.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[dusty texian]

Glad to hear that the APP may work out to be a usable powder in the .32. Hope it turn's out good. Like Goex in the .32 ,was not happy with the first test result's in the .32 ,but that is not the end of it. Will try another Goex load until I find a good one. Had a chance to try the #2400 powder today.The load was 5gr. #2400/CCI500 primer/#299153 bullet lubed with my home brew,four shot group near center is the #2400 , test group.Best group of the day from the 1892 Marlin @ 50yd.was this load /sand bag's and tang sight. Look out Squirrel's!This is the best shooting load I have tried to date in the .32 Marlin.Did not crono this load ,but it is moving along plenty fast.No sign of pressure and fed and ejected great. Nothing but fun,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

Wow - that 2400 load is right on he money!   I don't think my rifle is as strong as yours, I'll have to load a few rounds, but I'll probably start with 4.5 gr in my little rifle.     

[dusty texian]

ndnchf" the #2400 is sure worth a try. Burned clean and was very accurate. I thought I would try 5.5 next ,but after shooting the 5gr. load , and seeing how well it shoot's.Think the 5gr. load will work just fine. I dont need more power than this load gives in the little .32. Shot my 76 in 45/75 wcf today after the .32 . Was fun to shoot the big bore ,but sure buck's more than the .32 ,,,,,,Dusty

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[w44wcf]

Dusty,
I would think the 299154 is a very rare mold since it was dropped from the Ideal Catalogs by 1908. So the likelihood of finding one would be pretty slim.  One could probably modify the Lee 100 gr RN to get a close replication.  
Hope to have the new 31-090S in the near future.

Glad to see that 2400 worked well for you.

Adirondacker,
Check page 39 Ideal #5  1/2 way down the page.

1895 - UMC shows the .32 Long Rifle Cartridge

1897 - Earliest Marlin Catalog I have, says this about the .32 Long Rifle -
          "This cartridge is made specially for our rifle and not only gives good results, but is clean and convenient to use."

1898- The Ideal Catalog No 10 first illustrates the new 299155 bullet and references the 1892 Marlin.

1935 - 299152, 299153, 299155 now shown as special order and are no longer standard molds.

ndnchf,
Thank you for the update on APP.

w44wcf

[Adirondacker]

Adirondacker,
Check page 39 Ideal #5  1/2 way down the page.

1895 - UMC shows the .32 Long Rifle Cartridge

1897 - Earliest Marlin Catalog I have, says this about the .32 Long Rifle -
          "This cartridge is made specially for our rifle and not only gives good results, but is clean and convenient to use."

1898- The Ideal Catalog No 10 first illustrates the new 299155 bullet and references the 1892 Marlin.

w44wcf

I get confused when I don't see pictures--reading is hard work.  80g bullet for the .32 Short is called that alone, but 90g bullet for the Long is called "Long Colt."  There just ain't NO rhyme or reason to the nomenclature.  Interesting also that at this point, Ideal didn't provide specific mould numbers, telling customers to specify cartridge for which the mould was needed.

So Marlin originated the Long Rifle?  "Clean and convenient to use" must refer to an inside-lubed bullet.

[Chev. William]

Chev. William,
Welcome to the forum.  Your projects sound really interesting.

w44wcf

It is progressing with "all due deliberation" based upon their being a 'back burner' work project for my Gunsmith to save me some costs.
He did tell me this week that they are broken down to individual parts and in "Cookie Trays" on his workbench now and he had me bring in the Stevens barrels I have, for inspection and fitting to the actions.  I have two in .25 Stevens RF and one in .32 Long RF with all three being 21.75 inches long and having 'spigot' ends for the Favorite actions.  I also have a 24 inch long heavier pattern 'half octagon' barrel in .22 Long rifle RF that has a 'spigot' that is two different diameters and has the middle third threaded.
In the interim, I have trimmed my stock full length sized and rim machined parent cases down to three initial lengths:
1.055" nominal for use as ".250ALR" test specimens.
1.125" nominal for use as ".250ALS" (.25 Stevens CF) test specimens.
1.250" nominal for use as ".250ALRM" test specimens.
There are still ten left at the parent ".250ALRx Basis length(s) for later trimming as needed.
These, along with the 17 remaining .32 Long Colts, which are still roughly .93" length as received from Jack Harrison, are now all primed with some CCI #450 Small Rifle Magnum primers I had on hand, intended for worst case load development as they are supposed to be about the most powerful primers out there so any load developed will be of lower pressure if any other primer is used.  I am thinking that loads that do NOT have the supersonic bullet "Crack" sound on leaving the muzzle will be well within the pressure limits of these actions.  After taht, if I want ot try any heavier loadings, I will need to find a Chronograph set up to use and Get permission from a Public commercial range to set it up for testing.  I will cross that 'bridge' at a later time.

The ,250 series use the rim dimensions of the .25ACP cartridge and i believe that the commercial loadings of it with 50gr FMJ bullets will give around 1000fps to 1100fps out of a 21.75" barrel so will be a 'proof of concept' test cartridge in my CF converted .25 Stevens Favorite rifle.  Obviously, the relatively long bullet travel from leaving the case until encountering the rifling will probably NOT improve the overall accuracy of the rifle, but it may surprise me.

The best bore of the two .25 Stevens RF barrels is intended to remain 'stock', with the worst bore one being cut to chamber the ".250ALRM" case length.

I have been doing numerous 'what if' trials with the QuickLOAD (QL) software calculating estimates of pressures and Muzzle Velocity and exit pressure for various powders and it seems the longer cases lend themselves well to slower powders that develop the same peak pressure but sustain a higher average pressure until bullet exit.  These are using a Pmax of 17,400psi for the calculations.
I also found that QL lists the .25ACP cartridge with too small a powder volume to match Hodgdon's load data.  by increasing the gross case volume from the 4.7gr used to 5.05gr. the calculated values match Hodgdon's loading book data for given powders.

As to the .32 Long Colt shell holder, I was sold an RCBS #10 shell holder and it fits the rim quite closely, leaving less than a coat of 'nail polish' space between rim and holder.  I found this out after sealing some of the primers in with some of my late wife's nail polish. Oh well, she also left some nail polish remover so all is not lost.  This is some of the last 'daily reminders' of her in the house.  her clothing was donated long ago to charities and her jewelery distributed in accordance with her wishes to the best of my abilities.

Yesterday, driving in the 102 degree heat here, my truck got warm, indicating above the middle of the temperature gauge, toward the three quarters area, so I will be checking the coolant levels and oil levels After it cools off this evening, another hot day here today.  I am inside with the air conditioning going with my dogs at my feet, panting slightly while they are relaxed.  Even with the air conditioner going it gets over 80 inside when it is over 100 outside.

[Adirondacker]

 I also have a 24 inch long heavier pattern 'half octagon' barrel in .22 Long rifle RF that has a 'spigot' that is two different diameters and has the middle third threaded.

As you may already know, this barrel fits either the 44 or 44-1/2 action; if the bore is good, it has significant value.

I know ALL about working outdoors in 100 d., 80% humidity, weather; which is why, when I could, I got far away from it.

[ndnchf]

I loaded up some .32 SC and LC with Hercules 2400 this morning. It has been a long time since I've used this powder, at least 20 or 25 years.  My can of powder is the old cylinderical cardboard container and the price tag says $10.55.  I probably bought it in the early 1980s.  But it has been stored cool and dry all these years and I have no reason to think it is not still good.

I loaded ten rounds of .32 LC with 4.5 gr, CCI 500 primer and chemically crimped. I had 3 cases left so I loaded 5.0 gr in these.  If the lighter loads shoot well and I'm comfortable with the feel of the rifle, I'll shoot the 5.0 grainers. 

I loaded ten rounds of .32 SC with 4.0 gr, CCI 500 primers.  This fills the case right to the base of the bullet.  The cases are a little thicker at the case mouth (.012" vs. .008" of the LC cases), so I seat the bulelts with a .32 S&W short seating die which works perfectly.  I'll stop at the range one day after work this week and try them out.  What do you guys think of CCI 550 magnum SP primers for this application?  I'm almost out of the CCI 500s, but have over 1000 of the 550s.

[Chev. William]

I loaded up some .32 SC and LC with Hercules 2400 this morning. It has been a long time since I've used this powder, at least 20 or 25 years.  My can of powder is the old cylinderical cardboard container and the price tag says $10.55.  I probably bought it in the early 1980s.  But it has been stored cool and dry all these years and I have no reason to think it is not still good.

I loaded ten rounds of .32 LC with 4.5 gr, CCI 500 primer and chemically crimped. I had 3 cases left so I loaded 5.0 gr in these.  If the lighter loads shoot well and I'm comfortable with the feel of the rifle, I'll shoot the 5.0 grainers.  

I loaded ten rounds of .32 SC with 4.0 gr, CCI 500 primers.  This fills the case right to the base of the bullet.  The cases are a little thicker at the case mouth (.012" vs. .008" of the LC cases), so I seat the bulelts with a .32 S&W short seating die which works perfectly.  I'll stop at the range one day after work this week and try them out.  What do you guys think of CCI 550 magnum SP primers for this application?  I'm almost out of the CCI 500s, but have over 1000 of the 550s.

Back off the charge weight and they should be usable, I saw a report a while back that indicated about a 3.600psi rise in Peak Pressure when using the same charge and switching from CCI Regular to Magnum primers.

[Chev. William]

As you may already know, this barrel fits either the 44 or 44-1/2 action; if the bore is good, it has significant value.

I know ALL about working outdoors in 100 d., 80% humidity, weather; which is why, when I could, I got far away from it.

I only knew it was not a Barrel for a 1896 series Favorite, I did not know it is for a Later model.  When you say "significant value", what do you mean, range speaking?  Is more valuable as is; or is it more valuable as a 'core' to reline to something else; or re-cut to fit something else?

i am not contemplating any immediate use for it, I thought it might be just a sligly later Favorite style that could be fitted to my action as a possible 22 Lr use.  It was Available so I bought it on a 'whim'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Adirondacker]

Its "significance" depends of course on its condition, inside & out, & whether it fits a 44 or a 44-1/2, the latter bringing somewhat more.  Should think a mint 44-1/2 would bring at least $400, so subtract from that according to its condition.

[dusty texian]

Did a little shooting with the 92 Marlin in .32 Short Colt, bullet was a 299153- 90 GR. from Jack. The powder charge was 2gr. Trail Boss # 500 primer. A very mild load.The SC load's and feed's very slick in my 1892 Marlin. This is what the 90 gr. bullet's look like after being fired @45 yd. into the skillet clanger , hung from a hitching post behind my gallery at the Lucky 11.,,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

I would have thought by 45 yards the little .32 SC would be running out of giddyup.  Apparently not!  I've got some .32 SC and LC loaded up with 2400.  Next time I go to the range I'm going to try them at 50 yards.  Maybe I'll surprise myself

[dusty texian]

I was a little suprised myself at the expansion of the SC. with 2 gr. TB charge. Forgot to say the small one is a .22 LR. found in the sand under the skillet ,along with the .32  slug's.  The five spot's below the dot,are the .32 mark's .Can cast the left-overs again,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

As they say, "the proof's in the puddin".  Sure is nice to be able to recycle the lead too. 

I've been thinking about sizing down Jack's bullets to better fit my bore which is about .308".  I see Midway sells the Lee push through bullet sizer in .309". 
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/501819/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-309-diameter#ReviewHeader

I've never used a Lee sizer, so have no experience with these.  Been using a Lyman lubrisizer for years.  Do you fellas have any experience with these?  I also see they make one in .314". 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/480814/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-314-diameter
I wonder if it could be used to neck size the .32 SC/LC brass?   Maybe hone it out a thou or two?

[w44wcf]

Dusty,
Neat! Thank you for the report. 


ndnchf,
Yes, I have. The Lee push through dies work pretty slick for sizing down bullets.    I  use a .311" one to size down .314" bullets (see .30 W.C.F. practice loads toward the bottom of the page.)

Neat idea on using the Lee .314 push through sizer die to size .32 Colt brass.  

w44wcf

[ndnchf]

Thanks w44WCF.  I may just get a a .309" sizer and try it out.  They are pretty reasonably priced.

[Chev. William]

The Lee 'Push Through' sizing dies are a good idea, too bad they are not available for more sizes, such as ones that would work for my other projects, oh well.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

I've read some reviews on these push through dies on Midway's web site.  Most are positive, but a few people mentioned the size was way off from what it should be.  Makes me wonder about their quality control.

[ndnchf]

I went to a gunshow here in Fredericksburg today.  I was hoping to see a Lee push through sizer die set, but no luck.  I did pick up some Trail Boss, a brick of CCI 500 primers for the .32 Colt and a bag of 50 Starline .32 S&W long brass to make into .32 Colt. I was hoping to find an old dusty box of .32 Colt ammo, but no luck on that either.    Unfortunately, gun shows around here are mostly black guns, machetes, cheap swords, beef jerky, camo underwear :-(  There are a few interesting old guns mixed in.  But not a lot.  I go primarily for reloading supplies.  I go to the Civil War and antique shows to see the good stuff.