Another Hat Question

Deadeye Dick · February 02, 2011, 08:58:33 PM

I have access to a very nice cowboy hat at a very reasonable price that is medium size, is there any way to increase the size to large without ruining the hat. I figure some of you pard's had to come across this problem before. Del, being this is your specialty what do you think? Just realized this probably doesn't belong in the historical society forum. Don't know how to move it, but St. George or Silver Creek can feel free to put it where it belongs. Sorry about that.

Deadeye Dick

Delmonico · February 02, 2011, 10:12:28 PM

Here, I covered this a while ago, read it over and hollor if you have more questions.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,11542.0.html

GunClick Rick · February 02, 2011, 10:35:17 PM

Might be a bit of a stretch on a good hat especially,the best way is to use a wood hat stretcher that can be found at antique stores now and then.

Delmonico · February 02, 2011, 11:02:28 PM

Deadeye, I glanced at that post and added the link, went back after I ate and looked it over better. If it's sized medium instead of a number and fraction size like 7 1/8, 7 1/4, I can tell you it's a cheap wool felt and not worth the trouble no matter the price. Save the money and step up to better quality.

BTW the best way I've found to check quality of a hat is to rub it on your cheek, the softer and finer it feels, the better the quality. The exception to this is the bison fur hats "Hat Brands Inc" aka Stetson, Resitol make, these feel really coarse like a rough wool felt, but I'm amazed how well they hold up. I've got one I've used for daily wear over two years and it's had nothing done but light cleaning. It's been rained on, hailed on and snowed on. They retail for around $100-125 and they are one of the best hats I've been around in that price range.

BTW the system of the more X's the better the hat really don't mean much, there is no industry standard anymore. Old time hats and really good customs a 5X is 50% Beaver and the rest rabbit or nutria. 7X is 70X and so on. I have a Rand 10X that I'll put up against any modern name brand of 30X or even more. Rand uses the old system and the hat is 100% Beaver.

Deadeye Dick · February 03, 2011, 11:07:43 AM

Wow Del, thanks for the information. The older topic you referenced was worth its weight in gold. Right on topic.
The hat I'm talking about is a size 7 and I think I'm a size 7 1/8 to 7 1/4. I'll have to go get the missus' tape to see for sure. I don't remember the brand. It did have what appeared a plastic liner at the top of the inside of the hat and the wool seemed to be very thick and stiff. The hat was used and had a $25 dollar price tag on it. It appeared new and unworn. I was worried about being able to stretch the inner hat band. May have to go back and look at it again. I would try to reshape it some as I want to get as close to period dress as possible. With my luck it's probably gone.
Deadeye Dick

Delmonico · February 03, 2011, 11:30:24 AM

You should be able to go one size with a wool felt, 1/8 on fraction size, a bit over 3/8 on circumference. If it's a really thick one then it is a cheaper one, but since it's sized medium that already would be my guess. Those type often don't sell for much more than that new in the store in the correct size. Bailey makes some of the best quality wool felts I've seen and they often sell for around $50 and are sized normal fraction hat sizes.

Dead I · February 03, 2011, 01:10:05 PM

I have a wooden hat stretcher. It opens up fore and aft with a screw in the middle that pushes the circular shaped device open. It stretches a round hat to an oval one, which is what I need. It seems to open a 7 3/8 to close to a 7 1/2. It appears that my head is getting larger as I age....which makes sense since I'm getting so much smarter.

I wet the hat pretty good and then stick in the stretcher and stretch the dickens out of it. I leave it for a month or more. The stretching does tend to bend the brim a bit, but I don't mind.

My source for hats is old stores. I eschew new hats. I want'm old and funky. Dirty is okay. They do clean up. My trouble is I've got a head the size of a watermellon and almost all hats are too small. Many old hats that I find are actually unworn, just funky. In the Old West they actually wore a lot of straw boaters, which is what many of Custer's officers wore in the BLBH. I have my grandfather's. It fits me like a glove. They are very comfortable. I like'em.

Delmonico · February 03, 2011, 01:22:57 PM

At one time a lot of hats came in round, regular oval and long oval and you bought the size and shape that fit your head. Today most tend to be round to regular oval, no choice. easier to make one a longer oval than a rounder oval. Wish I had a dollar for everyone that told me their head was getting bigger cause they were growing smarter.

Once again by not using steam you're making a 10 minute job last way to long.

Not all the so called straw hats you see in photos were straw, a lot of them were palm leaf and were made very different than a woven straw hat. Today the easiest way to get that type on impression is to use a palm leaf hat. Real straw hats are few and far between, lots of things they call straw hats, but they ain't and don't even look like one from a distance.

Texas Lawdog · February 03, 2011, 04:16:13 PM

I bought one of those wooden hat stretchers from The Fort a couple of years ago. It is really handy.

Deadeye Dick · February 03, 2011, 05:40:56 PM

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge. Think I will go ahead and purchase and try stretching it. Will let you know how it came out. Now I hope it will still be there the next time I get into town.
If you haven't gone to the forum site Del recommended, you're missing a lot of good information.
Deadeye Dick

Delmonico · February 03, 2011, 06:15:56 PM

Dick, you might want to check this one out also:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,11520.0.html

I need to bring my camera to work more and get some more how to pictures. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a western store with good hatters. Most simple things like shaping and cleaning, plus stiffening are not that hard to do either. One can trim a brim with out the brim trimmer I use if you are slow and careful, grommets for vents and windstrings are not hard either, a pop rivet gun and a nail will put them in, the small grommets can be bought at most craft stores that sell scap booking supplies. My wife has lots of them that would work, the stars might be neats, have seen some late 1890's to early 20th century hat pictures with em in them. The hearts I'd pass on.

GunClick Rick · February 03, 2011, 06:16:43 PM

BTW the best way I've found to check quality of a hat is to rub it on your cheek, the softer and finer it feels, the better the quality. The exception to this is the bison fur hats "Hat Brands Inc" aka Stetson, Resitol make, these feel really coarse like a rough wool felt, but I'm amazed how well they hold up. I've got one I've used for daily wear over two years and it's had nothing done but light cleaning. It's been rained on, hailed on and snowed on. They retail for around $100-125 and they are one of the best hats I've been around in that price range.

I ain't gonna say it

Delmonico · February 03, 2011, 06:32:26 PM

Quote from: GunClick Rick on February 03, 2011, 06:16:43 PM
BTW the best way I've found to check quality of a hat is to rub it on your cheek, the softer and finer it feels, the better the quality. The exception to this is the bison fur hats "Hat Brands Inc" aka Stetson, Resitol make, these feel really coarse like a rough wool felt, but I'm amazed how well they hold up. I've got one I've used for daily wear over two years and it's had nothing done but light cleaning. It's been rained on, hailed on and snowed on. They retail for around $100-125 and they are one of the best hats I've been around in that price range.

I ain't gonna say it

Your face, Rick.

Delmonico · February 03, 2011, 09:50:41 PM

Here, for all you hat benders, is one I did a couple years ago for a pard. He's one of my camp helpers and he liked the hat I often wear in camp.

Mine was made up from a reject Stetson blank I got a hold of, but don't know how to get a hold of the guy I got mine from any more. From the feel of the felt, this one I picked out would have become a 20X or 30X, but a slight flaw put it in the reject bin.

Greg went searching on the internet and found someone who had 100% fur felt hat blanks for somewhere around $10 and I said he should grab one. He was a bit disappointed when it came in because it was a real blank, not a finished blank like mine was. He brought it to me and I knew it was no problem, I've watched the videos that Hat Brands Inc, sends out to Western stores on how they build hats:

I took it home and tossed it in a big pot of boiling water and then hand worked it in my deep-freeze and stuffed the crown with newspaper and let it dry a day or so. I then took this to work with me.

I stiffened it some and went to work ironing out the wrinkles:

I then sewed in a sweat band made out of a chunk of wool blanket like mine has:

I edge stitched it with my sewing machine so it would not unravel.

(I plan on buying a tanned goat hide in the future and learn to make proper leather sweat bands. Lambskin makes the best, but goat is cheaper to learn on and it still better than the bands in 99% of the hats on the market. My Rand has a 2 inch lamb skin one and lets just say when I learn to make them a lot of my hats are going to be refitted.)

I had Greg come in and then we stretched the hat to fit his head, I had took the the brim trimmer and trimmed the brim even, he added a hitched horse hair band he already had and I sewed it down. The brim trimming is roughed out, but not finished in this picture.

And here is the hat with Greg making roast beef hash for breakfast at the GAF Grand Muster at Ft Hartsuff in Oct 2008.

Next time I make a hat liner I'll take pictures and post them. Nylon taffita works well, but my Rand has silk and I would like to add this to my better hats also. So many projects, so little time.

Deadeye Dick · February 03, 2011, 11:02:31 PM

Asked my son-in-law to pickup the hat for me tonight, but when he got there it had already sold. Oh well will start looking for a good deal on another one.
I've learned a lot on this topic.
Del, you are talented. Great job on the hat and great job cooking.
Thanks for sharing.
Deadeye Dick

Delmonico · February 03, 2011, 11:49:00 PM

Quote from: Deadeye Dick on February 03, 2011, 11:02:31 PM
Asked my son-in-law to pickup the hat for me tonight, but when he got there it had already sold. Oh well will start looking for a good deal on another one.
I've learned a lot on this topic.
Del, you are talented. Great job on the hat and great job cooking.
Thanks for sharing.
Deadeye Dick

Well if you were closer you'd be welcome in camp.

Deadeye Dick · February 05, 2011, 11:20:14 AM

Del,
I'd be honored to partake at your chuck wagon and I'm sure I would be fascinated with true western lore.
Thanks,
Deadeye Dick

GunClick Rick · February 05, 2011, 02:52:01 PM

I didn't see a keyhole fire in that pic $:-\$ and by god don't get no ashes in my noodles!

Next time they burn Ca. i'll call ya shouldn't be long now,weather is warmin up.

Delmonico · February 05, 2011, 03:11:43 PM

Key hole fires are for Boy Scout merit badges Rick, I make cosie fires for lots of coals for lots of ovens. Here is one, had plenty of fuel and it was damp and cold so I needed some heat for my body till bed time:

Stu Kettle · February 05, 2011, 03:18:41 PM

Quote from: Delmonico on February 05, 2011, 03:11:43 PM
Key hole fires are for Boy Scout merit badges Rick, I make cosie fires for lots of coals for lots of ovens. Here is one, had plenty of fuel and it was damp and cold so I needed some heat for my body till bed time:

Thanks for clearing that up for me - I was about to ask what the heck's a keyhole fire. I never made it past the webelos, & I like a big fire & plenty of coals.