it anyway.
I closely handled and examined a current Uberti Schofield (not Beretta, not Taylor, not Navy though I understand Uberti makes them all) and saw no 'sliding bar' or transfer bar per se. Is it there but not so obvious on this model? I did notice that with the hammer in the all the way down position (as it will be when you have fired the cylinder empty) the firing pin is down all the way to the point where it would make contact with a primer when you reload 6 and close the action, a potentially extremely dangerous situation.
If, indeed it is safe to carry 6 in the half notch position you will have to get religious about putting it there before you close it loaded with 6 or you could possibly have an accidental discharge.
Quote from: kcub on March 25, 2010, 05:09:53 AM
..............If, indeed it is safe to carry 6 in the half notch position you will have to get religious about putting it there before you close it loaded with 6 or you could possibly have an accidental discharge.
Best bring the hammer up to the first notch with any of the top-break Smiths that do not have a rebounding hammer if your planning to close the action with a round under the firing pin (whether your loading 1 or 6).
Regards,
Slim
I picked up my Uberti 5" nickel and pearl .38 and read the (fine) manual.
They say when breaking always have it on the half notch. In fact they say keep it on the half notch all the time. Since the cylinder rotates freely in that position you can't effectively keep an empty under the hammer anyway so it must be ok with 6.
A gunsmith I respect told me the Navy Arms Schofields tended to be better shooters than the Ubertis. I hope mine shoots to point of aim, he said there is not much you can do if they don't.
Actually, there is...
Review some of the threads in the 'Shooter's Forum' and you'll see a number that deal with sighting-in a fixed sight revolver.
And think about this.
If you load five and lower the hammer 'all' the way down onto that empty chamber - as single-action revolver users have done for over a century (must be because it's safe and it works) - then when you do cock the weapon, you 'know' you're in business.
The half-cock notch 'can' break - and given the metallurgy in some Italian clones, that's well within the realm of possibility.
'Why' do you think you 'need' to load all six, anyway - what's the approaching threat you're not telling the rest of us about?
If you can't put the target down with the first round or so - all you do is piss him off...
Scouts Out!
St. George, I couldn't agree more about 5 rounds and hammer fully down on the empty cylinder. Nothing can go wrong and everything is under control that way and that's exactly what I'm going to do.
That's the way I always do my Colts and Ruger Old Models, not that that matters since they are different models.
I was just iterating what the manufacturer says to do which I happen to disagree with other than you do need to have it on the half notch before you break.
Or do you? If you've shot the gun dry, and hammer is fully down on a fired case, is it OK to break open or will it damage the hand or some other part?
Nothing will be damaged - the firing pin 'will' retract behind the recoil plate - even on the original Schofields.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
Quote from: kcub on March 31, 2010, 07:01:03 PM
They say when breaking always have it on the half notch. In fact they say keep it on the half notch all the time. Since the cylinder rotates freely in that position you can't effectively keep an empty under the hammer anyway so it must be ok with 6.
Very doubtful then that the Italians are familiar with the phrase "going off half-cocked" or one of the variants thereof? ;)
BTW kcub, you have to put the hammer to the half-cock notch before the latches an be released.