Open top help

RWK · October 29, 2011, 05:03:19 PM

Newbie help

I am looking at 1872 open top or an 1860 Richards mason conversion.
1872 open top 45LC when you move to halfcocked open the loading gate move to click you can't load or unload shell will hit the frame, you must rotate cylinder back.

1860 Richards mason conversion 38sp when you move to halfcocked, open the loading gate move to click you can't unload ejector will hit the cylinder you must rotate cylinder back.

On both these guns the ejector rod was a pain to rotate and line up to eject

Fast forward
A buddy has a 1872 open top 44-40 cylinder lines up on click and loads and unloads fine
Ejector rod runs and is smooth as silk

What gives?

I have also read 45LC is not the best choice for any open top.

Does SASS have a barrel length of 71/2 inch?
Thank so much

Charlie Bowdre · October 29, 2011, 05:23:30 PM

hello
This will not help much but I have a pair of Uberti 51 Navy RM conversions in 38sp. The are great revolvers but they both have the same ejector problem as you note. Not sure of a fix . I just get use to rolling the cylinder back a touch so it will line up.
Enjoy
Dutchy

Coffinmaker · October 29, 2011, 07:43:07 PM

The problem you are having is common to the Open Top type of Uberti guns. The ejector rod does not correctly line up with the chambers and the cylinder often does not line up perfectly with the cut out in the recoil shield. You can spend a lot of time and effort to fix the ejector rod ....... or just learn to rotate the cylinder to the point where it will eject.
The .45 should line up for loading. If it doesn't, send it back. Chances are the cut out for ejection/loading is slightly miss-cut.

Coffinmaker

Charlie Bowdre · October 29, 2011, 08:16:53 PM

I should of added that I also have a pair of Uberti open tops in 45 Schofield and it lines up bang on .
d.

Mako · October 29, 2011, 09:13:28 PM

RWK,
Your buddy doesn't have a an 1872 Open Top in .44-40.

You've been doing a lot of reading and searching on the forum trying to figure out what to post. Coffinmaker who has a lot of experience with Open tops as well as Dutchy have answered you. Next...

Regards,
Mako

RWK · October 30, 2011, 08:23:22 AM

Quote from: Mako on October 29, 2011, 09:13:28 PM
RWK,
Your buddy doesn't have a an 1872 Open Top in .44-40.

Your correct its a 44sp I am so sorry that's the 2nd mistake I have made today

You've been doing a lot of reading and searching on the forum trying to figure out what to post.

This comment bewilders me. So I am trying to pad my posts with doing a lot of research.

Mako

The OT is totally new to me . I hope you are not representative of the shooters here or I am in the wrong place
Thanks for the not so warm welcome.

Coffinmaker who has a lot of experience with Open tops as well as Dutchy have answered you. Next...
Then You write Next... Mako you must have forgot you were new once

I would like to thank Coffinmaker and Dutchy for there help

BUT all my ?s have not been answerd

Raven · October 30, 2011, 09:41:56 AM

RWK,

At the risk of pissing Mako off again. I'm sure that he means well, but, Mako is socialy inept. He eventualy pisses everyone off, he just started with you early.

Coffinmaker hit it right on the money.
And the .45 Colt OP has a clearence cut under the breech of the barrel for the gas ring on the cylinder....this leaves a very thin section of the barrel that has a tendancy to crack.

Anyway, WELCOME to the forum.....Like any forum we have one or two annoying members (I may be one of them) but for the most part we have a very good group of guys around here.

Raven

Mako · October 30, 2011, 02:43:56 PM

Quote from: RWK on October 30, 2011, 08:23:22 AM
...BUT all my ?s have not been answerd

RWK,
You've already spent a lot of time using the search functions on this forum. We would be glad to be of assistance, I'm just not sure there is anything we can answer that you haven't already read.

What Raven didn't tell you was that I love to "hear myself talk" and if asked a question I will cover you up with information. How now, may we help you?

Regards,
Mako

RWK · October 30, 2011, 04:47:34 PM

Maco

I need to know if Sass has a 7 1/2 inch barrel length limit because they make some of the open tops 8 inch,

Why because I have a 50 year old open top, it's killed thousands of Indians. The old war horse has only a little life left in her now. Cylinder only turns by hand now, trigger still works, ammo low now, lost on the battle fields of yesteryear. It's a big gun for an 8 year old full size with an 8 inch barrel. 45 Colt right on the side

I want to get a real one now because this is what started it all for me

What length barrel
Should I wait for Nickel
What model would be the closest

Abilene · October 30, 2011, 06:25:30 PM

RWK,
That's a cool shooter ya got there. Looks to be in fine shape for its age and all the skirmishes it has seen

There is no barrel limit for SASS pistolas. I have seen a fellow with some Italian SAA's with 18" barrels.

Now, just how close to your old warhorse do you want a new gun to be? None of the Uberti cartridge guns come with the rammer attached except the Man With No Name conversion, and that is a .38 with octagonal barrel. If you want the rammer look, you could buy an 1860 Army percussion pistol and then put a conversion cylinder in it to shoot .45LC. The conversion cylinder won't be fluted but ya can't have everything ;

I am not positive if the .45LC conversion cylinders are available with a loading gate or not (and if so you would need to mill out a loading port in the frame). Otherwise you have to pull the barrel to reload.

If you buy a '72 OT or a Richards-Mason, you won't have a rammer but you will have an ejector and the gun is made of better steel than the percussion gun. And if you want it in 45LC, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Yes there have been a few OT's that have split the bottom rear of the barrel but they are the small percentage exceptions. And if it happens within the warranty period it will be covered. Just keep your loads mild.

Nickled? Well that's your choice. If you go the cap'n'ball roiute with a conversions cylinder you could send everything to be plated. If you order a nickled gun from Cimarron they will take a stock gun and send it to Ford Plating in Florida before shipping it to you. I'm not sure what they other importers do, but check before ordering a nickled gun because if they then order it that way from Uberti it will take a looong time before it gets here.

Good luck and have fun.

RWK · October 30, 2011, 06:53:22 PM

If you buy a '72 OT or a Richards-Mason, you won't have a rammer but you will have an ejector and the gun is made of better steel than the percussion gun. And if you want it in 45LC, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Yes there have been a few OT's that have split the bottom rear of the barrel but they are the small percentage exceptions. And if it happens within the warranty period it will be covered. Just keep your loads mild.

I am thinking of getting a '72 OT or a Richards-Mason in 38sp 7 1/2 or 8 I am a big guy but shes still going to be heavy
R-M have more little parts so I might be better off with the 72 OT . I already have 2 Ruger SASS 357

Taylor says 3 to 4 months for nickel (not sure it worth it, its also $90.00 more)the wait. She would be pretty though

They don't have consecutive serial # in 7 1/2 but they do in 8 or 5 1/2 inch. If I get 2

So many decisions on guns I know little about.

Thanks for all the help so far

Long Johns Wolf · October 31, 2011, 02:48:16 AM

RWK & campfire: you might find a fully nickel plated conversion not useful.
It looks cool but it is difficult to align those sights of the Richards-Mason in bright sunlight.
Long Johns Wolf

River City John · October 31, 2011, 09:12:58 AM

The '72 Open Top was a revolver designed from the ground up as a cartridge revolver using new parts. 7 1/2" barrel.

The Richards/Mason was a cartridge conversion done on the .44 'Army' cap 'n' ball revolver frame which had an 8" barrel.

The toy you have is based loosely on the Army cap 'n' ball offered with the fluted cylinder, though the toy manufacturer 'imagineered' it into a cartridge gun that doesn't quite match the R/M conversion.

You have not said what powder you intend to use. If you're going for the "buck and roar of the .44", then black powder is the path as all of these revolvers were black powder era guns. In that case nickel would have an slight advantage in being easier to see fouling when cleaning.

RCJ

Major 2 · October 31, 2011, 10:20:25 AM

A couple of logs I'd like to throw on the fire

My Richard conversion is Nickel , I have 0 issue with the sights on sunny days .
Nickel is somewhat darker to my eye to polished Stainless somehow not as bright ... $:-\$
Frankly, I don't use them in SASS anyway (I shoot NCOWS) , the gun shoots POA @ 7 - 10 yards
I point at the target dead center and I hit within a tight 1 1/2 " of center that's plenty close for
WAS.
Oh ! mine is in 44 Colt and I shoot OEM Black Hills mostly ( as I bought a case a while back )
I also have some OEM Black Dawg BP Cartridges but they are getting scarce so I save them for BP shoots only.

I have no issue with the arbor lengh either, course this may have been addressed , when the gun was "Smithed" .

The Cap gun in RWK's photo is a Hubley COLT 45 ...I had one as kid,
I'm quite sure it is the GUN that made the 1860 Army MY very favorite revolver.
I own several .... including lettered ones.

Slowhand Bob · October 31, 2011, 11:00:56 AM

I have my preferred guns in .44 and am now waiting for the funds to obtain a pair of .45 conversion cylinders for them, hopefully not long after the first of the year. I have made the decision to try pulling the barl for reloads in the beginning and go from there. This will let me still use my guns for cap and ball also. A really good alternative to the .45 Colt is the new Cowboy .45 Special round, and is pretty close to a .45acp round made for revolvers. If you want to really game it up and save wear and tear on the gun, there is a really ultra light weight bullet out there now for use in the .45 pistols. I think it is little more than a hollowed out bullet.

Most have tended to disagree with me but I like the feel of the Pietta Navy cap and ball grips much better than I do the Uberti manufactured conversion. The bell shaped grip frame that people complain about on the Pietta Navy is actually close to as good as it gets for me, shooting Duellist style.

Raven has been pretty helpful for me in the past when going the Kirst route for conversions on Remingtons. I was well past the age fer Mattels 'Shootin Shell' guns (right?) but do remember some of the kids in the family getting them and it made me wish I was a kid again. Getting shot with the plastic didnt hurt near as bad as the Daiseys we battled with as kids!

PS: thanks for the correction on the toy guns Major 2, When did the Hubley come out as I am unfamiliar with those but they do look classy for toys?

Major 2 · October 31, 2011, 05:51:27 PM

Without a real target search I'd say the Hubley Colt 45 about "57" I'd say...I had a Mattel Fanner 50 and two Shoot'n' Sixes
seems to me they came a tad later like 57- 58 maybe for the Fanner and 59 for the Shoot'n' Sixes.

Daisy had the Spitt'n' image 94 Winchester in 1959 and I had to get one of those and Mattel had a Baby Rolling Block that single shot the the same Shoot'n' Six Greenie Stick'un cap and launched the same plastic bullet....

These were the gems of my Western collection, along with a complete Palliden Rig with cap Pistol ( best Leather Cap gun rig I ever saw, for Kid's set )

I liked the Mattel's , but it was the Hubley that instilled the subline love and lust for the 1860 Army.

RWK · October 31, 2011, 07:50:29 PM

Major 2

Mine has many fond memories, my brother didn't even get one. LOL It was a whole lot of fun.
I just found a place that repairs old cap guns its $35.00 plus parts.
May just get that old shooter fixed up.

I sure like a nickel gun. 3 or 4 months wait is a killer

I am still trying to figure this statement out. I wonder what I wrote that was wrong?

PS: thanks for the correction on the toy guns Major 2, When did the Hubley come out as I am unfamiliar with those but they do look classy for toys?

Slowhand Bob · November 01, 2011, 09:07:50 AM

I am totally confused with dates on both makes of guns, I had never seen a Hubley and was a young man and married before seeing my first 'Shootin Shell' but the dates indicate that they were around when I was a boy, though perhaps a bit old fer toy guns. Funny but I have little doubt that I would have chosen the SAA style over the Hubleys Open Top style, as a boy, but now the early cap and ball Colt look of the Hubley is very much more attractive to me. Spent awhile looking at both versions yesterday and reading what I could find on their history. Prices on the collectors site I was checking cost upwards to as much as some new firearms. Since they have no real link to my childhood I guess I'll save the money for real gun projects and I have more of those in mind than I can currently fund. Anyone in the market fer some really old pound dogs with lots of expensive medication needs?

RWK · November 02, 2011, 06:38:57 PM

Well

I ordered two Army 71/2 open tops 72 38sp and nickel.
They will be here in about 4 months ( we will see)

If I cant see them in the bright sun I will just blacken them with my carbide smoker from my hi-power days

Thanks to all

Coffinmaker · November 04, 2011, 11:22:47 PM

LJW,

After due consideration ......... I would be willing to take that Nickel conversion and save you the frustration caused by those shiny "same colour" sights.

Coffinmaker