Trapdoor civilian availability

[LonesomePigeon]

This is just something I am curious about. When were the 1873 Trapdoor models in .45-70 legally available to common citizens?

[Trailrider]

Not sure about regulations, but it was Army policy to give guns, including Trapdoors, to citizens (civilians) who were in danger from hostiles or outlaws and were isolated. As far as sale to the general public, IIRC, the U of Minnesota had Trapdoors on sale for $5.00 apiece way into the 1950's!

[St. George]

When the Trapdoor was a first-line weapon - no.

Teamsters/civilians got surplus ACW weaponry and ammunition 'if' they were on-hand at the Fort - if not, they supplied their own from available civilian stock - the military wasn't in the business of supplying arms, so any weapons in civilian hands was on a case-by-case basis.

Back then, any Government-owned weapon found in civilian hands was suspect and was prosecutable without proof of legitimate ownership.

Yeah, I know about deserters stealing and selling their weapons, but they were still stolen in the eyes of Uncle Sam and could be conficated.

Once the Krag replaced the Trapdoor, Ordnance would recall them and inventory them, then supply the Militia and National Guard.

After that, they would enter into disposal.

Scouts Out!

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[Trailrider]

In some cases, the army issued arms to their civilian employees...scouts, teamsters and packers.  I have done a lot of research on the subject, and, for example, in 1874, when Co. G, 3rd Cav, moved from Ft. D.A. Russell (now F.E. Warren AFB), to Sidney Barracks, NE, they had been issued M1873 Trapdoor carbines. But they also brought 5 Sharps carbines, cal. .50-70 with them. Why? Well, they had over 50,000 rounds of .50-70 ammo, and were only allowed 3 rds/man/month of .45-55 or .45-70 for target practice and/or foraging. In one instance, a .45-70 carbine was issued to a teamster who lost it and was charged around $15.

In another instance, there exists a Sharps carbine with the name of a young civilian teamster who was employed at Sidney carved in the stock. Had it still been government property, he wouldn't have done that, nor would he have autographed a stolen weapon. But if he had "lost" it with full knowledge of the post QM, and paid the value from his wages, they might have told him to put his name on the carbine to distinguish it from the other four still at the post! Unfortunately, all records of Arms and Ammunition in the Hands of the Troops stopped in June 1876, and the military didn't keep records of serial numbers. The young man wrote that he "lived with the enlisted men and carried a carbine on several expeditions against the hostile Sioux", when he applied for a pension in 1935. (Didn't get it...he was a civilian employee, not a soldier!) He probably was with the Big Horn & Yellowstone Expedition of 1876 under BG George Crook, but probably stayed with the wagon train where Sheridan, WY, now stands. But there were packers and teamsters with Crook at the Rosebud battle on 17 June 1876.  We'll never know...

[Arizona Trooper]

When the serial numbers below 50K were called in they were broken down and the 'unservicable' parts sold off. Hartley & Graham, Whitney and others wasted no time in putting them back together and selling 'genuine US service rifles' on the open market. This was 1879-80-ish and the Ordnance Dept. was hopping mad. This is probably the source of at least some of the mixed parts mongrel early model Trapdoors.

[Drydock]

And one must remember the earlier .50-70 rifles,  The 1866s in particular were well into the market by the mid 1870s in one form or another.  I suspect if one saw a Trapdoor in civilian hands prior to 1880, it was probably an 1866.