Stupid Question

[wildman1]

THANKS. WM

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

One last question.  In the Smokeless classes, a shooter could use black powder in the revolvers and smokeless in the rifle and shotgun, correct?

[Dutch Limbach]

A fly in the ointment is: 2 pistols are NOT REQUIRED for any class. Some posses, GLFMC for one, only use 1 pistol for ALL classes. Also, a shooter can choose to use one pistol and reload on the clock.

To REQUIRE 2 pistols be used for particular classes would infringe on the sovereignty of local posses that prefer to use one pistol.

Dutch
Former GLFMC Judge

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[Windy City Joe]

Smokeless means smokeless in all your rifles, shotguns and pistols,
Black Powder means Black Powder in all your rifles, shotguns and pistols,

[bowiemaker]

The last two posts above really illustrate the need for clarification. Different members have different takes on it. So you are saying that there really are no 3 or 4 gun classes? Likewise, I was told that I could shoot my BP cap & ball in "Working Cowboy", I would just be scored as smokless.

Since the NCOWS by-laws state: "All NCOWS shooting classes, as established by By-Law, must be made available to all shooters at each National, Regional or Charter Posse Shoot. " I think those classes should be clearly defined and and run in a uniform manner at all NCOWS events.

If local posses want to add additional classes or specialty shoots, I see no problem with that.

[Cherokee Reb]

Do what I do. I show up, tell the bookkeeper I have a pistol, a rifle and shoot BP in my cartridges. I am magically placed in a category that they tell me and I soon forget. After a day of shooting and having fun ( read poking fun at Jeff and Homer) I go home and clean said guns. A couple days later, an email appears telling me how I did in the category I have since forgotten.

Mingo

He who doesn't care how well he shoots as long as he can shoot....

[Dr. Bob]

O. Outlaw,

If you shoot smokeless in any firearm, you would have to be in the smokeless class, but you may shoot your C & B revolver at the Nationals with Black Powder.

Dr, Bob
NCOWS Judge

[Dutch Limbach]

...Since the NCOWS by-laws state: "All NCOWS shooting classes, as established by By-Law, must be made available to all shooters at each National, Regional or Charter Posse Shoot. " I think those classes should be clearly defined and and run in a uniform manner at all NCOWS events.

That's just the way SASS does it. Maybe NCOWS should specify the size of the targets, and the distance they should be placed from the shooter. Just the way SASS does it.

[bowiemaker]

I don't really care about target size or distance. As long we are all shooting at the same targets, I like a little variety.

What we can shoot at the targets is where I get confused.

[Dutch Limbach]

I like a little variety.

So do I and most people.

The shooters at GLFMC VOTED that they would prefer to only use one pistol. The Johnson County Rangers and SMVS also only use one pistol. I don't know if they had a vote on the matter, but they do it because that is how their members prefer to shoot their matches.

Mandating that EVERY POSSE does things the same way all the time is the big government approach. In the 12 years I've been associated with NCOWS the organization has always prefered to take the small goverment approach. That, along with the Historical aspect, is what I find appealing about the group.

[bowiemaker]

The problem is that it makes it hard or impossible for a newcomer to figure out what they need to participate.  And, if you get outfitted to shoot with one NCOWS posse, you might find that you are not legal for another posse or a bigger NCOWS event.

My point is if there is some uniform classes and rules among all NCOWS posses one could feel comfortable shooting with any group knowing that they were properly equipped and pretty much knowing what to expect at the shoot. If the posse wants to do something different in addition to the established rules and shooting classes, great, there's your variety. If I have been shooting "Working Cowboy" with JCR, then I would naturally expect the same rules if I signed up to shoot WC at the Nationals.

I know I am the new kid on the block and I am not trying to stir the pot but I am offering my perspective as a newcomer as food for thought.

[Dr. Bob]

bowiemaker,

Working Cowboy is the class with only one revolver to begin with.  You will find it the same at the Nationals.

The Shootist and Duelist classes will shoot 2 revolvers, a pistol caliber rifle and a shotgun. 

Pistoleer will shoot 2 C & B revolvers a pre 1873 rifle [Spencer, Henry or 1866 Winchester] and a double barrel shotgun which may be percussion and will only shoot two shotgun targets.

The Originals class will shoot 1 revolver and one pistol caliber rifle and meet the other requirements of documentation of all equipment & clothing and have a persona biography, all to a specific year.  Must be 3 to have this class included.

These classes must be offered at Regional and National shoots.

When you attend monthly and annual shoots at NCOWS posses, other classes may be available and most will allow the Originals class if there are 3 shooter present.

Since NOCWS is a member governed organization with NO PAID staff, there is a lot more latitude in what local posses can do at their own shoots.  The classes are unlikely to change any time soon as there are so many divisions to the existing classes that score keeping and awards, even certificates are time consuming and can be expensive if more that a certificate is given.

I can explain in more detail of you want to know!

[bowiemaker]

Thanks Dr. Bob.  Can you tell me what a "Charter Posse" is?

What I am hearing here is that NCOWS does have rules, shooting categories and by-laws, if you can make sense of them. But, it really doesn't matter except at regionals and the Nationals since every posse if free to change the rules as they see fit.

I find that discouraging. It means I am much less likely to travel to shoot with other posses or regional events. I understand the big government/little goverment analogy but I can't get my little mind to grasp why a group wants to become an NCOWS posse but not want to follow the NCOWS guildlines and/or by-laws. If I entered a bowling tournament I would not expect them to say we only use 9 bowling pins and 8 pound bowling balls when I got there.

I'll shut up now.

[Dr. Bob]

A charter posse is one that has met the NCOWS requirements and approved by the Congress. 

If you want to go to shoot with a posse that you are not familiar with, the posse representative is listed in the Shootist with a phone number and most have an email address.  You will find this towards the back of the issue.  Page 29 of the July/Aug 2010 issue.  You can contact them and find out what classes and number of revolvers used at their shoots.  I hear from friends who are also SASS members that many SASS posses are offering a 2 gun class like our Working Cowboy!  I'm glad that you have asked the questions and given the view of a newer member.  I hope that we will get clearly understandable info here and on the ncows.org web page.

Regards,

Da Judge 

[bowiemaker]

OK. I'll look into it.

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

For the Smokeless classes, Tally Book says "may use smokeless".  That's why I interpreted it as being able to mix it up.  Now I am really CONFUSED.

[Patrick Henry Brown]

I've never heard that all arms must use smokeless to be used in the smokeless catagories. Does that mean that a pard shooting in a smokeless catagory would draw a penalty for mixed rounds? Our understanding down here has always been that BP classes must use BP or subs exclusively, but the other catagories may be shot using either smokeless or BP (or sub). We actually have several folks that shoot a mixture sometimes.

If you limit smokeless to strictly smokeless, then C&B pistols could only be shot in BP catagories. I do not believe that has been or is currently the intention of NCOWS or its Bylaws.

[jefff]

just be glad you don't get all the goverment you pay for.WC is not powder limited shoot what you want in one rifle one pistol.if you shoot smokless in any firearm then sign up in smokeless one hand or two hand catagory witch at the national is a 4 gun match

[Dr. Bob]

Jeff is right!  If you are shooting smokeless in either the revolver or rifle and black powder in the other, register as shooting smokeless.  Registering for smokeless does not prohibit you from using black powder in one or more firearms. [4 gun classes]

[Irish Dave]

bowiemaker:

Let's see if I can clarify a little.

1) The "rules" do NOT change from posse to posse. NCOWS legal firearms must be used (with temporary exceptions for newbies just getting started). NCOWS rules regarding attire and accessories also must be followed (with the same temporary newbie exceptions).

2) What may change here and there is that NCOWS does allow local clubs some lattitude in experimenting with classes. Nonetheless, I have never head of a shooter being denied the opportunity to shoot a class as defined in the bylaws. For example: At GLFMC, we have decided to only use one pistol (it was really kind of a moot point sine we are 99 percent Working Cowboy shooters anyway). However, if a shooter shows up and wishes to shoot one of the bylaws-defined two-revolver classes, he/she is always accomodated and allowed to do so.

3) That may sound confusing, but it really is not that complicated. Local clubs are pretty much expected to offer any NCOWS-approved class provided someone wants to shoot in it. The difference is that local clubs are also free to experiment with additional class types, if they so choose, PROVIDED NCOWS rules on firearms, attire and accessories are followed.

4) If you are NCOWS legal according to the bylaws, then you are NCOWS legal no matter what NCOWS match you attend.


Does that help at all?