This is a pattern I used to make a holster for the 1911 to be used in competition. It is little more than a copy of others designs and the tensioning device is/was quite common. I gave it to my son several years back and he claims it makes an excellent carry/concealment holster. I couldnt find the original pattern so we get to experiment together. This is the complete pattern and will consist of three pieces of leather that should go together pretty easily. Open it with one of the good art programs and it should print out on one standard sheet of paper to full scale. The dash line represents the belt loop while the dotted line is an option that I actually like better though the angle of cant is somewhat less.
The three pieces of leather that needs to be cut plus the hardware bag with the tensioner parts. Besides the holster body there is a liner and a belt loop. The end nippers and that small piece of leather tied to the plastic bag will be described later. This should be as close to a beginners holster project as I know of, with sewing skills being the main requirement.
Sorry about the photo, it was jet black from the camera so I am surprised I even saved it. The first step with our cut pieces is to get these four holes punched and not that the ones in the liner are larger than those in the holster. Punch the two smaller holes, a #4 punch, in the main holster where indicated. Getting an accurate transfer of these holes to the liner is important for a good end result so get it right. Lay the holster precisely within those traced lines on the liner and then trace through those two punched holes onto the liner. You will punch 3/8"*** holes into the liner and to be correct the holsters holes should be perfectly centered within the larger liner holes. This will be it for tonight and if you would like to wait until I finish before starting, well it would let me make the mistakes for you to correct.
***My tubing was 3/8" od and this hole needs to match 'YOUR' tubes od, 7/16" would be even slightly better.
Oh boy, we get to follow another one through to the finish. This will be a good thread. Thanks, Bob.
Well Bob, I really appreciate you doing these. I made a holster from your last 1911 project, and I'm still working on the shotgun belt, which I'm finding rather challenging to get right. I'm trying all the various pouch methods to find the one that works best for me.
I also made a pair of holsters from the SAA pattern you posted a while back that turned out real well.
I tell people I made the holsters but my friend Slowhand Bob designs them. I will definitely give this one a try!
Keep'm coming, JD
JD, my friend, I received a call from our pard Ten Wolves the other night and we chawed some of this stuff over for a spell, while watching the same old Ward Bond western on tv. One of the things that came out was the fact that this old fellow aint ever had an original design or idea in his life, but I did watch others a lot and if you will keep my secret, I collected every secret I could from them. On this one, you can see its roots in a lot of designs that were popular in the eighties and it actually looks a lot like the cut off model on the Kytac site I posted and the tensioner is very similar. Well I think I will slip out to the shop and see if its dry enough for glueing the liner in.
I do understand that one Bob. Every week when I study for my Sunday message I think about the fact that thousands of others over hundreds of years have read these same passages and spoken about them. Just about the time you think you've come up with something fresh and original, you end up reading the same thing that someone else wrote two or three hundred years ago.
The only saving grace I have is that most people don't read all the writings from those guys. Now, if I use a direct line from someone, I always give them credit!
Even with my limited experience I find myself modifying the patterns I've received; some just little bit, some a little bit more. I really appreciate all the guys who've sent me patterns, believe me!
Howdy Slowhand Bob
It was good talking to you yesterday, that was a good western movie, thank God for the western channel, LOL, I just copied your design/pattern, and enlarged it to 146% in order to fill the page, I don't have a 1911 yet, but I do have a BBgun that's the same Milspec, I'm looking forward to making one of your holsters, I/we appreciate you taking the time to do this, and to post the pattern, and as for coping other folks patterns goes, I think the designers would be proud to know we are using their designs, what would we do without them, yea we'd get by, but a good idea will always stand out, Bob you're one of those pards that is just good at putting things together and that's that. :D 8)
Now I'll see what I can do with this, I hope I don't mess it up
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
This should give a better view of whats going on than the earlier photo. In the larger picture the lamination to the liner has been made and the other picture shows the details of the hole overlays from, the liner side, with a small piece of scrap tubing inserted. The tube is just to illustrate why I like to do the hole with a recess, it locks one end of the tube in place while some of the tee nut shanks protrusion captures the other end of the tube. Note the larger through holes on the right side (back) of the holster, these will have the tee nuts ibserted later. I am leaving the finish off for now so the work will show up better.
SH Bob that going to turn into a very nice piece. KT
Good pictures SB, I had to copy the first pattern and enlarge it to 146% to get it to fill the length of my copy paper, but it doesn't fill the width, could you give us some measurements at the highest points width and length, this last picture with the carved horse fills the paper, but seems like it might be a little large, measurements would really help to at least know if We/I have sized the pattern right.
That horse is Awesome, and so is the scallops around it, WELL DONE Pard ::) :o 8)
tEN wOLVES :D
Bob, thanks for the pics. It makes it easier to understand what you're doing. That will really look good when you're finished. I agree with TW about the horse. Looking forward to the finished piece.
TWF, that center (fold) line on the main pattern measures exactly 4 11/16 inches. These can actually be copied directly from the post and print out to size on my computer using either Paintshop Pro or Adobe Photo Elements. Its funny but the little program furnished by Microsoft doesnt work, go figure??? Actually kinda another quicky Marshall and my work has really gotten to where its showing a lack of time taken to do things right. If you look closely at the machine stitching below you will see what happens when one tries to go fast when he is not going very often!
The stitching was left open where the top of the belt loop will overlay, though I did do about two stitches worth of encroachment on each side. The belt loop can now be matched closely to the top lines and glued along that top edge to hold things for stitching there first. If you look close I think you can tell where I rolled that upper area where the belt will pass through after completion, this was to allow for a slight amount of wet fitting the belt later. Note that the wear angle will follow the top line of the holster and the double stitch should add strength to the top edge.
Before going any further it is time to add the two tee nuts under the belt loop. Before we do this it is probably best to shorten the barbs on the tee nuts. I use a pair of end nippers for this and like to take them down about half way (whatever prevents excessive protrusion on the bottom side). I hope you can see the difference between the altered and unaltered versions in the picture.
Now you want to lift the belt loop from the bottom and place a tee nut in each of the two holes. Using a piece of heavy scrap leather under the holster lightly tap the tee nuts down until the botton of their tubes pretty much stop the show against the scrap leather. Now if you punch a hole in the scrap thats large enough for the tee nuts tube to enter, you can drive them down fairly close to flat.
The bottom tee will be captured by the belt loop but the top one will not but there are a couple of options for it. On the orriginal that my son has I glued the arrangement down good top to bottom and glued on a 2/3oz round plug. It has held well for many years. Another option would be to leave the prongs uncut and stake them over from the inside after being driven through. Lastly there is another type tee that does not have barbs but rather just has small holes in its ring for specialty attachments, just right for sewing. Just to see what will happen, I am going to leave it as driven based on the idea that the screw should be tight enough to hold it in place.
With the tee nuts in place I laid a 1 1/2" strap (my belt width choice) under the loop and with a bit of effort I indexed things tight enough to establish my belts bottom stitch line placement. Notice that I laid my stitch line out to avoid the bottom tee nut. After sewing the bottom of the belt loop down, you can see that I then trimmed the excess holster liner off.
Looks like a dreary rainy day in old Charleston this morning, sure has been a nastier than normal winter so far. Even the little dogs do not seem to enjoy going out any longer than is required to take care of business! Guess I will put my old rain coat on and slosh out to the shop to finish with this holster.
Before full wet bending I am going to put a friends initials at the bottom and since I placed the horse design low, things will be a bit cramped. Something we need to achieve with this, and it can be done without metal, is to have a stiff finished holster with some spring to its horseshoe type fold over. We do not desire that it wrap the gun like our regular construction would do. My thought is to wet the leather with warmer than normal water for making the bend AND a bend is all the shaping there is to this holster. Before starting the wetting I also want to have something available to size the belt loop to my 1 1/2" while it dries.
Thoughts on the belt fit and angle might help some here. I like my carry/competition holsters to be snug on a 1 1/2" belt as that is what I wear with jeans 90% of the time and I actually do like a tight fit to belt. Another advantage to the extra tight fit is that on those occasions that I am forced (kickin an screamin) to wear dress-ups with the narrow 1 1/4" belt loops, well the tighter ones are now not quite as sloppy. One can control the angle of carry by adjusting the top pattern line and/or stitching line, to some degree on this. Though this projec is pretty much there by now, I'll still post a picture when it is wet, folded and has the molding parts inserted.
Thanks for doing this for all of us Bob, I'm coping all this to make a folder for my shop, so that it will be handy, you do a nice job of explaining this.
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
NOTE: A NEWLY CORRECTED PATTERN HAS REPLACED THE ORIGINAL. Disreguard further comments and photos below regarding poor fit.
Not to sure about my redneck splaining but the holster, when done right is a neat little behind the hip carry model. But alas, after wetting and folding I find that in the transferring from an assembled model to a paper pattern, it seems to have grown in width by about 3/4" to 1". Though it actually looks ok, the extra wiggle room does require that you cut the tubing slightly shorter to get more tension. When I clean up the original pattern, and add notes, I will do a width compression while keeping the height the same, an easy PSP fix. I will then replace the orriginal pattern on here and make another holster doing something else a little different also. The aluminum flat you see under it is for shaping the belt loop and it should give you an idea of the amount of rear muzzle cant.
In photo 2 you can see the excess width, easily enough that I could have actually sewn that edge together!. In this view the top is down but starting from the projects top surface you have the screw passing through the finsh washer then the face of the leather, through the vinyl spacer and screwing into the tee nut thats embedded in the back surface of the holster. From here any finish work will be up to you and I think some of these lines, especially the belt loop, could be made more attractive. I will try to clean this up a bit over the next few days and if there are any questions or suggestions feel free to jump in.
Bob, that's a good looking design. Simple and effective. I like it. Thanks for the finished pics.
Nice job Bob, it came together real well, so you say the leather spread that much, I've had that happen too, so you're going to tighten up the pattern a bit? the initials look good and is a nice touch, I'm going to look forward to doing one of these, the pattern is very straight forward. I just wish I could get this confuser to copy things in the right scale, it sure would make things easier.
We'll keep our eyes open for your alterations and changes, it really looks great, Thanks for doing this. :D
tEN wOLVES
How's this one?
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/LoneRiderLeather/VanceMontanaWBRig.jpg
Very Cool Lone Rider, I like it!
Ned
Well done Lone Rider, thanks for sharing pard, that's a beautiful rig,
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
Quote from: LoneRider on January 21, 2010, 04:19:39 PM
How's this one?
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/LoneRiderLeather/VanceMontanaWBRig.jpg
HOT DANG!
Lone Rider , Now thats what I call nice. KT
Great to see you here Lonerider, as indicated over on the WIRE, I am a fan of your work and design expertise.
Thanks All ;D
I make quite a few WB Rigs, not so fancy. That one was a Special Order.
Yes I have seen pictures of it posted by the proud owner over on the WIRE, with large amounts of praise. I hope to make a couple of matches up your way in the summer, hope to meet you if you are shooting. I would love to see you post more of your special projects on here, there is no doubt in my mind that leather crafters are amongst the most innovative and inventive foke around in this Modern America.
LoneRider that is really an outstanding rig. I agree with the other guys, I would sure like to see more pictures of your work posted here. That one is a real inspiration. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Slowhand Bob, this has been a great thread. I know it takes a lot of extra effort to take pictures and post them here but I sure appreciate it; it's like having a leather working school on line. I had a hard time visualizing this one until you showed it finished with the gun in it, then it made sense to me. (remember, I'm kinda slow with this stuff) :P
JD, I am in that same boat pard but when we get it its got. ;) Another thought while yall are waiting for me to finish playing cowboy this weekend is that perhaps using 8/9oz leather for the holster over a 2/3oz liner might take up most of the excess room I had with mine. I will try that before changing the pattern and do a quick and dirty rivet job (no sewing) on the belt loop, to make this quicker and easier yet. Another thought that has crossed my mind is a quick attach belt clip BUT I have never found a metal one that I like for sale. I think someone should come out with a version that has a small J-hook on the bottom. In my experience they are far superior in their retaining value, especially when made to fit the belt sizes properly.
That's a very fine rig, LoneRider. It looks good. Nice work.
Save the pattern Bob, I didn't and I'm kicking myself.
I made a holster 5 yrs. ago, Glock 9mm for my Frin up in ND.
Here's a pik, hope yulll excuse the link.
I took the measurments from the gun and it worked great
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o187/JakeHarlow/GregsHolster.jpg
Willl also fit a 1911
MS
Montana, my problem is that I always save patterns BUT if they were works in progress I can never remember what I had in mind AND if it was a ready pattern I lose it over time!!!! I finished a newly resized holster that is perhaps a better fit than the first one I made, though these are not actually as critical in fit as a standard holster style. It is in the shop drying and it is my hope that the wife will help me clean up the new pattern tonight with Adobe. I am now curious as to what existing pistol the first pattern might work with? It would have to be something that uses a patter of about 3/4" wider than the 1911, perhaps a Glock????
I used a Glock for this pattern and a 1911 would be a little loose but not that bad.
I think it's the length that matters the most.
The pattern in my first post has been replaced by a corrected version and even illustrates a second cut added at the mouth that like better and even offers a bit less muzzle rear cant, if you so desire. I find that when I carry concealed with the firearm carried behind my stronside hip, the farther back the carry, the more cant I desire.
Most critical notes are included on the pattern and using 8/9oz leather over a 2/3oz liner has really improved the rigidity of the holster. The versions pictured below have 1 1/4" 8-32 cheep machine screws but something better with a length of one inch should be a better fit. If I have missed any needed details please let me know.
As you can see from the photo I played around with the design a bit, also notice that these used rivets for attaching the belt loops. Before putting this pattern away and starting on a metal liner attempt, it is my intention to make one more holster from it with another twist. I want to do a version of the old Tight Rope style (COB) carry and this will have a couple of interesting design differences in that the belt loop would use a snap on/off design and there would be a shirt (snag) protector rise built in.
Looks good SHB.
Bro. Slick, I like the Glock holster you made for your friend.
The holster's look great Bob, I can't wait to make one for my ownself, well done
tEN wOLVES
Slowhand very nice job. Great color and design. I like. KT
Very nice work, Bob. I like both holsters equally. You're right, dfepending on where it rides, one may want more or less cant. Good pics.
Slowhand I want to thank you for posting all this info. I have a glock that belongs to a friend that I am going to make a holster for just for practice so I will be using some of your ideas in the next few days. He thinks nylon is the only thing to put a gun in so I thought I could get some experience and maybe change his mind all in one wack.
For anyone who might be new to leather work lurking about looking for a simple project, this can become literally a cut and rivet job through the use of heavy leather. Something in a good 10 to 12 ounce leather should be about right for making the holster without the gluing and stitching. The one exception on your leather needs will be the belt loop, which needs something a little lighter weight like eight to nine ounce leather. Eight nine oz leather is always a handy project size but there is not much use for the left over heavier leather, unless you like really heavy belts.
Quote from: Texas Lawdog on January 28, 2010, 02:02:27 PM
Bro. Slick, I like the Glock holster you made for your friend.
Thanks Bro. Tex, just wished I'd saved the pattern, might just get and old Army holster and go from there.
Got a buscelero pattern today, looks kinda like a level 10 ;D
Montana, it is pretty simple to make a pattern from an existing photo of your desired holster, even for someone like me without any artistic ability (thank God for computers). The main requirement is that the picture be a relatively straight on front image and autos are generally easier than revolvers to boot. Normally the hard part of copying photos, such as in PACKING IRON lies in the fact that most illustrators never think about giving us a view of the back.
What's the fuss about patterns?
A photo or drawn image will give you the style. Draw around your pistol, or revolver, for the profile and a second line 3/4 inch out. Fold and cut for the body shape on the outer line.
Get a strip of leather the same weight as your holster material. Wrap it around critical spots requiring a specific dimension and pinch the ends of the strap with 3/4 inch the spare. Measure the length and that will be about right. Add the same 3/4 inch to the length for the muzzle finish.
I use heavy target paper to make a more substantial pattern. It will be about the right firmness with pliability to fold over the gun to verify if the pattern is about right.
For a Mexican loop pattern, the angle of the back flap is a bit of a trick. Shape it one way for a forward cant, and the other way for a crossdraw rake. Paper is cheap to figure it out.
After a while, experience will tell you how to get it right the first time.
Thanks Pard fer the info.
I made the Glock Western from the measurements of the gun, turned out great, that was 5 yrs.go.
Here's a shoulda: Made a template, dang my hide :)
How hard do you think it would be to modify this for a sig p225? It would make an awesome off duty holster!!!! Concelement isnt a big thing round here as everyone is used to seeing me with a gun on and off duty.......
Marshal Cy Clone
Cy, it shouldn't be hard for you to do at all. This is not fitted in the traditional sense anyway. Basically the screws govern what gun will slide down in the channel with a close enough fit for the screws to do the final tension desired. Some of these guys use a strap to get their sizes zoomed in, perhaps someone will splain it to us OR perhaps the video from Jim Simmons would be in order.
Slowhand Bob, I modified it for my sig P6 / P225 off duty gun. I love that little surplus west german pistol and carry it all the time over my other guns, but hate nylon holsters. Its not quite finished and this was made with scrap leather, and not very good quality leather either. I did line it with 4oz and I am going to make another with better leather, when I can afford to buy some leather. This was all I had left, some Tandy inport leather. I used the t-nuts, and I used auto Vaccum hose to cover the tension screw its heavier and I was worried about the frame from getting damaged by the threads. Its a slick little design Bob, and I even tried carving a badge in the leather. It worked pretty good and looks better than in the picture. I learned alot from making this one. I've never used a quality leather and am wondering does it dye better than this cheap stuff? Hold up better? just curious...... Sorry the picture isn't better quality, Im just kinda excited about this one n wated someone to see it.......... Thanks again for providing us with this pattern.........I love it!!!(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/badasp/_MediaCard_BlackBerry_pictures_IMG0.jpg)
I think you turned out a really good looking little holster there Cy. I found a good source for buying the parts in stainless but still have not found just the right stainless screw yet. It may not even exist but I wish that a Phillips pan head with threads only on the end 1/2" to 1/3" and the rest of the shank unturned. It would make for a pretty screw head, since it must show, and be very professional looking rather than a hardware store contraption.
In times past we have had some pretty in depth discussions appear on here concerning black leather dye, of a military or police quality (deep and shiny). I think everyone has problems with it remaining steadfast now days and requires special techniques and sealing but I am definitely not the one to address this. I like to use one coat of dark blue followed by at least two or three coats of black with lots of hard and heavy handed (to the point of burnishing) buffing between coats. If I had to do much black you can bet that I would look for something better than I use but I simply avoid it on the outside whenever possible! (call me chicken)
Howdy MCC
Nice job.
Some import leathers work better than others but not as good as the 2 tanned in the USA.
WC
PS: Cy this old holster thread is getting a bit worn and you might do better with a new thread on black leather dye. At worst we might get some links to past information.
I'm gonna kick this thread back up to the top. I'm trying to print out the pattern in the program Bob suggested, but it's coming out about one inch square.
If anyone has printed out this pattern with success I would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks!
JD, from this forum, I first click on the image (I guess it is a thumbnail?) to get it to expand/enlarge. When it does enlarge I right click on the mouse to get a drop down menu. From this menue I left click on the 'Save As' selection.This allows me to save it under the file of my choice, on my pc, and in the jpeg format. Since this was actually uploaded in this format it comes back to my computer the same way and I can open it with PSP or Adobe for a real size print out. One thing to look at is the print size that shows up when you are ready to send the image to the printer, it should read 100%. At the outset I had hoped we would be able to work out a method by which patterns could be easily exchanged between our various computers and their programs but I fear that I am not puter knowledgeable enough to make that work. I am still playing with the idea of a competitive 1911 Wild Bunch rig as time and chores permeit and hope to get a chance to finish another working model tomorrow. If it is anywhere close to the right lines and fit I will take some pictures.
I finally got the thing to print. I was sending the thumnail to my wife to print through one of her computer programs
Thanks Bob!
Glad you got it, JD. You have to admit, though, a one-inch pattern would save a lot of leather. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
This picture purty much shows the evolution of this holster from the earlier pattern I posted here. The one on the left being a nice pattern on its own merit but I wanted to try something with heavier leather and a cut down pattern, it is lined though. The next two are the actual Darwinian versions. Kinda looks like I was hitting the brandy when I stamped the Southern Pride version! The items sticking up are mag pouches.