I'm going to visit my first NCOWS match this weekend. Sad to say, I don't own a single cowboy hat. I know better than to buy something expensive - that needs to wait till I have some sense of what kind of persona I'd be. However, I'm 100% planning on visiting a number of matches (both NCOWS and SASS) over time so it seems reasonable to get at least something that kinda works within the genre.
Can anyone recommend somewhere I can get something inexpensive, just to kinda "fit in" on a temporary basis?
I'm live smack dab in the middle of Dallas/Ft. Worth so I have access to a number of major western stores - I just don't know which one to even begin looking at for something that's on the inexpensive side.
If you're looking for a felt hat just buy any cheap hat that fits. Wear it in the shower about 4 days running. push out the crown when it's good and wet. When it kinda starts getting dry jam it on your hat. By the 4th time it outta start looking like a real worked in hat. Might not hurt to kick it around the backyard a while too. It's easier starting out to look trail worn.
For a straw starter hat buy a palm hat, wet it and kinda shape it like you want it to look.
This Fall go to downtown Ft Worth to an older hat shop. Tell'm you're looking for a late 800s type hat. They ought to know.
I can't imagine not wearing a hat. It almost takes my breath away.
If you wear it in the shower make sure it ain't a wool felt, most of them will not hold their shape when wet.
If you can find someone that stocks the 4X Rodeo Kings, in open flats look toward one of them, not cheap, but not expensive either, should run a little over a $100 with tax. Wear it as is and let it take on it's own shape or if you decide on a shape hollor and I'll give you some advice on shaping it. Or run it up here and I'll be glad to do it for you. ;)
Added:
Look this thread over in case you end up in a store that don't have a good hat fitter. Best to get the right size and have them or someone elongate it to fit your head, that way they stay one you head when the wind blows.
In a Sunbody palm leaf, yook at the one they call a Sam Houston, Dr. Bob has one in his avatar, got that Tejas look to it and gives good shade in the sun.
www.riverjunction.com/catalog/hats/hats.html
Also look here at offerings by River Junction Trade. Good site to see lots of different shapes.
The important concept, - any hat that is appropriate for NCOWS will automatically be good for SASS. Not necessarily the other way around. Buy cheap for NCOWS appropriate and you're good to go for any other CAS organization.
Frumpy and trail worn does not automatically make for a period correct hat.
RCJ
Goodwill & Thrift Stores heck, in Tejas I'll bet they have good XXX Fir hats for cheap ...Use steam from a tea kettle to soften and reshape
Del is the man, to coach you there. ;)
But stay away from Shady Brady ( style Richard Petty wears ) and the Straw Stetson & Restol hats ... They won't even pass SASS muster.
Sunbody Hats (palm hat) like the one Doc has
http://www.sunbody.com/category.cfm?Category=3&CFID=5835783&CFTOKEN=16851758
SunBody Hats
The Leader in Palm-Leaf Hats
3580 E. TC Jester Blvd
Houston, TX 77018
Toll Free: 1-800-310-7093 Phone:713.861.5133 Fax:713.861.0619
Check out the ON SALE link
BTW there are about 10 dealers in D/FW
http://www.sunbody.com/dealerlist.cfm?startrow=76&state=TX
I'm sure you've figured out that "cheap" is a relative term.....a good buy on an authentic style hat need not set you waay back.
I bought a nice lightweight fur-felt hat at a Stetson "outlet" store for under $75, including tax. This was an unshaped style, very authentic. It can be hand shaped using a steam kettle to warm or just wear it an let it develop character.
I've stopped at a number of the stores in DFW area......I'm sure you'll find something.
The hat is a real necessity when you shoot an 1866, 1873 or other top-ejecting rifle.
Regards,
Slim
I'm grateful for the links that have been posted. Funny thing is I stopped at Cavender's on the way home just to check things out and found a couple of those Gus style palm leaf hats that I liked and could afford. I like that Sam Houston model as well but I didn't notice any of those. I'll keep my eyes open for 'em.
@RCJ,
"The important concept..." that's exactly why I posted this question in this forum. I wanna make sure I hold up under the stricter standards. Thanks for confirming that!
Have no fear, your answer is here:
Stetson/Resistol Hats Outlet Store
721 Marion Dr
Garland, TX 75042
972.494.0337
That place is a treasure trove of hat bargains. They often have a plethora of great hats REAL cheap. I've walked out of there with 4 felt hats under $100 total. Some days they'll have a buy one, get one 1/2 price style of sale.
Plan on spending at least 2 hours there. The hats are roughly sorted by size, so you have to do lots of searching and trying. They have an in house hat shaper that will give you a custom crease if you like. They usually have alot of 'old west' styles as these don't seem to sell well to the rodeo / urban cowboy crowd.
Regarding the "Gus" hat and "Gus" crease: if you get into the particulars of hat history, you'll find this style of hat is a rather modern design. It will not get you thrown out of a SASS or NCOWS shoot, but Ottawa Creek Bill may pull you aside for a good talkin-to.
Just a warning . . . I hauled my pard Mansfield Slim in there back about a year ago. I don't believe he owned a cowboy hat prior. Now he holds the #3 rank for the Smokeless Shootist category at the NCOWS Nationals. Like a wise fella once said: A real good cowboy hat can get you in some real good trouble.
Pancho
Thanks for the info Pancho. I'll check 'em out.
I take it I can ask for "old west" styles and be fairly safe? My preliminary research suggests the "Boss of the Plains" hat would be a real good choice, but the one's I've seen so far are out of my price range right now. Maybe the outlet will have something close to that...
Panco, if you guys keep calling it a "Gus" I'll agree, but there are examples of several types of "pinch slope" hats in the period. Next thing ya know yer gonna be callin' them things around yer neck a "wild rag" and not the proper 19th Century term. ;) A name on a hat is just a name and 99% of so called Gus hats look nothing like the one Gus wore. ::)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/hatfrom13130.jpg)
Of course I always figured this guy from the 1880's out in Custer County is waitin' to buy tickets to a Brooks and Dunn concert. ;D
In an era that folks shaped their hats the way the wanted instead of following a movie or CMT anything can pop out of the woodwork. ;)
Quote from: kflach on August 17, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
Thanks for the info Pancho. I'll check 'em out.
I take it I can ask for "old west" styles and be fairly safe? My preliminary research suggests the "Boss of the Plains" hat would be a real good choice, but the one's I've seen so far are out of my price range right now. Maybe the outlet will have something close to that...
Don't ask for a Boss of the Plains at the Steson outlet, the current Stetson "Boss of the Plains" looks like something you'd wear to a modern rodeo. (As a Fan of course, a lot of the cowboys are more creative than that, I know, I work on hats for a lot of them that don't want to look like the fans.) ;)
Presenting, the modern Stetson "Boss of the Plains.: ::)
http://www.stetsonhat.com/search.php
They call their recreation of the original "Boss of the Plains" and Austral. ::)
http://www.stetsonhat.com/collections.php?prod_id=87
BTW these fairly new bison hair hats are good stuff, well worth the money, I've got a "Big 4" the original factory shaped "Montana Peak" and it is a danged good hat for the $99.98 (less my employee's discount) it cost, don't seen to be on their site any more though.
Aha! That confirms it - I was at the Stetson web site a little while ago and thought the BOP looked all wrong. I liked that Austral but the name made it sound Australian. I really like that Bat Masterson derby - and I've seen a number of pictures that suggest it's appropriate. It's more in line with what I'd see myself wearing long-term.
I'll keep my fingers crossed and we'll see what's actually available at the Outlet when I get there.
Thanks for that info. This is actually quite interesting, even though my head's spinning a bit. <grin>
That derby is very appropriate as a dress hat, I'd own one, if I didn't look so scary in them. Just get a fur felt that fits and we can shape it how you want via PM or right here in public. ;)
Quote from: kflach on August 17, 2009, 11:31:10 PM
Aha! That confirms it - I was at the Stetson web site a little while ago and thought the BOP looked all wrong. I liked that Austral but the name made it sound Australian. I really like that Bat Masterson derby - and I've seen a number of pictures that suggest it's appropriate. It's more in line with what I'd see myself wearing long-term.
I'll keep my fingers crossed and we'll see what's actually available at the Outlet when I get there.
Thanks for that info. This is actually quite interesting, even though my head's spinning a bit. <grin>
If it's Derby or Bowler style ...we found nice one at a Costume shop $20 NIB ( lined rabbit fur mix )
I help my pard MT Chambers , outfit himself on a budget
That Bowler, and a trip to Goodwill eariler in the day netted ...a pair of dark brown Corduroy trousers $4 ( 30 min to remove the belt loops and sew on suspender buttons.
We even bought a pullover 3 button Muslin shirt that must have been donated by a CW Reenactor..it was a C&D Jarnigan shirt
$3 :o
Then off to that costume shop for the Bowler & a pair of red fancy sleeve garders @ $5
$32 bucks spent and MT Chambers... highwayman & nar do well is fleshed out
Added a pair of well worn boots ( Roper's) he had, with tassel thingy removed, a Remington C&B and a slimjim & belt ,I made him & his SXS
He cuts quite the wag !
http://www.buycostumes.com/Derby-Hat/5810/ProductDetail.aspx?REF=SCE-froogle
with some imagination at Thrift shop can be a gold mine ;)
Texas Jack's in Fredricksburg, Texas has a hat called "Trail Boss" that looks like the BOP. It only comes in a tan color and sells for $78. I ordered one, but I have not received it yet. It should pass muster for NCOWS.
I don't mean to hijack this thread--lots of good information here. But it's raised a question I often wonder about: the authenticity of straw hats. I've studied lots of period photos and all the westerners wear felt. The only old photos I've found of straw hats are civil war era, plantation hats. They're pretty beat up, the kind the slaves would wear, or Huckleberry Finn. Not suiting to my degree of vanity.
Living in Tenn., a straw hat is a must. I've worn felt in the summer and it was like putting a small, humid oven on my head. I'd like to find a straw hat that would lower the temp but still pass muster as an authentic style. Any suggestions? Del, you still here?
About once a day, go on Craigslist and click on the 'For Sale' heading. Once inside for sale, there will be a 'search engine'. I put cowboy in there, and then anything with 'cowboy' in the ad will come up.
I have bought three pairs of near new cowboy boots for under $45 each, and have bought Stetsons out of estate sales for $25 to $35 ..... even got spurs from there .....
JD, the two styles of palm leaf/straw that I see as common in photos are like these from Sunbody, the second one is listed as a womens hat, but was common on men. Others I am not sure either way.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/hats/hg5bN_575.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/hats/hge_575.jpg)
I'm planning on hitting some Goodwill stores like you mentioned. I'm trying to take it a bit slow though, because there's still so much to get. I figure the most obvious first thing is the hat. If I get that I should still be able to wear my jeans, a long sleeve shirt and my (not cowboy) boots this weekend. I'll look like exactly what I am - a first-time visitor - but I'll at least have the basics roughly covered. Over the next few weeks I can do more shopping.
It's all part of my Evil Master Plan: shop smart and keep the expenses 'low profile' so that I can afford to buy more guns (without causing my wife to leave a mess in her britches). Then buy the fancy clothing. Then buy more guns. Muhahahahaha!
And most importantly, have fun!
-----
Regarding palm leaf vs. Felt, it seems that here in Texas the palm would be better because of the heat. However, the felt would be a bit more customizable as far as the look (can you reshape palm?) and would last longer.
Just in case we have any lurkers following this thread, I've found this link to an illustrated article on authentic hats ("In Search Of The Real Cowboy Hat" http://www.curtrich.com/hats.html).
I found the link while visiting Captain Baylor's Ranger Camp (http://www.curtrich.com/captbaylorsrangercamp.html) which appears to have a number of well done, illustrated articles on CAS.
kflatch, palm leaf hats are shaped by wetting them good, they are one of the easiest to shape for newbies. Both those I posted pictures of really don't need any shaping.
The best way to tell the quality of a felt hat is to rub it on your cheek, the better the hat, the smoother and softer the feel.
A wool felt is rough feeling, a 100% beaver fur is very soft and smooth and tends to be thinner. The exception to this is the bison hair ones which are very rough feeling but very waterproof and hold their shape very well.
There is no industry standard for the rating and one companies 5X may be better or worse than another companies 5X.
If buying a custom hat, always ask the hatter the quality of the fur and what kind it is made up of. If they don't know or won't tell look elsewhere.
Old school that the good custom hatters use is 5X is 50X beaver, 10X is 100% beaver. Anything beyond involves where on the beaver the fur comes from. A 20X should be just belly hair and a 100X is the thin strip on the bottom of the belly. A true 100X is the only true silverbelly and is never dyed.
Information above is good, generally ignore all modern terminology for hat shapes. Just because a sutler advertises a hat with a particular shape mixed within other hats that look correct does not mean it is in fact a 19th century clone, with all due respect to hat store owners - they are in business to make money. If you like the hat, chances are they will provide you with the appropriate history for its existence. Somewhere out there exists a picture that might be 19th century of somebody with a hat that by sheer chance is sorta close to something that you like. Doesn't mean it was common or associated with whoever it is you are portraying.
As a general rule that will cover you under all circumstances and for about any persona for the 19th century, get a hat with an uncreased crown that is low - not over 5 inches, and has a brim of around 4 inches give or take an inch. Think Amish style hat.
By the way if you want cheap and period correct to get you started and for under $40:
www.shop.com/Adult_Amish_Hat-36403959-48775313-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298 (http://www.shop.com/Adult_Amish_Hat-36403959-48775313-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298)
I would not wear that baby in a heavy down pour and not expect to see some immediate pc wear showing up. But this will get you through a season of shooting in a style that no one can fault.
Still to expensive? Try
www.realamishhats.com/ (http://www.realamishhats.com/)
For $20 you take your chances, but that will get you started. For examples look below - Say who is that handsome fellow on the left in that stylish hat, must be one of those Amish NCOWS folks? And the fellow on the right who put that dandy crease in the left side of his hat when he accidentally sat on it? Sharp dressers both!!!!
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x80/Jhunt67/NCOWS20092BW.jpg)
photo credit to OCB
A while back in The Historical Society it was said by someone that men tended to take good care of their hats in the time period. Well this grouping all pre-1900 shows different, some look like they were shaped on purpose at one time, some not, a lot of difference in size of brim and crown as well as shape:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/done.jpg)
Myself I don't think the label "common" goes on hat shape. ;)
Del;
What do those two Sunbody hats run, price wise.
I am building a new "Originals" character. Col. A. A. Leach, is a bombastic newspaper editor. My intial plans call for him to be attired in a fustian frock coat and a wide brimmed staw hat. However I am have difficulty with documentaion for the hat, circa 1874.
Books
Quote from: Books OToole on August 18, 2009, 10:55:58 AM
Del;
What do those two Sunbody hats run, price wise.
I am building a new "Originals" character. Col. A. A. Leach, is a bombastic newspaper editor. My intial plans call for him to be attired in a fustian frock coat and a wide brimmed staw hat. However I am have difficulty with documentaion for the hat, circa 1874.
Books
We sell both for under $30, not sure what full retail is.
Almost all of those hats, if not all of those hats illustrated by Del started life as -
"an uncreased crown that is low - not over 5 inches, and has a brim of around 4 inches give or take an inch"
Stick with that rule and you won't go wrong in NCOWS. Plus you can get one "CHEAP" which was your original question.
You gotta watch those Yankee folks from Nebraska - less they be a nefarious influence on a fine Texas lad! ;) :D ;D
Quote from: kflach on August 18, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
I'm planning on hitting some Goodwill stores like you mentioned. I'm trying to take it a bit slow though, because there's still so much to get. I figure the most obvious first thing is the hat. If I get that I should still be able to wear my jeans, a long sleeve shirt and my (not cowboy) boots this weekend. I'll look like exactly what I am - a first-time visitor - but I'll at least have the basics roughly covered. Over the next few weeks I can do more shopping.
It's all part of my Evil Master Plan: shop smart and keep the expenses 'low profile' so that I can afford to buy more guns (without causing my wife to leave a mess in her britches). Then buy the fancy clothing. Then buy more guns. Muhahahahaha!
And most importantly, have fun!
-----
Regarding palm leaf vs. Felt, it seems that here in Texas the palm would be better because of the heat. However, the felt would be a bit more customizable as far as the look (can you reshape palm?) and would last longer.
To give you some visuals on "old west" styles, take a look here:
http://www.goldengatewesternwear.com/
They make great custom hats. They are not cheap by any means, but very well made.
James you forget, up yer way yer Yankees, out here we're Westerners and much different. ;) Fact were in the same longitude as Texas for the most part. ;)
Remeber almost is not all, the higher topped hats gained in popularity the later time crept toward 1900. The Stetson Big 4 that came out in the late 1880's was a 6 1/2 inch crown, and some of them in that photo stretch to 6 inches. You see some telescope crowns in the period and any hat bender will tell you it's hard to do that shape and make it fit on someones head with less than 6 inches.
Don't know who you deal with but around here we find out what someone wants to do and advise them on if it's suitable for what they want to do. ::) Some folks still have values and try to uphold them, ain't seen any of our elected officials arrested down here lately, must say somethng for our values out here. ;D
Del, I've sorta adopted Nebraska as my second home. As far as I am concerned it is not as close to Yankee country as Michigan is. Nebraska reminds me of the Texas Panhandle where I was born.
Tex. a lot of those guys that drove cattle up to the Platte in the 1870's liked what they saw and stayed. a lot of the cowboys out in The Sandhills are of some Texas stock. got a good customer that his Great-Great Grandad was Fred Fisher that came up with the Olives in the 70's.
Quote from: Pancho Peacemaker on August 18, 2009, 01:19:16 PM
To give you some visuals on "old west" styles, take a look here:
http://www.goldengatewesternwear.com/
They make great custom hats. They are not cheap by any means, but very well made.
If they are using the old school system or rating, the prices are dang good. But I'm guessing they don't, 6X beaver really don't mean much, if they called it a 6X Beaver blend and stayed with the old system it would be better. don't doubt they are good hats, but when I get a hat I want to know what it is really made out of.
My 10X Rand 100% beaver retailed for $398.98 in 2000. A standard open crown black 4X6 with a couple extras.
I've cleaned and reshaped a lot of hats, some of them custom hats, ain't had my hands on every brand, but still think Rand is the best:
http://www.randhats.com/index.cfm
If you want prices you have to call and let them know what you want, because every hat is made to the buyers specs. Even better if you can make it up there and have your head measured for size and shape and have the hat built around a block made for you. Nothing fits like a had made around your own custom block.
Should add this for those who have run out and got a tea kettle and are planning on shaping hats. Sooner or later you will need some hat stiffner, esp on cheaper hats. It can be bought in any decent western store in an airy-sol can, but is a bit pricey. Go to your local hardware store and buy a pint on natural while shellac and a pint of de-natured alchol. Thin it down so it sprays through a spary bottle easily. Never use hair spray or any of the other strange things I've heard of folks using.
Now don't get me involved in your local geographical and cultural disputes - my forebears apparently picked the wrong side in 1776, eventually packed up and high tailed it up the Erie canal. I'm Canadian.
Regarding hats: the original question referred to ubiquity and economy.
Still suggest sticking with the 5 inch uncreased crown, and the 4 inch brim (or there about) as it will satisfy all years during our time period with out question. Let time and use put a crease in the thing. The wool Amish hat will satisfy all desired elements until a firm decision concerning a persona and time period is made.
Quote from: James Hunt on August 18, 2009, 07:03:27 PM
Now don't get me involved in your local geographical and cultural disputes - my forebears apparently picked the wrong side in 1776, eventually packed up and high tailed it up the Erie canal. I'm Canadian.
Yer the one that started it as I recall. ;)
BTW the 6 inch crown also works for all the NCOWS periods also, any other information offered was from somebody who part of their job is working on hats, not everyone in the coutry has someone such as I that they can go to to have their hats worked on so I offer my information to help those who want to do their own work. And not every hat was allowed to take it's own shape, plenty can be spotted that were shaped by hand in all the years that NCOWS repersents, don't matter if that is not your preferance. Folks who know hats and wear them more than once or twice a month know hats are very personal. ;)
I'm guessing you don't wear them when going out on the town or visiting a sick friend in the hospital or really anytime you walk out the door. No problem, but a lot of folks do in the west, including western Canada.
Del said: "I'm guessing you don't wear them when going out on the town or visiting a sick friend in the hospital or really anytime you walk out the door. No problem, but a lot of folks do in the west, including western Canada."
Your right. I've also been seen regularly in white shirts and ties, known to embrace polysyllabic verbiage, once read a Greek classic and can recite at least one passage from the Book of Solomon. That is what makes NCOWS great. Diversity.
What does this have to do with cheap hats?
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x80/Jhunt67/JCH2.jpg)
Establishing my modern Cowboy hat bona fides with headwear that has been stomped on more than once by a cold backed critter.
Is that Ian Tyson singing in the background?
Quote from: Pancho Peacemaker on August 17, 2009, 09:24:44 PM
Have no fear, your answer is here:
Stetson/Resistol Hats Outlet Store
721 Marion Dr
Garland, TX 75042
972.494.0337
That place is a treasure trove of hat bargains. They often have a plethora of great hats REAL cheap. I've walked out of there with 4 felt hats under $100 total. Some days they'll have a buy one, get one 1/2 price style of sale.
Plan on spending at least 2 hours there. The hats are roughly sorted by size, so you have to do lots of searching and trying. They have an in house hat shaper that will give you a custom crease if you like. They usually have alot of 'old west' styles as these don't seem to sell well to the rodeo / urban cowboy crowd.
Regarding the "Gus" hat and "Gus" crease: if you get into the particulars of hat history, you'll find this style of hat is a rather modern design. It will not get you thrown out of a SASS or NCOWS shoot, but Ottawa Creek Bill may pull you aside for a good talkin-to.
Just a warning . . . I hauled my pard Mansfield Slim in there back about a year ago. I don't believe he owned a cowboy hat prior. Now he holds the #3 rank for the Smokeless Shootist category at the NCOWS Nationals. Like a wise fella once said: A real good cowboy hat can get you in some real good trouble.
Pancho
Pancho,
I was just going to suggest the very same thing. Made many a trip there, lived 3 miles from there, at S Plano Rd and Longleaf Dr. about a block or two north of S Plano and Forest Lane. I still have two hats from there that I bought about 25 years ago, still in great shape.
Like Del said the softer the feel the better the fur. I don't use a tea kettle to form my hats though, I do it the old fashioned way, just dunk it in a barrel of water or just wet it under the faucet, if it is good fur. Works great.
I think visual references always help. The recent NCOWS National was, in my humble opinion attended by many well-hatted shooters. (Also, please note that "1800's hat" does not necessarily mean a "cowboy hat")
A few photo ops:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gsonnenmd/NCOWS/NCOWSNationalJune2009-060.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gsonnenmd/NCOWS/NCOWSNationalJune2009-105.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gsonnenmd/NCOWS/NCOWSNationalJune2009-107.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gsonnenmd/NCOWS/NCOWSNationalJune2009-111.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gsonnenmd/NCOWS/NCOWSNationalJune2009-195.jpg)
The point is James which you seem to miss is I was giving information on hats that is useful information on hats, for the most part about all I seen you give is that James Hunt thinks everyone should wear a 4X5 and no dealer of CAS hats knows poop about them.
Now on to look at some"interesting" items, the pictures Pancho posted. ;)
As for diversity, as long as it fits your mould great, and it comes in a 4X6 hat. ::)
Good pictures Pancho, I see a lot of diversity there, as I said before hats are very personal and what works for one does not work for others, heck if we all wore the same type hat we'd be no better than the CMT crowd. ;)
Del: Once again, the original question referred to ubiquity and economy - not individuality. Think, "what has a broad range of use and is cheap"?
I recognize if not defer to your extensive experience past and present. Quite honestly I do value your information and often look forward to your posts, my only criticism of you (and it is not relevant to this topic) is your past tendency towards pontification without footnotes. I like to know how you know otherwise how do I know you know? I'm sure you have them, use them.
But regarding this topic, the humor of this confrontation has waned, rancor is raising its head, so the rhetorical repartee ends now.
You have the last word my friend.
What are you thoughts on this hat?
http://riverjunction.com/catalog/hats/scout.html
I was going to get wool, but you mention wool softening when wet. But the 10x would eat up most of my gift certificate.
Nice looking hat, the fur blend should last most folks for years, wools generally don't.
I've got a 4X Rodeo King thats 13 years old, been worn hard, been through rain, hail and snow, 100+ temps, still ain't in bad shape, was worn almost daily for 6-7 years. I am lucky to get a year out of a wool wearing it like that, even if I keep out of the rain.
Should take a picture of it, needs a good cleaning and reblocked, sweat band is a bit loose, needs a bit of resewing.
Quote from: DarbyFett on August 19, 2009, 12:47:45 AM
What are you thoughts on this hat?
http://riverjunction.com/catalog/hats/scout.html
I was going to get wool, but you mention wool softening when wet. But the 10x would eat up most of my gift certificate.
Darby,
Wool hats are more economic, but no great long term investements. They will soften and shrink if worn in the rain. Also, in my experience they tend to shrink slightly over time.
Beaver felt is much more durable and handles moisture much better.
If you buy the wool hat and you plan to stay in cowboy action shooting for some time, very likely you will be headed back to the store at some point to replace the wool with a felt hat.
Pancho
Texas Jacks in Fredricksburg has the same looking hat in Sand for 77.95. I ordered one and it should here this week. It should be along the lines of the Boss of the Plains. I don't plan on wearing it, other than NCOWS. so it should last a long time.
Quote from: Pancho Peacemaker on August 19, 2009, 06:58:53 AM
Darby,
Beaver felt is much more durable and handles moisture much better.
Any hat that is made of rabbit, hare or nutria fur is good, it will hold up in rain fairly well. Few hats under $300-400 contain any real amount of beaver fur.
Also on of the most common ways folks ruin hats is to leave them locked in a vehicle in the sun in the summer. The high heat softens the shellac and they take on weird shapes, depending on how they are tossed on the dash or seats. This is especially bad with wool felts since it takes a lot more stiffener to hold their shape.
I've heard of rabbits, hares, beavers, buffalos, lions & tigers & bears (oh my!) but what is a nutria?
A rat with serious aquatic skills...
They're most common in the South - you see them around canals and marshes and such.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
Thanks!
Quote from: kflach on August 19, 2009, 09:12:44 AM
I've heard of rabbits, hares, beavers, buffalos, lions & tigers & bears (oh my!) but what is a nutria?
It's related to the jackalope, but usually found further east (true jackalope ranges being in the far west and southwest).
(http://imaginux.com/rtu/jackalope.jpg)
Both Jackalopes and snipes are native to my part of the country (Texas). Hmmm. Maybe I should look for a snipe fur hat...
Kevin, You're a fast learner!
http://www.nutria.com/site.php
Nutria fur is better than rabbit or hare, but not as good as beaver for hats, also in the past mink and muskrat were used and still may be to some extent, if one could really find out what this "fur blend" hat you are buying is. Not easy always, to drag it out of the makers. Notice the good fur is from aquatic animals, as I explain to folks when I'm steering them away from a wool felt, "ever seen a wet sheep?
Quote from: kflach on August 19, 2009, 09:27:05 AM
Both Jackalopes and snipes are native to my part of the country (Texas). Hmmm. Maybe I should look for a snipe fur hat...
Allegedly, snipes are common in my neck 'o the woods, as well (Tennessee). However, I spent a long night on a hill during a boy scout camporee many years ago without so much as a glimpse of a snipe. Unfortunately, one of our hunting party disappeared that night and it's rumored that he's still in a holler somewhere, waiting for his snipe.
/threadjack
JD, That's a good possibility. Some folks say, "If there hadn't been a Tennessee, There wouldn't have been a Texas". Tenn. and UT both have orange and white as school colors! Co-Incidence?
Quote from: Texas Lawdog on August 19, 2009, 09:37:24 AM
JD, That's a good possibility. Some folks say, "If there hadn't been a Tennessee, There wouldn't have been a Texas". Tenn. and UT both have orange and white as school colors! Co-Incidence?
T for Texas, T for Tennessee!
During my visit to the Alamo, I was proud to see many of my native brothers remembered there.
In order to partially make up for derailing this fine thread, which contains a lot of good info, I thought I'd throw out another possibility for inexpensive lids:
http://www.blockaderunner.com/
Although their period wear is the War Between the States, they have some straws and felts that would pass muster as authentic western wear. Check out the hat page. I've been to their store, which is near Wartrace, where my club shoots, and the hats look fine for budget clothing.
I like the straws they have, real straw hats are hard to find, although palm leafs are period.
All the felts are wool only and most are in my opinion a bit high for a wool felt in price. The ones they have for in the $30-35 range are Bailey brand and very low quality.
But at least they have stuff that is different, and it will work as long as you wear them just once in a while and avoid any rain.
Quote from: J.D. Yellowhammer on August 19, 2009, 09:20:21 AM
It's related to the jackalope, but usually found further east (true jackalope ranges being in the far west and southwest).
(http://imaginux.com/rtu/jackalope.jpg)
JD, Jackalopes are what us no goods down south of the Medicine Line make hats out of we try to sell in Tejas. ::) ;)
Kflach,
Head down to the bayous on the coast and you'll meet a bunch of them. Was dove hunting with a boy from El Paso and he saw one swimming in the water. Poor boy thought it was a beaver! Until he saw the tail that is. Them things can get real big.
Cole
I love that "Dickens" hat!
This week I'm just looking for something simple and easy to get started in CAS so I'm not worrying about long term quality. I have some definite ideas for the future so all these tips and this information will be *very* useful as time progresses.
And perhaps most importantly, now I know that a Nutria is a water rat - which obviously refers to a type of politician.
I'm glad they're good for something.
<grin>
Good info is handy to have, hats are one item a lot of folks do not understand and it's easy to get burned, price does not always reflect quality.
Ultimate cheap hat:
I bought this about a decade ago at a Army/Navy surplus store for less than $5....
The bottom line is that fellow shooters understand that a new guy (or FNG in military speak) is going to be trying to absorb the $2K reduction in funds of just getting the weapons, leather gear and basic outfit. For most of us, that was not too long ago.
The moral of this story is get something together that is not an insult to the past and get shooting!!
The other thing is that, once you is involved with a group, you get to know whare the good deals are from other people who are shopping for the same thing, and in your neighborhood.
Also, things like spurs and all the paraphenalia tend to turn over, and one man's getting rid of an unwanted thing becomes another man's score!
So, best wishes and get shooting!!
If anyone wants to buy a hat that's really wrong, I recommend this one:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/hats/6e392ae84ba3561d735726a608242c05.jpg)
Forgot to add the hat pic ....
BTW, I put an old Bergwacht (German Mountain Rescue) pin on the hat years ago to keep from loosing it ... I have never had one commet about it ... so again, folks just want you out shooting with them.
Del, That looks like a Charlie One Horse special. I guess ya need to get a matching vest and some hot pink chaps to really set it off!
Hot pink chaps? My understanding is that they'd hang you if you wore stuff like that here in Texas...
<grin>
Quote from: kflach on August 19, 2009, 12:22:04 PM
Hot pink chaps? My understanding is that they'd hang you if you wore stuff like that here in Texas...
<grin>
That hat was made in Texas. ::)
Yep Tex, a Charlie One Horse. ;D
It takes a special person to really carry that look off! Maybe the Cowboy in the Village People?
I'm not "special" enough to pull that off - that's for sure!!
How about the straw or palm leaf sombrero??......Were they seen much in the southwest?
I have seen several photos but never took enough interest before to date the pictures.
They ranged in size from small to the large mariachi type sombrero. Are any of these hats
true to the period? Thanks in advance Pards.
Shotgun Steve
Quote from: Delmonico on August 18, 2009, 09:32:24 AM
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/hats/hg5bN_575.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/hats/hge_575.jpg)
These two palm leaf's from my earlier post are very good, sombreros might be seen to some extent along the border, but you don't see many pictures of Caucasian's wearing them much. My guess would be a lot of racial prejudice, whites not wanting to be mistaken for being Mexican. Almost all if not all pictures I've seen with the exception of Roy Bean seem to be taken in the revaloutionary era in Mexico. Just an opinion, but bears some thought.
That makes sense to me Del. Thanks for the input!!
Shotgun
Quote from: Delmonico on August 19, 2009, 10:16:10 AM
JD, Jackalopes are what us no goods down south of the Medicine Line make hats out of we try to sell in Tejas. ::) ;)
I'd pay damn good money for an authentic jackalope hat, 200X, and the horns mounted on the sides!
Quote from: J.D. Yellowhammer on August 19, 2009, 02:08:48 PM
I'd pay damn good money for an authentic jackalope hat, 200X, and the horns mounted on the sides!
I'll ask our buyer at work tonight the cost, I'd guess Charley One Horse has them in stock. ;D
I thought I'd seen some pictures of early Texas Rangers wearing sombrero-ish looking hats, but for the life of me I can't remember where I saw them and I certainly don't remember the dates. It seems to me that the article was talking about one specific company of Rangers that was stationed near the border.
Of course, as new as I am to this, the article could have been referring to Mexican double loop holsters instead of hats and I probably wouldn't have known any better.
<grin>
Their hats were probably open crowns and with the brims turned up. They might resemble sombreros.
you can go to river junction trade company and get one of the "Scout" hats in lower quality for under $100. I got one and wear it frequently for both SASS and NCOWS. Good looking hat with an open crown and wide brim to protect from the Texas sun.
Quote from: kflach on August 19, 2009, 02:44:25 PM
I thought I'd seen some pictures of early Texas Rangers wearing sombrero-ish looking hats, but for the life of me I can't remember where I saw them and I certainly don't remember the dates. It seems to me that the article was talking about one specific company of Rangers that was stationed near the border.
Of course, as new as I am to this, the article could have been referring to Mexican double loop holsters instead of hats and I probably wouldn't have known any better.
<grin>
You might be referring to Ranger pictures from George Baylor's site:
http://www.curtrich.com/gs.txrangcost2.html
He's done a great deal of research into 1880's Texas Ranger dress and gear. Great pictures on that site. And yes . . . some Rangers wore sombreros.
Pancho
Pancho, you've nailed it! I've found that site to be quite interesting.
Quote from: Pancho Peacemaker on August 19, 2009, 06:58:53 AM
Darby,
Wool hats are more economic, but no great long term investements. They will soften and shrink if worn in the rain. Also, in my experience they tend to shrink slightly over time.
Beaver felt is much more durable and handles moisture much better.
If you buy the wool hat and you plan to stay in cowboy action shooting for some time, very likely you will be headed back to the store at some point to replace the wool with a felt hat.
Pancho
Thank you! I have also been invited to participate in a group south of Dallas called "Marrow Bone Springs", that in conjunction with my desire to camp in the old style on my families property makes me think I should spend the extra money and go with something long term.
Looks like quite a few anglos wore sombreros..at least in that Ranger Company.
Neat photos for sure. Thanks for posting it Pancho.
Shotgun Steve
Quote from: Shotgun Steve on August 20, 2009, 08:45:37 AM
Looks like quite a few anglos wore sombreros..at least in that Ranger Company.
Neat photos for sure. Thanks for posting it Pancho.
Shotgun Steve
Yeah, thanks, I'd never seen most of them, perhaps they were more common on Anglos( or what ever the heck we want to be called today) than what I'd thought.
Quote from: Shotgun Steve on August 20, 2009, 08:45:37 AM
Looks like quite a few anglos wore sombreros..at least in that Ranger Company.
Neat photos for sure. Thanks for posting it Pancho.
Shotgun Steve
If you spend enough time out in the Texas summer sun, those dang sombreros start to make lots of sense. We have more than a few guys in our club that adopt a traditional looking straw or palm sombrero for the summer shooting season. They don't dress vaquero or charro, just normal period cowboy clothes and a sombrero. I use a Sunbody Charro hat myself. It's the coolest summer hat I own and not very expensive either.
Pancho
You guys with plenty of hair don't need to worry about your head getting blistered. Them Straw hats keep my bald head cool and shaded to keep from getting blistered.
I'd like to chime in with a few Photos ...These fellows arn't CowBOYS
We call them Cow Hunters or Crackers....
First up is the Fredrick Remington painting of "Bone" Mizell circa 1883 or abouts.
second are a grouping of 4 Cow hunters...note # 3 ( the so called Gus crease ) # 1 appears to wear straw and sombrero-ish. You will notice the bull whips in the hands of two of the Crackers, used in the scrub where a rope lasso was less than effective.
You will also notice 3 of the horses are the smaller Cracker breed. In the right background, if you look closely you'll see the log brasures and palmetto thatched hut of a typical cow camp. Circa 1887
lastly A Lumber Crew ..showing other popular head coverings ( note the Immigrent caps or Newsboy's or 8 piece caps there are about 2 Doz names for this style of cap ....This photo dates to 1880's as well , taken in Clare County ,Michigan
Thanks Major, a part of history few remember.
I found a hat I could afford and liked. I had them steam out the factory crease on the top and make it like an open crown. That actually made it look kind of used, which I think adds to it.
Delmonico has posted pictures of two Palm hats in a couple of places in this thread. The top one is a plantation hat (I think it's officially a Sunbody "Sam Houston"model). It has kind of a round rim on the top and the overall profile is flat on top. I like that look. Is there an easy way to make my open crown look like that without special equipment?
I like my hat "as is" but it's occurred to me that if it was easy, I'd seriously consider doing that to it.
I realize the odds are that it isn't easy...
Steam it, push the crown down and then push it up in the middle and form it with steam to clean it up. You won't be able to get that tight of one with out a block though. Still it will match many from the period. measure from the top of your ears to the top of your head to see how far you can go with out the crown hitting the top of your head.
It's wool. Will it hold up to repeated steaming (in other words if I try it and don't like the results am I going to totally mess it up and not be able to get it back where it is)?
What size ya wear pard?I have a 7 1/2 i could fix up fer ya.Here are a few ive' done.Gun"Click" Rick originals ;D Shaped by me ;)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/TVHATS001.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/tvhats004.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/tvhats006-1.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/KenCurtisFestushat006.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/TheBigCasinohat002.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/openrange002.jpg)
Stole this one from the Duke
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/liberty_valance06.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/TomDunsonhat004.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/TomDunsonhat002.jpg)
It will hold up fine, although wool hats need more stiffener and needs stiffened more often. Can be bought in an aresol can at a good western store, but can be mad much cheaper than that by using pure white natural shellac and denatured alcohol, about a 50-50 mix so it will spray in a spray bottle. never use hair spray or anything else despite what some folks will say. That suff leaves a sticky mess on top, the other goes into all the hat fibers.
GunClick Rick,
The crown on that darker brown hat on the right is exactly what I'm talking about. I wear a 7 3/8 or 7 5/8 hat, so although I appreciate your offer I'll have to pass until I get a little less big-headed. To be honest, that may be a while; have you ever heard of a modest Texan? <grin>
Your hats look great! Do you do that by hand? My wife has a professional steamer so I might actually might be able to pull it off.
Delmonico,
Thanks for that info. You are an incredible source of information and I've appreciated your sharing it with me. I'm new to this stuff so I don't know much. However, if you ever need to know anything about Mac computers, how to record, edit, process music in a recording studio, how to create videos and animations, how people process and communicate information, or anything else that I know a bit about, don't hesitate to PM me and I'm more than willing to share!
Rick,
I really like the grey 'Duke' hat ... and I wear a 7 1/2 ... so I will take a donation anytime ... *S*
I might be tempted to put a yellow calvary cord where the hat band is though....
I know it is hollywood, but I always wanted a grey cowboy hat with a yellow calvary cord .... LOL
Kflach.....You need to be real careful about the hat you buy for NCOWS use, if that is the direction you are going. Several of the hats shown would be frowned upon at an NCOWS match. Do your research for a period correct hat...before you buy.
Hey......do you know why the cowboys curl their hats upon the sides? so then can get four in the front seat of a pick up truck ;D ;D ;D
Bill
Something I've always wondered about, and maybe one'a ya'll can comment: It's hard to tell in contemporary photos, since people shoved their hats back on their heads in order to show their faces prevent shadows, but it looks to me like an awful lot of hats had pencil rolls on the brims. Anyone know for sure?
PS: Rick, what color/style is the 7 1/2? That's my size. ;)
OCB, my hat is NCOWS compliant as it currently is. My understanding is that a crown similar to a Plantation hat is PC as well. That's the only change I'm considering.
Mr. Yellowhammer, among other methods, a pencil roll or kettle curl was used (and is used today) to retain brim shape (flat) on unstiffened hats or for that matter, cheap felt hats. Thus many in the photographs you refer to had a brim curl of some type.
Also the ribbion bound edge also helps stiffen the brim.
I tuaght myself how to do it just using whatever the wife had in the kitchen,you mean to tell me ya cain't wear a Festus hat in NCOWS??I guess at the time it would have been Boss of the plains,plantation hats,beehive crowns,even slant caps maybe? Most of those hats are already gone to folks.