I'm building a rope bed and going to make a straw mattress cover out of ticking fabric. Would flannel sheets be period correct? I use a flour sack for a pillow case but I don't want to make an error out of pure and simple ignorance. Thanks for your help. Mild Will (whose old bones are too stiff to sleep rough) Cheatum.
Mild Will,
Howdy, first of all. Great question.
I'm going to guess you're putting this together for primitive camping.
To give a quick answer, yes, flannel has been in use since well before the 19th century.
The flour sack as pillowcase would be a nice rustic touch, but back in our time period they used cotton, silk, linen, etc. for bedclothes, so no reason not to use those fabrics, too. Just stay away from the 'Bed, Bath and Beyond' color print selections. ;) You can save those flour sacks as totes, or maybe dishtowels.
If for primitive camping, most folks do away with flannel bedsheets and use a plain canvas or similar ground/mattress cover, and then various blankets or quilts as top covers. Vary thickness and number to the season. Wool is a best bet. Lot of the sutlers to the Civil War reenactors carry wool blankets, or keep checking at the secondhand thrift shops, plus places like Sportsmen's Guide (?- the surplus discount place) sell a lot of military surplus wool blankets out of Switzerland or Italy. The last I looked they still carried the gray with black edge stripe. They're cheap and you could get several.
If you're going to be on the ground rather than your rope bed, add a waterproof groundcloth under your bedding. Some use treated canvas, or get one of the Civil War rubberized ponchos to lay down.
The few people I've known who experimented with rope beds had mixed results. They stretch out and sag somewhat, so may need readjustment occasionally. Usually in the middle of the night. Use plenty of padding, either by putting lots of straw in your mattress pad, or, quite frankly, no reason not to get a modern foam pad to put in your mattress cover. Who's going to see it once it's covered?
Here's an interesting link to period portable furniture, including beds, and a type of bedroll. You'll have to scroll through to get to the illustrations.
http://www.kancoll.org/books/marcy/index.html
"The bedding for each person should consist of two blankets, a comforter, and a pillow, and a gutta percha or painted canvas cloth to spread beneath the bed upon the ground, and to contain it when rolled up for transportation." - a quote from Chapter One.
Books O'Toole has done several articles in The Shootist on portable camp furniture based on Marcy's book and other sources. If I remember right, he has built himself a rope bed also. I believe he and his Missus tried it out and one of them complained of the 'waffle-pattern' embossed on their backside. ::) :D Hence the advice to use plenty of padding.
Ottawa Creek Bill and Delmonico have both offered How To's on creating a typical soogan, or cowboy bedroll. Perhaps they will repost their efforts.
RCJ
On my to do list is get better pictures of mine, but here is what I have:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Rock%20%20Creek%20Station/xxbedroll2.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Rock%20%20Creek%20Station/xxbedroll.jpg)
That as is, should be good (comfortable) to at least 0, not that I plan on testing it at that.
Del.......I want that top quilt!!
Bill
Quote from: Ottawa Creek Bill on March 02, 2009, 07:00:48 PM
Del.......I want that top quilt!!
Bill
Can't have it. ;D
This one is heading out your way in a little over a week, I need to get it to Yuma City Kid:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/quilts/quilt005.jpg)
But Jeff most likely won't let you have it either: ;)
I'm guessing this is the one you mean Bill:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/quilts/PICT0735-2.jpg)
This is the backside:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/quilts/PICT0738.jpg)
I didn't include one of them black dogs for Jeff, ;) that was taken in Sept of 2006, he's growed a bit. ;D
Said Del:
"... that was taken in Sept of 2006, he's growed a bit."
Me or the Dog, Rowdy?
;)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And yes, Bill - I'll be happy to show it off er, let you see it.
::) :D
;D
I suspect it'll be at the Nationals. With me. Hopefully in the Olde Weste "Village."
I suspect that linen or cotton would be most appropriate. It was very late in the 19th century that cotton flannel became common. Most flannel during the period was WOOL flannel. I mostly use a foam mattress with my bed, cause it is more comfy. Sometimes I use a bed tick that covers a sleeping bag with a feather tick on top. My 1840's bed has wood slats on the bottom and I just add some extra when I don't use the mattress. I use cotton sheets and vary the number o blankets depending on the temp. None or a very light one in the summer and 5 when it gets below freezing. I'm wimpy when it come to cold! Been that way since I contracted Lyme's disease.
A rope bed is very appropriate for a homestede; but they are a pain in the a$$ for camping.
The famous "army cot" was pattened in 1890. There are a couple field bed/cots illustrated in The Prairie Traveler, by Randolph Marcy (1859).
My bed roll consists of one wool blanket, one Mexican cotton blanket and a linen sheet, all rolled in a piece of canvas. I usually add a couple of sheep skins between my bed roll and a matress tick (stuffed with grass, straw or a thermarest). When laid out on my "Marcy" bed it makes for a good nights sleep. [And it is all documentable; except for the thermarest.]
Books
I added this last year, 5 1/2 feet by 7 feet, not really a quilt, more of a matteress:
One side, blue denium on heavy upholstry material:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/quilts/q4.jpg)
Other side, wools pieced on the same:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/quilts/q1.jpg)
In between there are 3 layers of old wool army blankets pieced together. Padding for comfort and from the cold. I need better pictures but my wife can't hold it up for me, it must weigh 40 pounds. ::)
Quote from: Books OToole on March 03, 2009, 10:00:02 AM
The famous "army cot" was pattened in 1890.
Books
This is what a lot of our Blue River Regulators use, myself included. I have found the older Army cots with wood frame at surplus outlets, although they are getting a bit scarce here abouts. As long as the wood and metal are in good shape the canvas part can be replaced, or used as a pattern to sew one out of plain Sunforger canvas.
I sometimes use a cot when it's cold and damp. I have two, they are metal with the metal mesh springs but those are from the period, better beds and cots had them. These were free and since I never travel ight to events anyway one or both are easy to boomer down somewhere on the load.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Filley/PICT0811.jpg)
I need better pictures, the metal legged picnic table looks out of place along with the case for my camera on the bed. ::)
Del, Those are some great looking quilts!
Here's a rope bed that a friend made for himself. He's a robust feller, yet he sleeps comfortably on it with his thick homemade mattress. He's been sleeping on this for several years, so the ropes have already stretched and he doesn't have any problems.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/niemoller/Rev%20War/GuilfordMilitiaMemorialDayweekend20.jpg)
For myself, I have a makeshift bedroll made of a treated tarp from TSC and wool blankets depending on need. I plan to get a more PC ground cloth at some time, but for now, this works.
Summer:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/niemoller/Rev%20War/RamsoursMill6-2008028-1.jpg)
Fall: (excuse the mess. I am a restless sleeper and had appointed myself the fire keeper for the night.)
The blue is a non-PC blanket that I needed because the temps dipped into the low 40s this evening
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/niemoller/Rev%20War/KingsMountain2008008.jpg)
For winter, I cheat and use a sleeping bag under my blankets. It doesn't get as cold here in NC as further north and out west, but my activities last month were just a bit too cool so I bought a new cold weather sleeping bag (-15). Of course, that means that the temps will not dip below 50 degrees for the rest of the season. ::) ;D
btw, Sportsman's Guide and the other outfitters no longer offer the surplus blankets as cheaply as they did two years ago. :(
Trinity.....
The orange/brown/tan color of your canvas is PC. Sail cloth ranged from light tan to dark brown when treated. I have one of the early dark brown (9'x9' almost Black) tarps made from real sail cloth that I use for a ground cloth and lean-to on occasion.
I'm not sure how early grommets are (Del may know), I have smooth rocks fastened along the edges and corners, tied on with 1/4 inch hemp rope.
I'll see if I can dig up a photo and post it here.
Bill
OCB, I remember your earlier post with pictures about your bedroll. I didn't save them and when I went back, they were already gone. :(
Yes, the grommets are what displease me. Unfortunately, they are larger than the hem, so in order to cut them off, I would have to leave the sides unhemmed (I'm not handy with a thread and needle).
I also do late 18th century and plan to buy the reddish-brown (or Spanish brown) cloth as sold by Crazy Crow. What are your thoughts on this color for the late 19th century?
http://www.crazycrow.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3633-100-098&Category_Code=
(http://www.crazycrow.com/Merchant2/graphics/gallery/3633-100-098-400x350.jpg)
Quote from: Trinity on March 05, 2009, 08:14:55 PM
OCB, I remember your earlier post with pictures about your bedroll. I didn't save them and when I went back, they were already gone. :(
Yes, the grommets are what displease me. Unfortunately, they are larger than the hem, so in order to cut them off, I would have to leave the sides unhemmed (I'm not handy with a thread and needle).
I also do late 18th century and plan to buy the reddish-brown (or Spanish brown) cloth as sold by Crazy Crow. What are your thoughts on this color for the late 19th century?
http://www.crazycrow.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3633-100-098&Category_Code=
(http://www.crazycrow.com/Merchant2/graphics/gallery/3633-100-098-400x350.jpg)
That is probably closer to the original color of sail cloth. After some use it should darken.
Bill
I made a marcy cot and my wife sewed up a couple of feather ticks. I bought a couple of wool
blankets and tanned my first buffalo into a robe. I was at a shoot a few years ago, sleeping
on the ground when it got well below freezing, froze my --- off, didn't sleep, and then didn't shoot
worth a dang the next day. I went to Books' seminar on camp furniture at the conv. a couple
of years ago, and now its like staying at the Holiday Inn
Quote from: bear tooth billy on March 05, 2009, 09:40:45 PM
I went to Books' seminar on camp furniture at the conv. a couple of years ago, and now its like staying at the Holiday Inn
;D ;D ;D ;D
Books
I don't have dates or sources, but those groments did exist, I've seen them in photo's. My guess is they came along in the pre-Civil War industral revaloution. Probally existed much longer than that but would have had to be hand made and expensive.
Quote from: Delmonico on March 06, 2009, 04:39:39 PM
I don't have dates or sources, but those groments did exist, I've seen them in photo's. My guess is they came along in the pre-Civil War industral revaloution. Probally existed much longer than that but would have had to be hand made and expensive.
Del....figured that you would know. I looked on the internet but didn't fine anything.
Bill
Sail makers made grommets with a coil of cord sewn down. That is how US Army tents were made at least into the IW period.
Quote from: Dr. Bob on March 06, 2009, 05:17:10 PM
Sail makers made grommets with a coil of cord sewn down. That is how US Army tents were made at least into the IW period.
Bob...that's good to know......I've made them like that but its easier to use the old lead ball or smooth rock and tie a cord round it.
Bill
Quote from: Ottawa Creek Bill on March 06, 2009, 04:52:51 PM
Del....figured that you would know. I looked on the internet but didn't fine anything.
Bill
Some of that stuff is danged hard to find any information on with out doing a patent search. Like that dang wingnut thing a couple years ago..
I know I've seen them in photo's on either chuck wagons or civilian tents. I need to keep an eye out for them.
Bill, I just did a little searching and had a little better luck.
http://www.wilcoxcrittenden.com/about/history/index.asp?bid=
I guess we can date the mass produced ones to 1847 at least.
OCB –
Here's something to support brass grommets in use in quantity at least by the time of the Civil War as they were used on issue groundcloths & ponchos in quantity: Two Federal-issue ground cloths and a poncho all with small brass grommets are pictured on page 215 Echoes of Glory: Arms & Equipment of the Union, Time-Life Books (1998).
This is the only other thing in my library at this point on grommets: an illustration from the Vajen & New Hardware catalog (1884) showing brass grommets for sale from that establishment, shown on page 185.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-4/1252580/grommet.jpg)
Delmonico - In reference to the wing nut issue awhile back, the earliest reference I found then was on page 119 A Treatise on Cariages: Comprehending Coaches, Chariots, Phaetons, Curricles, Whiskies, &c (1794). Not quite patent info but good stuff to know.
YMH&OS,
Brass
Thanks Jack, don't think there is any reason to worry about grommets in canvas by the time of the Civil War.
Did some looking back, the question on "Wingnuts" aka "Modern Fastners" starts at the bottom of this page. Don't think there is any reason to doubt them either:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,16535.10.html
Of course by the end of 1899, things had gotten pretty modern anyway. ;)
I wish there was a good source for when all them little items came into use, I know when I started seeing round nail heads in photos it shocked me at first, but yep, right there along with the cut nails.
There ya go!....Just ask the right people.
Monterrey.....are you and James going to make the national shoot this year?
Bill
Delmonico - I know what you mean about finding a holy grail of nit-noid historical details. I have yet to find such a one-stop shop reference on such things as thumb nuts, nails, grommets, etc, etc. Scouring my library becomes rather labor intensive as you know mon ami. If you ever find such a book please let me know and I'll do likewise.
OCB - Mr Hunt and I should be rolling into the National Friday afternoon. I'm looking forward to seeing you and the Originals crew again (and everyone else too...!). Missing last Summer's shooting season will make my attending this year's National only that much better...! Hoping to hit a Modoc shoot this Summer and your range as well if it can all work out.
YMH&OS,
Brass
Quote from: Delmonico on March 06, 2009, 06:06:26 PM
Bill, I just did a little searching and had a little better luck.
http://www.wilcoxcrittenden.com/about/history/index.asp?bid=
I guess we can date the mass produced ones to 1847 at least.
Thanks Del. Now I feel better about using it for our time frame. I had forgotten that my gum blanket also has grommets.
We need an NCOWS group out here in NC so that I can camp with my cowboy pards!
All,
This thread prompted me to take a look at a couple primary resources in my library regarding bedding in general and do a quick, impartial, and incomplete study. Though the below info may not all directly support the initial request of this thread, the findings are interesting and apropos at some level. Please note that though a catalog may not have listed a particular item doesn't mean that it did not exist at that time, and in some cases the references leave as many questions as answers. The following is to be considered a small sampling of primary documentation and should stand on its own merits - it doesn't represent the timeframe completely as the sampling size is truly small.
Of particular interest regarding sheeting and pillow cases: one gets the impression that sheet sizes were not standard and as such sold by the yard in various widths - implied that sheeting and pillow case material was purchased in an unfinished condition in bulk and 'sheets' were made by the user, or in at least one case the mail order company, to fit the beds & pillows of the customers. I have not found any 'standard sized' sheets or pillow cases being sold as such, only in bulk or custom made. Information from the catalog references below is condensed due to repetition/redundancy. Assumption on 'sheeting' is that it was intended for a bed and not other uses - pillow case fabric references were listed next to 'sheeting' references below, however.
Catalog #13 Spring & Summer Montgomery Ward 1875
Cotton sheetings: manufacturers listed – Gem of the Spindle, Fruit of the Loom, Wamsutta
Cotton sheetings widths in inches: 36
Misc cotton sheetings general: available in bleached white, granger brown, and brown
'Pillow case' fabric: cotton in 45" to 54" wide, cotton pillow case edging 1", 1.5" & 2" wide. No mention of manufacturers
Note: both wool and cotton flannels are also listed by the yard (without mention as 'sheeting' material). No mention of widths or manufacturers
Mattress ticking type (no colors or widths listed): straw bed, feather bed, unbleached drilling. No mention of manufacturers
Mattress related: Union Spring Bed, all sizes – length of slat required ('send a fit' from mail order company based on measurements sent in with order)
Blankets: wool - colored, tinted, white. No mention of manufacturers
'Clothing and Furnishings' catalog, Lord & Taylor 1881
Cotton sheetings: manufacturers listed - Utica, Wamsutta, Androscogggin
Cotton sheetings widths in yards: 1.25, 1.5, 2, 2.25, 2.5, 2.75
Misc cotton sheetings general: bleached and unbleached, also any sheet size made to order
Pillow case fabric: manufacturers listed - Utica, Wamsutta, Fruit of the Loom
Pillow case fabric: widths in inches: 40, 45, 50, 54. Various lengths in stock. Any pillow case size made to order
Note: canton flannels also listed in inches 27, 30, 33, 36 in white, drab, brown, blue and slate (without mention as 'sheeting' material). No mention of manufacturers
Mattress ticking: (no colors listed) in inches 27, 32, 36 60. No mention of manufacturers
Mattresses: hair, husk, straw, fibre, rattan - made to order only in writing for price state size, material wanted, and whether in one or two parts
Blankets: cotton, cotton-and-wool warp, wool filling, 'California', 'Exposition' – colors white, blue, red, gray, striped. Also have 'comfortables' in various sized 2.25 X 1.25 yards and 2.25 X 2 yards, made with Eider down and Arctic down and various chintz cover fabrics.
YMH&OS,
Brass
Brass,
Great stuff as expected! ;D ;D Thanks! Looks like linen was not usual by 1875.
Dr B – Unfortunately I didn't have time to include this reference in the initial post. Of interest here is Bloomingdale's which lists as 'sheeting' only linen, no cotton under that name. Again, what is shown here is a small percentage of what was out there back in the day and is getting a bit late in the era.
Spring & Summer 1886, Bloomingdale Brothers Price List
Linen sheetings: manufacturers listed – Wamsutta, Utica, Fruit(of the Loom?), Lonsdale
Linen sheetings widths in yards: 2, 2.25, 2.5
Misc sheetings general: colors - bleached and brown
Pillow case linen: widths in inches – 42, 45, 54 (no manufacturers listed)
Flannel: numerous listed including wool, cotton & wool, silk & wool, canton, domet in various colors (without mention as 'sheeting' material).
Mattress ticking: fancy striped, ordinary striped (no widths listed)
Mattresses: none listed
Blankets: no mention of material they're made from but they come in brown, gray, scarlet, white. Also sell 'comfortables'
Brass
MJB,
Thanks again!
Hi,
I also was looking around and found this ....
http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/beds/ropebed.html
TTFN
Quote from: WaddWatsonEllis on December 28, 2012, 06:20:03 AM
Hi,
I also was looking around and found this ....
http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/beds/ropebed.html
TTFN
Thanks WWE; I have been wondering how to make a bed that can be knocked down. The closest I got was siderails that fit onto pack boxes and wooden slats to hold up my sleeping robes (air mattress & schlaf-sack).
The good old wooden folding Army cot is period correct.
These are still to be found in surplus stores and at secondhand sales venues. May have to replace the canvas. They are lighter and faster to set up than a rope bed.
http://www.kancoll.org/books/marcy/mar5_14b.htm
The cot shown from the Marcy book above is an earlier style that was a precursor. Remember, these items were 1858 or earlier, as The Prairie Traveler was printed in 1859.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/RiverCityJohn/wright00wrig_0080.jpg)
RCJ
I made a rope bed during my rendezvousin' days. When you lay on the bed for extended periods of time the ropes stretch out some. To tighten the ropes up take some wooden wedges and place them between the rope and outside of the board. As needed you can tap the wedges down a bit to tighten up the ropes.
IMHO the cot RCJ mentioned is superior in comfort and convenience.
Quote from: Dutch Limbach on December 28, 2012, 11:00:58 PM
I made a rope bed during my rendezvousin' days. When you lay on the bed for extended periods of time the ropes stretch out some. To tighten the ropes up take some wooden wedges and place them between the rope and outside of the board. As needed you can tap the wedges down a bit to tighten up the ropes.
IMHO the cot RCJ mentioned is superior in comfort and convenience.
That's supposed to be the origins of the saying, "sleep tight."
Quote from: River City John on December 28, 2012, 08:58:16 PM
The good old wooden folding Army cot is period correct.
These are still to be found in surplus stores and at secondhand sales venues. May have to replace the canvas. They are lighter and faster to set up than a rope bed.
Do inspect all cots before setting them up and attempting to sleep on them, nocturnal accidents can wake up the whole camp.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/DOMM%202012/GAF2012101.jpg)
(I just know my camera will not be allowed at the Department of the Missouri Muster this year. ;D)
If you do find an older-issue wooden cot - just replace the canvas as a matter of course - and replace it with something on the 'thick' side to help spread the sleeper's weight more efficiently.
You may wish to treat the wood with something that'll 'feed' it, as well - it dries out and loses its resilience over time.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
Hi,
In th past, when I lived in the California Delta, I found that the only coating that would last a year in the California weather was a product called Deks Olje (pronounced deks olay).
For preparation, all that is normally required is a wash with teak soap (or any lightweight murianic acid wash).
It seems to be a product with oils (like a tung oil) that is put on every 20 minutes or so (in hot weather) in successive layers until the wood grain is filled ....
Then it is left to harden, forming a satin like finish ...
The one thing that I really liked about it is that it is self feathering ... that unlike varnish, it will flow into small cracks and cuts in the finish without having to strip the finish to bare wood .... something required to do a good job with varnish ...
Here is the website:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=168&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=deks_olje_suppliers
I was stationed at Fort Lee in 1986. I went to Williamsburg a lot. One of the docents let me get "behind the ropes" to measure and take pictures of an original in one of the houses. When I got back to Colorado, I built one from pine and turned the legs on a lathe. We used it at rondesvous for several years. My middle son still uses it in South Datkota. My rope bed was the only thing his pregnant wife could get comfortable enough to sleep. Somethimes the old way is better.
Joe
Tascosa Joe,
Boy, if we could get a copy of plans, drawings or what have you it would certainly help!
TTFN,
Skip:
The plans were one wife and 5 PCS ago. I will try to get pictures and measurements and post.
T-Joe
Tascosa Joe,
I kinda figured... Hope "All You Exes don't Live in Texas' ... *S*
Tascosa Jle,
Mine lives in San Antonio ... another good reason to be from the Left Coast ... *S*
Here is a PDF with plans for a rope bed;
http://www.crookedtreefarm.com/history/furniture/ropebed.pdf (http://www.crookedtreefarm.com/history/furniture/ropebed.pdf)