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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => SCORRS => Topic started by: John William McCandles on December 11, 2008, 07:20:14 PM

Title: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 11, 2008, 07:20:14 PM
I know this has been ask but I couldn't answer with a search.
What model was the small pistol Clint (Preacher) used that he carried tucked into his belt?

Regards
JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Major 2 on December 12, 2008, 03:29:51 AM
63 pocket Remington

http://stores.brigadesutler.com/Detail.bok?no=351
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 07:33:33 AM
Quote from: Major 2 on December 12, 2008, 03:29:51 AM
63 pocket Remington

http://stores.brigadesutler.com/Detail.bok?no=351
/quote]

Don't believe it was a '63 since it has a trigger guard.
I looked a bit and maybe it's a New Model Police or Navy??

JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Rusty Spurr on December 12, 2008, 08:23:17 AM
New Model Police.
5 shot converted to 38 cal cartridge.
Looks like  3 3/4 " Barrel.
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 08:29:13 AM
Quote from: Rusty Spurr on December 12, 2008, 08:23:17 AM
New Model Police.
5 shot converted to 38 cal cartridge.
Looks like  3 3/4 " Barrel.

That's what I was thinking.
It sure would benice if someone made a copy now a days along with a drop in cylinder.
Most of the original conversions I have found are .38 rim fire.

JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Rusty Spurr on December 12, 2008, 09:53:41 AM
Yeah, It is too bad.
This is the closest repro I could come up with.
31 pocket converted to 32 CF and homemade trigger guard.

(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp88/paflintlock/DSCF0001.jpg)
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: Rusty Spurr on December 12, 2008, 09:53:41 AM
Yeah, It is too bad.
This is the closest repro I could come up with.
31 pocket converted to 32 CF and homemade trigger guard.

(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp88/paflintlock/DSCF0001.jpg)

Rusty;
That's nice work.
I have a steel fraimed Pietta '63 Pocket maybe I'll try making a trigger guard and do a drop in conversion after all.
The only problem is the barrel is loose any ideas on a fix?
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Rusty Spurr on December 12, 2008, 11:34:13 AM
What do you mean its loose?
If you turn the barrel into the frame, will it tighten?
Or is the tapped hole in the frame too big?
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 11:49:17 AM
Quote from: Rusty Spurr on December 12, 2008, 11:34:13 AM
What do you mean its loose?
If you turn the barrel into the frame, will it tighten?
Or is the tapped hole in the frame too big?

It will tighten if turned into the frame far enough. May have to take some off the threaded end so it will get tight, then figure what to do about the front sight.
I got it used.

JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Hoof Hearted on December 12, 2008, 05:29:22 PM
Quote from: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 11:49:17 AM
It will tighten if turned into the frame far enough. May have to take some off the threaded end so it will get tight, then figure what to do about the front sight.
I got it used.

JW

Howdy!

Just remove the barrel, set the shoulder back a bit by flat filing (trial and error here by installing until you get the sight to line up at the top), then file the breech end of the barrel (SQUARE) (trial and error until the cylinder just barely fits). Then with feeler gauges set the gap to about 6 thousandths for Black Powder or 2 to 4 for smokeless. You can use your feeler gauge here to see if the breech end of the barrel is square to the cylinder face.

If you take a small mill file over to the belt sander you can sand the edge smooth so it doesn't cut into the round part of the barrel when you file the shoulder to set it back.

You may also need to slightly modify the catch on the rammer in order to get it to latch.

Go slow and be careful, lots of trial and fit ;)
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on December 12, 2008, 05:29:22 PM
Howdy!

Just remove the barrel, set the shoulder back a bit by flat filing (trial and error here by installing until you get the sight to line up at the top), then file the breech end of the barrel (SQUARE) (trial and error until the cylinder just barely fits). Then with feeler gauges set the gap to about 6 thousandths for Black Powder or 2 to 4 for smokeless. You can use your feeler gauge here to see if the breech end of the barrel is square to the cylinder face.

If you take a small mill file over to the belt sander you can sand the edge smooth so it doesn't cut into the round part of the barrel when you file the shoulder to set it back.

You may also need to slightly modify the catch on the rammer in order to get it to latch.

Go slow and be careful, lots of trial and fit ;)

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.

JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Pettifogger on December 12, 2008, 07:00:10 PM
Clean the threads, apply red loctite, problem solved.
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 07:01:00 PM
Rusty;
What type of brass did you mill the trigger guard out of?
Als did you make the cylinder your self or is it a drop in?

Thanks.
JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 07:02:12 PM
Quote from: Pettifogger on December 12, 2008, 07:00:10 PM
Clean the threads, apply red loctite, problem solved.

Thought about that also and may try that first.

JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Hoof Hearted on December 12, 2008, 07:31:22 PM
Quote from: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 07:02:12 PM
Thought about that also and may try that first.

JW

If, when tight it is just a little past TDC, this would work (as long as you don't get the pistol real hot shooting BP). I have done this before with mixed results. Lock tight releases with heat.

Cheap as the gun is you might clean well with brake cleaner and JB weld. Clean up while soft with Carb Cleaner. Then oil well when set..........
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Major 2 on December 13, 2008, 06:09:06 AM
Quote from: John William McCandles on December 12, 2008, 08:29:13 AM
That's what I was thinking.
It sure would benice if someone made a copy now a days along with a drop in cylinder.
Most of the original conversions I have found are .38 rim fire.

JW

not to be argumentitive  :) but speaking to Scott Nifong on location in DC (second unit) about 10 years ago
we were briefly discusing pre production of G&G.
I was looking for Star revolvers , in passing he mentions the pocket pistol as a Remington 63 and used 32 blanks.

If my memory, serves me...it usually does  :-\ however, there is a very good photo in Dennis Adlers book
Matallic Carartridge Conversions, with the gun in Eastwood belt, viewing that photo , I also say it's a 3 1/2"  Police model.



Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 13, 2008, 07:07:38 AM
Quote from: Major 2 on December 13, 2008, 06:09:06 AM
not to be argumentitive  :) but speaking to Scott Nifong on location in DC (second unit) about 10 years ago
we were briefly discusing pre production of G&G.
I was looking for Star revolvers , in passing he mentions the pocket pistol as a Remington 63 and used 32 blanks.

If my memory, serves me...it usually does  :-\ however, there is a very good photo in Dennis Adlers book
Matallic Carartridge Conversions, with the gun in Eastwood belt, viewing that photo , I also say it's a 3 1/2"  Police model.

Major 2
There are some pictures of Clints rig on the SCORRS site.
If it was a '63 pocket they put a trigger guard on it much like the one Rusty Spurrs built and has posted pictures here on this thread.

JW





Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Major 2 on December 13, 2008, 09:06:53 AM
I agree.... Millington might have done it or even Howell... I've only seen PR once or twice so I was going by what I remember and what Scott said.
Worked with Scott briefly on Deep Impact...different dept.s , though and left to prep End of Innocence & later G&G.

Both the the Remington police and the 63 pocket model were first offered in 1863, as far as I know only the pocket model
is or was ever offered as a replica
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 13, 2008, 09:43:00 AM
I've watched PR a number of times one of my favorite Clint westerns.
It would be nice if Uberti would make a Police and real Navy model.
I have a steel framed pocket model I'm going to do a trigger guard and drop in cylinder on as soon as it warms up enough to work in my shop.

Regards
JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Bull Schmitt on December 13, 2008, 10:39:27 AM
If the barrel rotates a little past TDC you could try a thin washer as a shim between the frame and the barrel. The washer could be cut from some shim stock.
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Flint on December 13, 2008, 01:51:41 PM
Where does the barrel top come to when hand tightened?  It should come up with the front sight at 10:30 or 11:00 o'clock, viewed from the muzzle, to provide the proper torque to stay tight.  It's a steel frame, so can take the torque OK.  I have in hand a brass framed Rem Pocket with the barrel removed, it is hand tight with the front sight at 10:30 o'clock, so the steel frame should be fine at that.

As Hoof Hearted said, you can move the barrel's shoulder back to take up another turn in the barrel, it will be one thread pitch shorter.

I had a Navy Arms 44 that shot loose the first time I used it, apparently left the factory without the correct torque, hand tight put the front sight at 12:00.  I degreased the threads and locktited the barrel in, and it's fine after several years of shooting, both as cap & ball and conversion.

As Bull Schmidt mentioned, I have seen gunsmiths make a thin shimwasher to put between the barrel shoulder and the frame to bring the torque up to spec.
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 13, 2008, 06:04:22 PM
Quote from: Flint on December 13, 2008, 01:51:41 PM
Where does the barrel top come to when hand tightened?  It should come up with the front sight at 10:30 or 11:00 o'clock, viewed from the muzzle, to provide the proper torque to stay tight.  It's a steel frame, so can take the torque OK.  I have in hand a brass framed Rem Pocket with the barrel removed, it is hand tight with the front sight at 10:30 o'clock, so the steel frame should be fine at that.

As Hoof Hearted said, you can move the barrel's shoulder back to take up another turn in the barrel, it will be one thread pitch shorter.

I had a Navy Arms 44 that shot loose the first time I used it, apparently left the factory without the correct torque, hand tight put the front sight at 12:00.  I degreased the threads and locktited the barrel in, and it's fine after several years of shooting, both as cap & ball and conversion.

As Bull Schmidt mentioned, I have seen gunsmiths make a thin shimwasher to put between the barrel shoulder and the frame to bring the torque up to spec.

I'm coming up at between 12:00 and 1:00 when hand tight.
The shim may work. if it was at 12:00 I believe the loctite would do. If the shim doesn't get it I'll file the face to get one more turn out of it then file the forcing cone for the cylinder to barrel spacing.
Thanks.
JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 07:06:14 PM
Hey JW, Might work you up a deal for this one I have, you may be able to make two into one....you have a neat holster I'd like to have for lisa's cut down Remmie...
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 13, 2008, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 07:06:14 PM
Hey JW, Might work you up a deal for this one I have, you may be able to make two into one....you have a neat holster I'd like to have for lisa's cut down Remmie...

CH
How yea doin' Pard?
Which holster might that be? We need to get together before the next meeting. Jaunuary is a long way off.

Regards
JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 07:33:34 PM
That soft tooled one for a 4 3/4 " barrel pistol....
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 13, 2008, 07:44:26 PM
Quote from: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 07:33:34 PM
That soft tooled one for a 4 3/4 " barrel pistol....

Oh, Ok we can most likely work somthing out, or she can just use it. That's the first rig I bought for CAS. Used it alot when I rode with the Alpine Outlaws out in California.
Are you planning on converting that one for Lisa?

Regards
JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 08:06:52 PM
When I get some money...I guess when Nancy Palosi gives me my part of the 700 Trillion dollars  ;D

It will do for now without a conversion, just seeing as she's an announcer, but I wanted to get her gressed up so she doesn't feel left out of the pictures and stuff. If she can borrow it, that would be fine.  I give you the gun anyway, I've got enough around here without have a broken one in the way. It's just in my way. It's a Pietta, so you'll and looks good externally, just put the innards from yours into it and it should work fine.
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 08:10:06 PM
Man, there I go with the brain disconnect again, can't even understand my own posts... ::)  life ends at 50... :'(
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 13, 2008, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Coyote Hunter on December 13, 2008, 08:10:06 PM
Man, there I go with the brain disconnect again, can't even understand my own posts... ::)  life ends at 50... :'(

Well I hope not I only have 6 or 7 months to go and I'll be there too.
I sent you an e-mail.

JW
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: Gaucho Gringo on December 17, 2008, 08:42:11 PM

In Dennis Adlers book "Metallic Cartridge Conversions" there is a picture of an 1863 Remington New Pocket Revolvers with a regular style trigger guard. It is on page 67.
Title: Re: Pale Rider?
Post by: John William McCandles on December 18, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
Well I got the '63 squared away.
Don't know if anyone would be interested but I've decided to stick with my Cimarron '60 R&M's and Colt/Millington '49 conversion and need to sell this Remington pocket and the Pietta 5 1/2" NMA which is new and never fired. I have the boxes for both.
If anyone is interested e-mail and I'll give you my price.

Regards
JW