1849 Colt 38S&W conversion

[Smokin Gun]

I just had to share this original Colt I just bought...thought y'all would enjoy some pics of it...


It was love at first site :O)

[Shotgun Franklin]

If I ever get some extra money I'd like a '49 clone converted to .38 S&W. It would be a for sure neat gun BUT not as neat as an original.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

LUV those grips!

[Advertising]

[Montana Slim]

Model 1849 ..... in 38SW ??

Am I readin' this correct?

Slim

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Yes you were READING correctly, but you are right to question it.

From page 351 of COLT CONVERSIONS..., Bruce McDowell;

"Model 1862 3 1/2 Inch Round "S" Lug Cartridge Barrel Revolver."

The "31" on the left side of the trigger guard should have an "8" stamped over the "1". They were made using left-over 1849 & 1862 parts with NEW cartridge parts.  They were not actually conversions, as they left the factory as cartridge revolvers.  Serial numbers were mostly from the range 275000 - 330000.  Some were made up in the 4-digit range. The new parts are numbered to the frames.  Cylinders were either from pocket navies, or newly manufactured.  They are found in rimfire and centerfire.  ( I suspect .38 COLT, rather than S&W.)

P.S.  I still LUV the grips!

[pony express]

I would love to have a pair like that. Taylors at one time listed a .38 Short Colt conversion cylinder, but then when I had bought a couple of Pocket Navies, the ad was gone! R&D said they didn't make one, maybe the Taylors ad was a misprint?

[Smokin Gun]

Nope Sir Charles deMouton-Black  it is a .38 S&W CF cartridge ... if ya think about it a .38Colt would be longer than a
pocket Colt Clylinder ... I have that 38spl/38colt conversion in my 1861 Navy...the 1849 Pocket cylinder is about like the Iver Johnson 2nd Model 1894-1895 I just got in .38S&W...like the model No. 2 Smith &Wesson .38CF.
My Original Colt .38CF has the 4 digit sn 1006 in the grip/frame and also a 7 or 8 digit SN on the other parts, with last four on                        cylinder...will try diggin' up a pic of them numbers.
Here's the detailed pics of the Colt I bought...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=174654469

and here's the Iver Johnson I jus' got...like the moel No. 2 S&W .38CF
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=175172079

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Smokin' Gun;  I am not lucky, or wealthy enough to one more than one original Colt, an 1896 vintage SAA in 38 WCF (refinished and well used)

As no one else chipped in, I dug out my Cartridges of the World, 3d Ed. and McDowell's book which was a present from my kids a few years back.  Very interesting book.  I yield to your actual possession of the piece and you can say if a 38 S&W fits.  I was speculating based on McDowell, that Colt likely made these revolvers in either 38 Short rf, or later in 38 SHORT Colt cf.  What happens after sale to a customer is beyond anyone's control.  I will give a few cartridge dimensions for you to chew over;

38 S&W;               bullet .359 neck .386 base .386 rim .423 case l. .78 oal 1.20

.38SC/.380 revolver;        .375        .377         .380      .426          .70      1.10  (Colt based their round on the Brit. .380 rev.)

.38 short rf;                    .375        .376         .376      .436          .768     1.185

Note that  38 S&W is inside lubed with a .359 bullet.  The other two take  .375 heeled bullets, and both are slightly shorter than the .38 S&W.

You make the call.  I'm only reading a book.

P.P.S;   I still LUV the grips!

[Smokin Gun]

Sir Charles deMouton-Black ...dang internet progress. I surely din't mean anything near what I sorta jus' read into.
Sorry if I said something to offend you or anyone.
 

[Smokin Gun]

I missed somethin' I think ... did I say something wrong?

[Smokin Gun]

It takes a .361 bullet so I've read...so it's larger than .358x.38Colt and short like a Pocket Colt. I  jus' gotta order brass...and some lead round noze bullets.

Them grips did catch my eye...the Naked Lady and on the other side is a Zouave Soldier.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Not at all.  I hope you can get that old girl talkin'.

You you think anyone will make those grips available?

[Smokin Gun]

Maybe these Folk would do somethin' like that if anyone. They may have a paticular make/model in stock even. Heard good things about them.

http://www.gripmaker.com/

or Tombstone Grips...

[Smokin Gun]

They were not actually conversions, as they left the factory as cartridge revolvers.  Serial numbers were mostly from the range 275000 - 330000.  Some were made up in the 4-digit range. The new parts are numbered to the frames.  Cylinders were either from pocket navies, or newly manufactured.  They are found in rimfire and centerfire.  ( I suspect .38 COLT, rather than S&W.)

Sir Charles you suspected correctly...it's 38Colt, 38spl, or 38S&W ... it jus' came today.

Comparing the cylinderr lentghs of this Colt to the Iver J. in .38S&W

[Story]

Smokin' Gun,
Would it not be prudent to err on the side of caution and chose the smallest of the cartridges that *fit* - the .38 S&W?*
Furthermore, what does the front of the barrel look like - where the loading lever used to be fitted?
Can you entertain us with a photo or two of that perspective?
Story

PS - are my eyes correct, this pistol lacks a loading gate?

*
Amended - so the .38 Short Colt is even weaker than the .38 S&W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Short_Colt
The .38 short colt was originally a heeled bullet cartridge intended for cartridge conversions of the .36 cal cap & ball revolvers from the American Civil War-era.

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special
Cartridge↓         Bullet weight↓    Muzzle velocity↓            Muzzle energy↓        Max pressure↓
.38 Short Colt  135 gr (8.7 g)    777 ft/s (237 m/s)    181 ft·lbf (245 J)    7,500 CUP
.38 Long Colt    150 gr (9.7 g)    777 ft/s (237 m/s)    201 ft·lbf (273 J)    12,000 CUP
.38 S&W          158 gr (10.2 g)    767 ft/s (234 m/s)    206 ft·lbf (279 J)    14,500 PSI

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

As this was a newly made barrel there will not be any fittings for a loading lever.  I'll lay odds that the barrel groove diameter will be .375, not .361.

P.S;  I mean that these barrels were newly made for these revolvers, not converted from in-stock parts.

From the collectorsfirearms site;

""Colt Conversion of a pocket Navy. Very hard to find a nice blue and case colored example. Has the 3 1/2" barrel made as a cartridge barrel rather than the percussion barrel with the plugged up rammer hole. As these pocket conversions go this blue and case colored example is very desirable.  $2,195.00
see photos Item# C5883 Request Info""

[Story]

As this was a newly made barrel there will not be any fittings for a loading lever.  I'll lay odds that the barrel diameter will be .375, not .361.

Newly made?   His original post says that it's an original... which were both plugged-up & specially-made for the .38CF
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Colt-323548.htm
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/show_inventory.php?catID=13&subcatID=153



Interesting serial number(s)
http://proofhouse.com/colt/index.html


Smokin' Gun, any way you cut it, you did very very well.
Model 1862 Police & Pocket Navy
Circa 1873-1880. Calibers .38 rim fire & center fire, serials from 1-19000, and from high serials of the Model 1849 Pocket, and from generally high serials from the (percussion) Model 1862 Police and Pocket Navy. Variety of barrel lengths and cylinder styles.
Total production about 25,000.

Furthermore, I'd hazard this figure is a Roman warrior.

-- based on this original
http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1290&aid=16712&lid=4450896&aiid=1#topoflot
 
Smokin' Gun, any way you cut it, I think you did very well. You might want to get a Colt letter done up on that, those grips *may* be originals. Best to get it checked out over here - http://coltforum.com/forums/

[Long Johns Wolf]

Sir Charles & the campfire: I fitted such a grip to one of my Uberti SAA's. They are from www.gripmaker.com
Long Johns Wolf

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Thanks LJW;

[Smokin Gun]

Thanks Story ... This is a Colt Hartford Conneticut Fatory made cart gun all Colt made from excess 1849 and 1862 Pocket
police Revs ...assembled and fitted by Colt under two Patents 1871, 1872...a .58 HBWC slieds down the barrel but a better fit than a replica. I doubt if all total differant year Pat.s there were 4,000 to 6,000 made...this particular one I'm not sure yet.
Go see more info if ya like as alort was posted on my forum BPR (see signature)

Thanks for all the info as I'll take gladly all I can get.
The Grips that's a Zouave Soldier and a naked lady ... a real nice set of grips and ratyher old but not originals.

SG