"Fairweather Christian" Gun Belt /Cartridge Belt

[Chaa Duu Ba Its Iidan]

I have a question regarding the cartridge belts I've seen that are called "Fairweather Christian" belts and the question is this:
WHY is this term used for these belts?  No explanation I can come up with makes any logical as to why they are called this.

So, can any of you shed any light on this issue?

The belts I've seen referred to in this manner (either period pieces or reproductions) seemed to be military sword belts or waist belts that had been converted along the way, typically during the Civil War and afterwards, in the West.  Those I've seen are typically no more than two inches wide and usually have a military-type buckle on them.

To me, the term, "Fairweather Christian" is akin to the term ""Fairweather Friend" (meaning someone who's your buddy with things are going along well, but abandons you when you need their help).  In the case of "Christians" I believe it means someone who goes to church, if not regularly, but often enough to be referred to as a church member, but at the drop of a hat, uses any excuse to stay home and does so especially in bad weather (hence, the name).  Also, in my mind, this "Fairweather Christian" terminology applies to those who are notably unavailable or unreachable when the church is in trouble financially, needing an injection of cash from its members, needs a bunch of church members to pitch in and do some work, donate goods or services for fundraising projects, such as bake sales, rummage sales, etc.  If that is not correct use of the term, someone please jump in and say so.

If the above is correct, how does a reference like that apply to a cartridge/gun belt that was made from a military belt and originally intended for another military purpose?  Or, perhaps my thinking of where the belt originated is wrong.  Were these "Fairweather Christian" belts originally Sunday-go-to-meeting trouser belts that were converted to "not-so-Christian" use?  Doesn't seem right, because in those days, most trousers were meant to be held up by suspenders.  However, even if my second theory IS correct, it still makes no sense to me how the reference applies.  Maybe the term, "Fairweather Christian" actually means something else(?).

[GunClick Rick]

In the old days a christian feller usually a baptist would get duded up and to break the ice with a purty gal he would walk over and say"tickle your a** with a feather??? The gal would turn and exclaim"what did you say"!???

"I say,perticurlaly nice weather,miss? And may i have this dance?~~In which she would reply,"wy yes you may soldier'"

In other words i have no idea

But its a good question and a term i have never heard.Cool avitar~

[Curley Cole]

I made this rig for a double crossdraw for my 75 Remingtons. I patterned it after the belt that Frank James wore commonly refered to as the FairWeather Christian belt.

From Packin Iron page 43 they said "Multi looped belts for metalic catridges were not formally adopted by the military until 1876 they were in unifical use among the western troops fro a decade previous and no doubt originated during the Cival War. Some times refered to as thimble belts or Fair Weather Christian belts. These early belts differed consideralby in pattern, usually constructed of bridle wheigt leather, and most secured with a military belt plate.

The cartidge loops were what were called the thimbles and there is a pix of one on page 44.

Mine I chose to not have the loops as I placed a pouch on the back. I use it in my Indian Wars Scout rig.

curley

[buckskin billy]

i have always just assumed that mr. fairweather and sister christain got together and design the belt and it was given that name in there honor 

very nice rig there curley cole. i really like that alot. i say that as i wipe the drool from my chin.

did you sew a round toe plug in? kind of looks round from the picture

[Curley Cole]

 
Billy

Here is a pix of me wearin the rig. And altho I designed the rig, I have been long since unable to do the leatherwork, due to the raveges of arthritis. So My friend Paul Combest of RedDog Leather in Kentucky did the work. I always leave the tooling to his creativity..(and he never fails me) He took the pattern from the inside cover of Packin Iron.

It does look like it should have a toe plug, and indeed the rigs I have that Will Ghromley made do have them, but this one does not have them. They still are pretty fine holsters, and get lots of style points when I wear them.
curley

[Chaa Duu Ba Its Iidan]

In the old days a christian feller usually a baptist would get duded up and to break the ice with a purty gal he would walk over and say"tickle your a** with a feather??? The gal would turn and exclaim"what did you say"!???

"I say,perticurlaly nice weather,miss? And may i have this dance?~~In which she would reply,"wy yes you may soldier'"

In other words i have no idea

But its a good question and a term i have never heard.Cool avitar~

Well, now, while that didn't answer my question, it does make me wonder how many cowboys actuallly had a death wish!

I actually did hear something very much like that this last Saturday at our club's Summer Saturday shoot.  I couldn't believe what this one character said to one of our lady club members.  We were at the loading table.  She just looked at me in disbelief.  I said, "shoot him!"   Fortunately for him, she didn't.  Like I said, death wish.....her bein' at the loading table, she had ten rounds in her pistols.....besides the rifle and her '97.

[Chaa Duu Ba Its Iidan]

Those rigs you guys made are very cool!  Wish I could do that, but maybe someday I'll come close.

I'm gathering together a few tools, contemplating what leather to get, and trying to gather enough intel here to do the job right and then I'll give it a shot trying to put together a rig.  I could probably save about half just by buying a nice SASS rig.  'Course then, I'd have one like everyone else's.  Not that that's bad, but I want to try doing it myself.  Right now I have a pieced together outfit.

Anyway, I'd sure like to know about this "Fairweather Christian" gun belt thing.

[Kid Terico]

Curley  really nice picture.KT

[JD Alan]

As an Evangelical pastor I asked that same question when I started with this group a couple of years ago. Then I did some independent research and I think I can safely say this: No definitive answer exists.

You can read lots of speculation; some stated as absolute fact, but I've not been able to nail down a satisfactory  answer. I've read some interesting ideas, and any one of them may be true. I have a feeling it got it's genesis from a situation not unlike what you've desbribed

Just my 2 cents, plus a question: Do you have a nic name or shorter handle that people could use?  JD

[Curley Cole]

Old Top recalled reading about this subject on another thread and fowarded it to me. The quote below is from our good friend Sir Harry Flashman, who we don't hear from much anymore:

The "Thimble Belt' has Spring Steele clips revited to the belt into which the cartidges were snapped into place & then be snapped straight out, instead of having to Drawn up & out as w/ a normal "Looped" cartridge belt.
It's "Fairweather-Christian", as in the name of two field officers from the early 1870's who were known to wear them after having post Saddlers make one for them to replace the cartridge boxs for use in the field.


and here is the link to the whole discussion that appeared in the Barracks  section. I hope it helps some. I actually went back and reread the whole thread (and I remember reading it with great interest when it first surfaced,) and it actually does not really answer the question fully, so I guess we have to just keep asking..

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=18563.0

enjoy

Curley

[St. George]

The nomenclature of 'Fairweather-Christian' seems to refer to the two designers of the belt - but in all of the extensive the references I have dealing with period cartridge belts and militaria - the tale goes no further, since the belt was merely experimental, and since the advent of the .50 Caliber Sharps Cartridge Conversion of 1867-1869, much of the Cavalry was wearing a loop-styled belt, with a Model 1851 Belt Plate as closure, and adjustment loop from a Civil War sling hook.

Soon after,  the Model 1876 Cartridge Belt (Prairie Belt) was adopted.

No complete names, units of assignment or duty stations are referenced.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[JD Alan]

Frankly this explanation of using name of the designers makes a lot more sense to me than nominal Christians wearing them.

[DUKE DEADEYE NUKEM]

Nice leather work.

[Chaa Duu Ba Its Iidan]

Hey,
I want to say "thanks" to you guys for shedding some light on this question for me.  While it occured to me that the name might just have nothing to do with religion, it didn't occur to me that the name might simply be the names of the original designers (sort of) of the belt.

J D Alan:  tEN wOLVES just uses my initials, CDBII, which I am good with.  It is shorter and easier to spell.  Also , J D, thanks for your input.  I think, as I keep looking, I'll find consensus with the thinking that the terminology for the belt comes from joint designers, rather than any religious reference.

Curley Cole, we might have to catch up to you and snatch that nice rig of yours! 'Course then we'd be wrasslin' around to see who got what!   I really like your rig and I wonder if you can give us a better look at each piece(?)......the holster I can see okay and I'd like to get a better look at your bowie knife sheath and ammunition box/pouch.  Also, thanks for your input on the subject matter, too.  I guess I need to kick myself for not having a copy of Packing Iron.  I'll fix that today!  Curley, I'm going to go read that thread you linked in for us.  Thanks

And thank you, too St. George for adding in agreement regarding the designers' names being the origin of the name of the style of gun belt.

I'll dig a bit more and if I find something new that makes sense or something new that supports what we think is probably the right answer, I'll post it here.
Aidios

[GunClick Rick]

Chaa Duu Ba Its Iidan

if you do you gotta clean it up

[Curley Cole]

Chaa
Thanks fer the good words. Here is another shot of the rig, I will have to get a shot of the knife sheath..I don't see  one in my web page (http://sdough.smugmug.com) ifn yer interested in photography.
The rig was basicly to be made around the officers buckle that I bought at the Harvest Festival in SB . The whole outfit started from that buckle, and now more recent additions are wool army cavalry pants, and a pair of good black boots, I need to update my pictures..
good shootin

curley

[Curley Cole]

Here is a shot of the knife sheath and the ball pouch. I sent him an outline of the Jacobs Bowie and told him how I wanted to hold it in place, and this is how it came out. Knife fits like a glove. I didn't give him any specs for the pouch except for basic size.
I think it is a good rig. (oh and I also had him make me an extra left hand strong side incase I want to shoot at a match that is hinky about double crossdraw. altho I haven't run into any problems anywhere yet)

Hope ya like the rig

curley

[GunClick Rick]

Cool stuff Curley

[Curley Cole]

here is a shot I found showin the backs of the holsters.

Thank ya Ricky

There's more holes in it than should be but I kept loosin weight after I got the belt...guess I could get a shorter one..

cc

[Chaa Duu Ba Its Iidan]

Curley,
I really do like the whole setup you have there.  Everything is just first class!  The holsters, ball pouch, that bowie knife sheath and of course, the belt.  I have a Civil War officer's buckle like that that I got many years ago.  I have it on a plain, black belt right now.  That rig of yours is a terrific design.  Thanks for sharing those pictures with us.