Slicking the action on Uberti's 1873 Cattleman

Started by Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks, March 25, 2012, 08:49:54 PM

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Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks

This has probably been said before. This is for those who shoot revolvers made by Uberti.  I have 6 of these.  Two 7.5" Cav (one is a Custer Model the other just a 7.5" Cattleman, both in Old Frame) ; Two Smoke Wagons Artillery models 5.5" in pre-war frame; and two Gunslinger Cattleman 4.75" barrels in Old Frame.  Did my own action work on the two 7.5" and 4.75". The two Smoke Wagon's came race ready as they are what Taylor's call "Deluxe Models".  For the one's that I did the action work on, I used Lee's gunslinger springs. Which has a cutdown Main Spring and Wire Trigger/Sear and Bolt Spring. I polished the Lee's Main Springs to a mirror finish both sides and I polished the wire trigger/sear and bolt spring, I flattened the end of the wire that rides on the trigger that lightened the trigger pull even more.  The Cattleman Series and others from Uberti come with with a Coil Spring and plunger and a screw for the Hand. This combination makes spinning the cylindar hard, and when you turn the cylindar it clicks. The Smoke Wagon's did not do this, when you spin the cylindar's they spin freely. The Cattlemen series does not. Here is the solution: Do not put the screw back in to hold the Hand Spring Coil and Plunger in place. It is not needed. By leaving that small tiny screw out, the Backstrap will hold the Coil Spring in place when reassembled, so the screw only puts more pressure on the Coil Spring which in turn puts more pressure on the plunger which presses against the Hand... all that pressure serves no purpose... other than make the cylindar hard to turn. I polished the Hand to a mirror finish where the plunger strikes or rides on the back side of the Hand.  I did not care for the ITALIAN SAFETY whereas the Base Pin is too long. I used my dremal and shorten the Base Pin... adios Italian Safety... not needed in CAS. I polished the Base Pin using my hand drill as a lathe and emery cloth in different grits up to 800 to put a mirror finsh on the Base Pin. Uberti makes all of their Ejector Springs too long..so I cut the ejector springs removing about 1 inch from them. When I reassembled I placed a cutout piece of 4oz leather underneath the main Spring where the screw holds it to the triggerguard.  None of my Uberti's had all those silly gadgets attached to the hammers so I did not have to remove any of them. All of my revolvers are now very slick and they function without a flaw. Now ifn I could just get the guy who pulls the trigger to function as good as they do.
"If I killed that kid, it was the best shot I ever made, and the dirtiest trick I ever did."

Coyote Hunter

This is gonna sound silly to the younger "tooth whitening strip" crowd, but here is an old trick from my young LE days in the 70's and early 80's. An old trooper told me to take my new S&W model 19 and fill up the guts with Crest or Colgate tooth polish. Then watch TV and keep cocking and uncocking the action for a while. After a week or so of doing this nightly, it will slick right up. Of course ya gotta clean it out before you went on duty, but your gun was minty fresh! ;D

Never tried it on my Uberti, but the next John Wayne movie I watch, I just might get out the old Crest.....
"The Lord Is My Shepherd, The Bible is my guide, My horse is my partner, Mr. Remrington's on my side."

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joec

Quote from: Coyote Hunter on March 27, 2012, 09:01:56 PM
This is gonna sound silly to the younger "tooth whitening strip" crowd, but here is an old trick from my young LE days in the 70's and early 80's. An old trooper told me to take my new S&W model 19 and fill up the guts with Crest or Colgate tooth polish. Then watch TV and keep cocking and uncocking the action for a while. After a week or so of doing this nightly, it will slick right up. Of course ya gotta clean it out before you went on duty, but your gun was minty fresh! ;D

Never tried it on my Uberti, but the next John Wayne movie I watch, I just might get out the old Crest.....

Tooth paste is nothing more than a polish and also works well for removing scratches on a CD/DVD.
Joe
NCOWS 3384

Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks

The tooth paste will certainly "polish", but I do not think it will weaken the main spring. For my age and the loss of power in my thumbs, the main spring as it comes ROB is pretty STIFF, too me it is TOO STIFF even ifn I shoot one handed and slip hammer with my off hand. Shooting Duelist and Gunslinger with the original factory main spring is just too painful... for me anyway.
The trigger pull is way too heavy as the pistol comes ROB.  I prefer my trigger pulls to be at 2.5 lbs and no more than 3 lbs...but that is me...
Why Uberti puts that small screw in on top of the Hand Spring Coil and Plunger is total ridiculious. IT SERVES NO PURPOSE other than making the HAND stiffer which in turn makes turning the cylinder even harder. The backstrap will hold the spring coil in place and it reduces all that friction.
If anyone questions this, do this:  Next time you detail strip your Uberti, look at the backside of the Hand and see the gouge marks made by the plunger ... IT IS BECAUSE OF THE SCREW... to much pressure.  Forrest Gump had it right when he said..."stupid is as stupid does." Guessin he resides at the Uberti factory......to each his own.
"If I killed that kid, it was the best shot I ever made, and the dirtiest trick I ever did."

Cliff Fendley

Back in the  70's and 80's we lapped our Ambassador fishing reels up by stripping them and filling with Crest toothpaste and spinning them while watching TV.

It really slicked them up.

I don't know if anybody still does that or if the new reels benefit from it. When I seldom fish I'm still using those same old reels.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

NCOWS 3345  RATS 576 NRA Life member

Johnson County Rangers

hp246

If this is too old a thread, sorry but didn't want to start unnecessary new post.  I want to slick up my two new Uberti Cattleman in .45 Colt.  I noticed that there are two kits.  One with flat sear spring and one with a wire sear spring.  What are the pros and cons of each?  Is the Wolff kit the way to go or is there another kit out there I should consider?

Coffinmaker

HP246,

Actually you have some "choices."  One, tune (re-grind) the factory springs.  That is a learning process.  Buy extra replacements while you learn to do it  ::)
VIT Gunparts sells a very nice reduced power Main Spring and has reduced Trigger Bolt springs.  The T/B  spring is about 30% of the hammer draw weight. 
"Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter" spring kit.  Main Spring and Wire type T/B Spring.
Wolff Springs.  I don't know if Wolff includes a wire spring or a flat spring.

When I was still open for business and got sick of the taste of ground steel, I switched to the the Lee's Gunsmithing main spring, and a Pietta T/B spring.  Wire springs will last near forever, but to me give a sort of mushy, soft feel to the action.  The flat Pietta spring gives
a much "crisper" feel.  The Pietta spring will also take a licking and keep on ticking.

For personal reasons, I don't like Wolff.  The springs may be fine however.

Coffinmaker

45 Dragoon

Yap,
If you'll learn to fix what's in the gun, you won't have to buy music wire! Of course, some guns come with music wire inum (like my El Patron Competition). That's OK, you can get good flat springs and correct the problem!!
The problem with the coil and plunger hand spring set up is, cylinder throw-by (over rotation). The hand has two jobs, it turns the cylinder AND brakes the cylinder to allow the bolt to enter the lock notch. A "free wheeling cylinder" may be cool in the movies but its hell on the cylinder and the notches. The hand will slip over the ratchet teeth on a cylinder even if they were just cut teeth. But, the teeth on your cylinder have a ramp that leads from the bottom of a tooth to the top of the next one. This is the braking surface. Without the brake being applied, cylinder damage is just ahead!! If you "short stroke" a Ruger (I'm a fan of Ruger) watch it throw-by. With a flat hand spring (Colt style), you can tune it light enough to spin easy while still having enough brake action to prevent throw-by.
It would help you tremendously to get " The Colt Single Action Revolvers A Shop Manual, Vols 1&2" by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It will teach you how these guns were assembled and what to do to extend the parts life. (Even how to do some slickin up!!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

hp246

Thanks Coffinmaker and 45 Dragoon.  I already saw reference to the SHop Manuals and have them on order.

Cliff Fendley

I've had decent luck with the Wolff springs. The wire bolt trigger springs work great but I have had to sometimes tune the main springs to get them right.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

NCOWS 3345  RATS 576 NRA Life member

Johnson County Rangers

45 Dragoon

Wire springs are just not crisp and snappy!! I have yet to break a flat spring that was tuned (adjusted) to do its job. I have made wire springs (years ago) that eventually did break.

The original design is very sound if set up correctly.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Abilene

Most of my single actions have spring kits only.  Two of my Colts have full action jobs, but they were bought used with timing problems, and that was back before I knew how to do stuff like that.  The others, both Colts and Cimarrons, have all felt very smooth with only the springs. as the timing has been fine on them.  My 4 '51 Richards-Masons also needed only spring kits (one did need the timing advanced just a hair, as it would over-rotate about once per match when shooting 2-handed).  However, I got those a good while back, and they didn't have the clunkiness to them that some of the new conversions have these days. 

I, too, prefer flat springs.  Uberti trigger/bolt springs are not reliable, as far as cracking/breaking.  Some might be fine, but some break right away.  I think that the aftermarket flat trigger-bolt springs made in Amercia by several makers are way more reliable. Never hear of them breaking. I've heard the Pietta springs are pretty good but I have no experience with them.
Storm #21   NCOWS L-208   SASS 27489

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Reverend P. Babcock Chase

Howdy Gun Cranks,

All this talk about springs, breakage and replacements got me thinking. I've been told that that it's a good idea to have replacements at hand when disaster strikes. Most of my sixguns are Uberti's with one Pietta Rem. The question I have is about my pair of USFA Rodeos. Since I can't call up those guys for parts, whose replacements are recommended? I like the idea of US made parts, but will go for Italian if that's what's available.

What say you'all?

Reverend Chase

45 Dragoon

Most of the guns I work on are new and I rarely need a new part. When I do, I usually go VTI Gun Parts. Easy to deal with and fast delivery.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Coffinmaker

Reverend P. Babcock Chase,
I have good news.  I also have bad ....... news.  The good news:  It's a really nice warn, dry, sunny day in my neck of the woods today.
And now Ladies and Gentlemen, the bad news:  You cannot get USFA PARTS.  Since USFA went DARWIN, parts are not available.  Now,
for the not so bad news.  USFA were really really well made, well fitted, well finished ....... VERY VERY high end Uberti's.  USFA started with Uberti parts, finished under the "Blue Dome" and finished with excellent USA made copies of Uberti parts.  So ....... should you need a "serious part" you can go to VTI Gunparts and buy a Ubert part.  It will take some fitting, but it will work .. eventually.
Replacements for Disasters.  Interesting thoughts.  Your Rodeos aren't prone to "disasters."  Very well made guns.  The springs that power your Rodeo's are an entirely different matter.  The springs ....... Suck.  ???  The weakest link is the Hand or Pawl spring, thin and flat.  They can and will break.  If one breaks (not that often) get a new spring from VTI.  Saves having to fit a new hand.  Or you can modify to coil spring and plunger to power the hand  ;)  Trigger/Bolt spring.  The USFAspring can be nicely "tuned" if you know how.  I do.  I think it's a waste of time.  :P  Get a Pietta Trigger/Bolt spring from VTI.  The Pietta is a flat spring.  I agree completely with 45Dragoon.  Wire T/B springs have a soft mushy feel to them, like caned peas.  >:(  Flat springs feel ..... Crisp, like a fresh Honeycrisp Apple.  :D  Da Main Spring belongs under a Dodge Ram.  :o  Way overkill.  The OEM spring can be "tuned" if you know how.  I do.  But, I learned to hate the taste of ground steel.  :-\  I would suggest either VTI Gunparts reduced power main spring or "Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter" main spring   :-*(Brownells).
In all likelyhood, your USFA Rodeos will a good while longer than you will.  A little maintenance goes a long way  ;D

Coffinmaker     

 
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